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Post by Charles Barkley on Jul 19, 2014 7:12:44 GMT
I know for a fact that when Tyson Chandler left Dallas their defense suffered a lot and they missed the playoffs (albeit with some help from a Dirk injury) Because the center is one of the most important pieces in a defense. You are also picking and choosing what you are refuting. I already told you it's not the be all end all its just a contributing factor. Low defensive stats, both the obvious ones (BLKs, Steals) the Advance stuff like Drtg and DWS his overall team success on the defensive end, none of that adds up to him being even average big man on the defensive end. And there is no one who could argue that it is. Also if his coach for the past few years doesn't teach defense then one could assume that the people who he was teaching would be bad on the defensive end. Which is exactly what I'm saying. He also plays ABOVE his real life statistical output in the SIM engine. So there is nothing to complain about. If it's more of just bitching about the ranking then I still don't think that holds water because he's maybe a top 15 Center in the NBA which isn't saying much and I'm pretty sure out of starting big men he's right there in those terms even with our ranking. A. Show how you know Dallas' defense suffered a lot. B. Center being the most important part of a defense is an opinion. C. I'm not picking and choosing what I am refuting, I refuted your whole previous statement. D. Never said I was arguing about Pek and his defense, in fact, I believe I said that I conceded that already, so again, I concede that point. E. I was unaware I was complaining about anything. I was trying to get Pek a rating increase by saying the difference in his stats vs Al Jefferson's wasn't 7 OVR Rating Points in my opinion. And then after our conversation, I wondered about that with a lot of big men. F. I'm not bitching about anything. And another thing Jeremiah, did you know the Timberwolves were 11th in team DRtg and 10th in RDtg/A? So what does that mean? Does that mean that Pek is a top 10 defensive center? or top 11? No, it doesn't. Because its a team rating, but maybe it doesn't mean that he isn't poop on the defensive end. Truth is Jeremiah, you don't know what I am doing with these numbers yet because I haven't done anything with them yet. There's no need to sit there and swear at me about it. I'm allowed to post what I'd like to post. It really seems like you didn't read what I had wrote earlier in this thread, because if you did, you wouldn't be sitting there telling me this stuff. Instead, you may have done what I had asked, and that was to tell me who was better based off of their past performances this year, D12 or Boogie? But nope, come in here telling me about Pekovic. |
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Post by Charles Barkley on Jul 19, 2014 7:28:42 GMT
Also only 5 people can be on the court at one time so that terrible team ranking is at least a 5th his fault. This assumes he played all the minutes possible in every game of the season. Which he didn't, so your estimation of one fifth is false. |
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Post by Charles Barkley on Aug 4, 2014 21:46:07 GMT
I would like to bump this. There's a lot of Bigs in the league that are rated higher, much higher in some cases, and didn't have the stats Pek did. 17.5 and 9 on 54% shooting is a lot better than an 81 IMO.
There's a lot of comparisons I can make but, David West is being bumped to an 84 on 14 and 7 with 2 assists more than Pek averages.
I feel that there is a big bias against Pekovic and I don't really understand it. The guy had a really good year, players are being raised above him that didn't have the production he did, and others sit much higher than him with the same stats.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Aug 5, 2014 0:31:30 GMT
83 on Pekovic for me.
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Post by James Kay on Aug 5, 2014 3:43:31 GMT
I would like to bump this. There's a lot of Bigs in the league that are rated higher, much higher in some cases, and didn't have the stats Pek did. 17.5 and 9 on 54% shooting is a lot better than an 81 IMO. There's a lot of comparisons I can make but, David West is being bumped to an 84 on 14 and 7 with 2 assists more than Pek averages. I feel that there is a big bias against Pekovic and I don't really understand it. The guy had a really good year, players are being raised above him that didn't have the production he did, and others sit much higher than him with the same stats. Well part of it is that he's a humongous black hole on defense. I also think a lot of 5s could average that given the role Pek was, and paired with a player of Kevin Love's caliber and ability. I guess 17.5 is a lot of points though... But still his defense |
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Post by Charles Barkley on Aug 5, 2014 5:22:54 GMT
I would like to bump this. There's a lot of Bigs in the league that are rated higher, much higher in some cases, and didn't have the stats Pek did. 17.5 and 9 on 54% shooting is a lot better than an 81 IMO. There's a lot of comparisons I can make but, David West is being bumped to an 84 on 14 and 7 with 2 assists more than Pek averages. I feel that there is a big bias against Pekovic and I don't really understand it. The guy had a really good year, players are being raised above him that didn't have the production he did, and others sit much higher than him with the same stats. Well part of it is that he's a humongous black hole on defense. I also think a lot of 5s could average that given the role Pek was, and paired with a player of Kevin Love's caliber and ability. I guess 17.5 is a lot of points though... But still his defense His defense is largely a factor of a lot of things. I'm not saying the dude is Marc or Joakim in the paint, but how's Love's post defense? Adelman has never stressed blocks as much as DREB, his system has always been about rebounds and steals creating fast breaks. No one on that team is really known for their defense, maybe Brewer, but thats about it. Rubio gets 2.3 steals a game, yet no one praises his defense. You can't just say Pek's defense is bad, the whole team's defense is bad in the majority of stats, besides DRtg. Besides that, it isn't like I'm asking for the guy to be an 89 or anything. His numbers compare the same to Lee and Gasol, if not better. Boozer is only dropping to an 82, West is bumped to an 84, Hibbert is at an 81, Bogut's an 81. Pek either needs brought up, or all of those guys need brought down. I mean, you can go in and look at his numbers James, and you can't tell me they aren't way off in a lot of categories. He's a 4 in style, which is a Post Player with a Mid Range game and the dude shot 521 times underneath the basket vs 155 times anywhere else. His stats don't compare to those rated in the 80-82 range. It's just straight bias that I sit here and say it is easier for me to show that 6 guys or so need to be lowered vs raising Pek. |
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Aug 5, 2014 12:23:15 GMT
I'm not going to make any statements about Adelman's defensive philosophies. You might be right, but unfortunately that doesn't mean anything to me because I haven't seen him do anything else. If he comes in and averages 1.2 blocks per game without Adelman next season then sure fine maybe he's a bit better on defense than I'm giving him credit for. But until I see it I'm sticking with my rating although I'm not against lowering the guys you mentioned.
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Aug 5, 2014 16:29:18 GMT
Also compared to K Love where he might be below average to bad on defense Pekovic is literally one of the worst defenders in the league among all positions. He's a power forward masquerading as a Center and it's sad and an example of how shit the Timberwolves organization is. Why do you think that the D5 T-wolves kept Rubio and Love and then Pekovic is the only one of their core that he got rid of? And that's a fan of the real team and fans almost always overrate their own players. The T-Wolves with Pau Gasol instead of Pekovic make the playoffs.
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Aug 5, 2014 16:48:48 GMT
Some facts:
6-13 in games decided by less than 4 points or less. They missed the playoffs by 9 games. If the Wolves had the extra block pg that Pau contributes that's a bonus 2 points and then his 3 more assists per game equals out to 8 more points so perhaps that record is reversed and they make the playoffs.
No matter what you say about how bad the defensive players around Pek were as an excuse for his team's weak 2nd worst in the league opponent FG % in the restricted area. Pau's team mates were even worse and in a system ran by a coach that disregards Defense just as much as Adelman.
Low opponent freethrow rate implies unaggressive defense from all parties.
The fact that Gorgui Deng's ROOKIE defense caused half of T-wolves people to say to trade Pek on draft night should have been telling.
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Post by Andrei Kirilenko on Aug 7, 2014 11:31:43 GMT
79
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Post by Walt Frazier on Aug 7, 2014 12:44:51 GMT
Josh Barber: The biggest TWolves hater in town! |
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Aug 7, 2014 20:22:48 GMT
82
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