Josh Smith

[Deleted]

No, no, no.

[James Kay]

Yeah, I'm afraid I have to agree with Billy on this one. He's just in no way deserving of an 87.

Not to bring up Ibaka again, but there is no fucking way to justify J Smoove being FIVE POINTS ABOVE IBAKA.

J. Smith is shooting:

2013 46% and 51%
2014 42% and 56%

He is horrendous from both the line and the field. The dude is super athletic and could be great if he stopped shooting like an asshole, but he continues to drown out the advice of advanced metrics and chuck enough bricks to build a new stadium.

I say 82.

I'll say 84.

[Deleted]

You guys are WAYYYYYYYYYYYY off! I just don't get the logic, we make Earl Clark a 76 when he averages 5 and 3 but want to lower Josh Smith when he averages 16 and 7? Maybe the answer to this problem constitutes RAISING IBAKA LIKE I HAVE BEEN SAYING FOR YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ibaka: 15/9/2.5 (blk)/.5(stl)/1(asst)
JSmith: 16/7/1.5(blk)/2(stl)/3.5(asst)

They are comparable but I think Josh Smith is still a better overall player. I would say leave Josh Smith at an 87 and make Ibaka an 85, but I could see lowering Smith to an 85. Therefore, Mr. King, I think you should edit this threat and turn it into a "raise Serge Ibaka" instead of trying to beat up on poor ole's Smith. Besides, even if you wanted to lower, he's been super productive in the past and people don't usually get lowered THAT MUCH that quickly unless they just fall off the face of the earth. Like I said, I could respect lowering Smith to an 85.

[James Kay]

Oh, don't get me wrong, I think that the Earl Clark rating change was incredibly stupid.

Maybe I was too harsh with my 82, as he has shown the ability to be very productive. I'll modify my suggestion to 84.

Either way, Ibaka is very much the better player right now.

Both of them pull up for a mid-range, who do you want taking the shot? Ibaka.

Who do you want defending the paint? Ibaka.

Who would you rather see on the stripe? Ibaka.

Josh Smith seems much more productive in active/athletic stats like assists and steals, though. So that somewhat makes up for his terrible terrible shooting. 56 percent is so fucking bad. 51 percent just the year before, too. That's Dwight Howard level. But again, there's more than just shooting, he contributes across the board and always has.

However, some of your numbers don't really seem accurate. This is what I see:

Josh Smith
2013

1.2 steals
1.8 blocks

2014
1.7 steals
1.4 blocks

Anyway, Ibaka most definitely deserves a raise and Josh Smith... I'll say 84.

[Deleted]

Feb 16, 2014 0:17:59 GMT James Kay said:

Oh, don't get me wrong, I think that the Earl Clark rating change was incredibly stupid.

Maybe I was too harsh with my 82, as he has shown the ability to be very productive. I'll modify my suggestion to 84.

Either way, Ibaka is very much the better player right now.

Both of them pull up for a mid-range, who do you want taking the shot? Ibaka.

Who do you want defending the paint? Ibaka.

Who would you rather see on the stripe? Ibaka.

Josh Smith seems much more productive in active/athletic stats like assists and steals, though. So that somewhat makes up for his terrible terrible shooting. 56 percent is so fucking bad. 51 percent just the year before, too. That's Dwight Howard level. But again, there's more than just shooting, he contributes across the board and always has.

However, some of your numbers don't really seem accurate. This is what I see:

Josh Smith
2013

1.2 steals
1.8 blocks

2014
1.7 steals
1.4 blocks

Anyway, Ibaka most definitely deserves a raise and Josh Smith... I'll say 84.

I can respect that and I will aid you in your righteous quest to help get a raise Ibaka, but let me ask you some questions.

Who would you rather have guarding Lebron James? Josh Smith

Who has better hands to finish around the basket? Josh Smith

Who can at least pretend to play SF due to offensive skill? Josh Smith

[Jeremiah Hill]

We can't forget that Smith is the reason they are terrible because he can't space the floor so there are essentially just 6 guys right under the basket at all times.

[Deleted]

Feb 16, 2014 1:50:11 GMT Jeremiah Hill said:

We can't forget that Smith is the reason they are terrible because he can't space the floor so there are essentially just 6 guys right under the basket at all times.

Neither can Drummond and Monroe? Josh may not be a SF but don't kill his rating because of that.

[Deleted]

Just for the record, I vote to keep him at an 87.

[James Kay]

Feb 16, 2014 0:17:59 GMT James Kay said:

Oh, don't get me wrong, I think that the Earl Clark rating change was incredibly stupid.

Maybe I was too harsh with my 82, as he has shown the ability to be very productive. I'll modify my suggestion to 84.

Either way, Ibaka is very much the better player right now.

Both of them pull up for a mid-range, who do you want taking the shot? Ibaka.

Who do you want defending the paint? Ibaka.

Who would you rather see on the stripe? Ibaka.

Josh Smith seems much more productive in active/athletic stats like assists and steals, though. So that somewhat makes up for his terrible terrible shooting. 56 percent is so fucking bad. 51 percent just the year before, too. That's Dwight Howard level. But again, there's more than just shooting, he contributes across the board and always has.

However, some of your numbers don't really seem accurate. This is what I see:

Josh Smith
2013

1.2 steals
1.8 blocks

2014
1.7 steals
1.4 blocks

Anyway, Ibaka most definitely deserves a raise and Josh Smith... I'll say 84.

Very fair points. I just think that his shooting is too poor to justify 87.

[Blake Bowman]

89, he's underrated.

[Blake Bowman]

Feb 16, 2014 4:19:38 GMT Andrei Kirilenko said:

this buffoon shoots 42% on the season. 23% from three! he's definitely not an 89

Based on Billy's suggested 82, I thought we were pulling random numbers out of our asses. My 89 was an outlier to allow the average rating to be more realistic and to take Billy's Tom PETTY and the Heartbreakers rating suggestion with a grain of salt. Smith being lowered is one thing, but an 82 is the joke rating of Jameer Nelson. Smith doesn't fit in the Detroit system, he's better than his shooting and is still a great defensive player. #OutliersForTheWin!! #89IsABadExampleOfAnOutlierThough

[Walt Frazier]

Honestly, some people in here are really bad at rating changes.

You want to make hasty decisions on guys that shouldn't have hasty decisions made (say, someone in his 9th year in the league, age 29, pretty proven guy who has been who he is for a long time, but has a rough 2 months and you want to make a big change)...yea, OK.

I'm sorry guys but, Josh Smith is on a new team, pressure of a new contract, and isn't being used correctly. That's not his fault.

On top of that, after his rough, transition first 2 months in Detroit, the last two months he has shot 45.2%, 17.8 ppg, 8 rpg, 4.2 apg, 2 spg, 1.5 bpg

FG% has gone up every month this season, no, he can not shoot a 3 pt shot and I don't know why the helllll he shoots so many a game!, and his FT shot is F'd up (the best it's EVER been though was 72.5, a lot of other 50's and 60's for %'s in his career).

Anything lower than an 85 is ridiculous IMO.

- He's a career 46% shooter, and as I said, after an adjustment period, he's now shooting 45.2%.
- He scores 15.4 in his career, he's at 16 this season and about 18 after his adjustment period.
- He's an 8rpg guy in his career, same over the last two months.
- He's a 3.2 apg guy in his career, this season he's at 3.5, and last two months he's at 4.2.
- He has never been a good 3pt guy, so not sure why that's being brought up as far as his rating (his talent there has not changed, he's just taking more but that doesn't affect his rating IMO)...
- His FT% for his career is under 65%, again, has never been good, now at 56.4% this season.
- 2.1 bpg in his career, which is inflated from his first few years, but he's at 1.4 this season, still very good for a non-big man
-1.3 spg in his career, actually upped it this season to 1.7, and last 2 months up to 2.0 spg


So...I guess lower his FT shooting if you really want, he's actually improved his passing and steals, could lower his blocks a little but he's very close to his last 3 seasons (1.5, 1.7, 1.8 in the last 3 seasons, and again he's at 1.5 the last two months so...)

He's definitely had a rough start but, considering the signs are pointing upwards, and even in that rough start he's made some improvements as well as a few minor decreases, I would just leave him where he is right now. Again, he's 29 years old, not 35, give him more time to adjust one way or the other in Detroit.

Edit: To be Clear, my rating is 87 for now.

[Deleted]

By the way, he is actually 28!

[Glenn Robinson]

I could see the argument of lowering him a tad bit, but I really don't see the point right now.

He is a PF trying to play SF in a crowded front court. If Monroe gets dealt at the deadline and Smith moves back to his natural position, he could turn things around. Until then, I'd rather not see anymore hasty rating changes being flung around.

[Brian Scalabrine]

Id go with an 83. He is for sure having a terrible season but has shown in the past to be a fringe all star player

[Jeremiah Hill]

I'm not overreacting to anything. Steals and blocks are one thing, people can use them to show someone is good on defense but I can show you Kyrie Irving who averages good steal numbers but is terrible on defense. Look at other 16-18ppg PFs who don't shoot 3s 46% is a terrible FG% for a powerforward who doesn't shoot 3s. He isn't a 3 point shooter, yet he has consistently taken them throughout his career. The guy isn't as good as his athleticism could have taken him. If that overall is primarily based on his athletic abilities fine. But if not it makes no sense for him to be rated this highly. He doesn't fit in this system, fine but he's not really playing any worse than he was as pointed out by Walt.he should never have been rated that highly to begin with. 83 from me.

[Shane Battier]

83. I can't really understand why Josh Smith keeps on hoisting three pointers

[Mike Krzyzewski]

82

[Alex English]

He has the talent. But also the worst shot selection of all time. I'd say 84.

[Allen Iverson]

83-84 as well.

[Deleted]

I think new GM's should only get a half a vote or something; this is ridiculous! You guys are bitching about 16/7/3/1.5/1.5 when there are players with better ratings and worse stats!?!?!? I don't get it.

[Deleted]

I am fixing to change it Billy Baby, just give me some time...it takes Ian years to do this anyways. Besides, why are you trying to decrease my ratings so bad?

[Deleted]

For Billy's viewing enjoyed since he said no one thinks he should be over an 84!

Feb 16, 2014 1:44:41 GMT Andrei Kirilenko said:

I'll agree that he's not an 87 anymore. Detroit's frontcourt has been one of the worst in the league this season on defense, which is mainly due to Monroe and Drummond being terrible, but Smith has to take some blame as well.

I don't think he should drop that much though, definitely not an 82. I'll vote 85

Feb 16, 2014 4:06:47 GMT Blake Bowman said:

89, he's underrated.

Feb 16, 2014 6:23:28 GMT Walt Frazier said:

Honestly, some people in here are really bad at rating changes.

You want to make hasty decisions on guys that shouldn't have hasty decisions made (say, someone in his 9th year in the league, age 29, pretty proven guy who has been who he is for a long time, but has a rough 2 months and you want to make a big change)...yea, OK.

I'm sorry guys but, Josh Smith is on a new team, pressure of a new contract, and isn't being used correctly. That's not his fault.

On top of that, after his rough, transition first 2 months in Detroit, the last two months he has shot 45.2%, 17.8 ppg, 8 rpg, 4.2 apg, 2 spg, 1.5 bpg

FG% has gone up every month this season, no, he can not shoot a 3 pt shot and I don't know why the helllll he shoots so many a game!, and his FT shot is F'd up (the best it's EVER been though was 72.5, a lot of other 50's and 60's for %'s in his career).

Anything lower than an 85 is ridiculous IMO.

- He's a career 46% shooter, and as I said, after an adjustment period, he's now shooting 45.2%.
- He scores 15.4 in his career, he's at 16 this season and about 18 after his adjustment period.
- He's an 8rpg guy in his career, same over the last two months.
- He's a 3.2 apg guy in his career, this season he's at 3.5, and last two months he's at 4.2.
- He has never been a good 3pt guy, so not sure why that's being brought up as far as his rating (his talent there has not changed, he's just taking more but that doesn't affect his rating IMO)...
- His FT% for his career is under 65%, again, has never been good, now at 56.4% this season.
- 2.1 bpg in his career, which is inflated from his first few years, but he's at 1.4 this season, still very good for a non-big man
-1.3 spg in his career, actually upped it this season to 1.7, and last 2 months up to 2.0 spg


So...I guess lower his FT shooting if you really want, he's actually improved his passing and steals, could lower his blocks a little but he's very close to his last 3 seasons (1.5, 1.7, 1.8 in the last 3 seasons, and again he's at 1.5 the last two months so...)

He's definitely had a rough start but, considering the signs are pointing upwards, and even in that rough start he's made some improvements as well as a few minor decreases, I would just leave him where he is right now. Again, he's 29 years old, not 35, give him more time to adjust one way or the other in Detroit.

Edit: To be Clear, my rating is 87 for now.

Feb 16, 2014 16:48:47 GMT Glenn Robinson said:

I could see the argument of lowering him a tad bit, but I really don't see the point right now.

He is a PF trying to play SF in a crowded front court. If Monroe gets dealt at the deadline and Smith moves back to his natural position, he could turn things around. Until then, I'd rather not see anymore hasty rating changes being flung around.

PS. You should vote Glenn!

[Chris Mullin]

84