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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Feb 10, 2014 20:50:46 GMT
As a Cavs fan I agree with this entirely. If there is a rating option for how likely a guy is to shoot 27 times and only make 5 of them and lose a game go ahead and put that up to 99 though.
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Magic Johnson
Former Lakers GM
Sophomore
Posts: 458
Feb 27, 2024 20:39:01 GMT
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Post by Magic Johnson on Feb 10, 2014 20:59:32 GMT
I think that's harsh saying K. Irving not a top 10 PG anymore, now should he take a hit ratings wise I'd say yeah 83 would be correct. His defense is poor and his leadership and passing needs to improve.
In his defense though you cannot blame him for his idiotic teammates (outside Varejao/Deng) you have a good player nothing special in Thompson and two busts in Waiters and Bennett.
J. Jack is a shoot first PG and E. Clark massive disappointment.
So by default although however inefficient he may be K. Irving really has no choice but to chuck 30 shots a game every night just to be competitive and have a chance to win.
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Feb 10, 2014 21:21:22 GMT
Dion Waiters is the only player on that team that actually makes his team mates better, I've watched all but like 3 games this season, the other players actually cut when they play with Waiters because he can will actually pass the ball when people cut. Whereas Kyrie doesn't and will try and shoot a layup over 3 people because he thinks he's Allen Iverson. The only reason we are ever in games is because the second lineup of Mathew Dellavedova and Waiters who are both willing passers and it opens everyone up and they play defense.
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Feb 10, 2014 21:21:52 GMT
I would say it's an insult to other point guards that he was ever even in the top 10 discussion to begin with.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Feb 11, 2014 1:28:18 GMT
In his brief career, he has shot 46.9, 45.2, and this year 42.8%. His usage went up from year 1 to 2 (so did his minutes so not a huge usage jump, but still notable), so I'm not sure why his shooting has slumped this year and not last year.
If you want to bash his negatives this year, let's also note that his assists have gone up while his TO's have gone down, so he is also making some improvements statistically.
I'm still pretty comfortable with him at an 85. How many guys in the league score 21+, 6+ ast, 1+ stl, almost 2 3's a game, and shoot 85% from the line?
As far as I'm concerned this 48 game sample of FG% is the outlier compared to his other 110 games where he shot about 46%.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Feb 11, 2014 1:31:35 GMT
Also, PG Rankings IMO...
CP3: 94-95 Rose: 92/93 Westbrook: 92 Curry: 89/90 Deron: 88 Parker: 87/88 Rondo: 87/88 Nash: 81
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Feb 11, 2014 1:48:46 GMT
He's got all the talent in the world, but it says something that with a vastly improved roster he still hasn't translated it into any wins. He plays defense like Steve Nash but doesn't have the Steve Nash ability that ups the offensive production of every player on the team. He has that potential but he's not there yet. You only need to look at the way that every time they have a lead in the 4th they insert Kyrie and they immediately give it up because he brings no offensive flow and really bad defense. Every PG that goes against him seems to have a career night. DJ Augustine had like 40 points against him, the backup Grizzlies PG is someone I've never even heard of and he played well last night. He is hype defined.
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Post by James Kay on Feb 11, 2014 3:08:29 GMT
Also, PG Rankings IMO... CP3: 94-95 Rose: 92/93 Westbrook: 92 Curry: 89/90 Deron: 88 Parker: 87/88 Rondo: 87/88 Nash: 81 How you gonna put Rose that high? Rose hasn't played at a 93 in two years! I know there's no injuries in this league, but I don't see how he stays that high.
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Feb 11, 2014 3:11:11 GMT
I'm trying to figure out how he has Rose, Deron Williams and Steph Curry over Tony Parker.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Feb 11, 2014 4:34:57 GMT
Tony Parker is great at some things but rating wise, no 3pt shot, no steals...I dunno he starts to take a big hit there. I have all those guys in a virtual dead heat btw, you guys get so antsy over a point or two.
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Feb 11, 2014 4:40:09 GMT
Eh, I was thinking real life rankings than game rankings.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Feb 12, 2014 4:16:49 GMT
Fair enough. Also I could definitely see Deron as an 87 as well, those are not firm ratings for me as I understand certain ratings need to be at certain levels for some of these players, but overall those guys are on a similar talent level to me, and I do believe Curry is better as an overall skillset.
As for Rose, guy just hasn't played, which sucks, obviously. But, he's 25, and the last time we saw him play he was pretty amazing. If he was rated an 84 before, I wouldn't be asking for a boost to a 93, but he already earned his 93 (or something like that) and I don't think that simply not playing, at this point, is worth a decrease.
It is worrisome though, and once he does come back, if he looks very rough after a month or two, then a big decrease could be in the cards.
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Feb 12, 2014 4:24:13 GMT
I think that Rose looked decent in the few games he did get in this season though, obviously there was a metric ton of rust on him but he didn't seem to have lost much, just his finishing and shooting weren't crisp like they were before but that's to be expected.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Feb 12, 2014 4:30:56 GMT
Right I agree, still a crazy SSS so hard to judge, but that does play into my point that it's hard to drop him just b/c he's injured. If he plays poorly, even while injured, there is at least room to question, but it's still too early to tell until at least a couple months after he is "back" from injury.
So, I'd basically just keep him where he is, the rating he earned in his healthy seasons.
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Post by Clyde Drexler on Feb 13, 2014 13:55:06 GMT
Yeah he should just be kept at an 85 for now IMO
I do think that Wall should be rated equal to Kyrie though
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