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Post by Walt Frazier on Jan 20, 2014 3:39:15 GMT
Current Rating - ?
Season Stats - 9.8pt / 8.8reb / 1.7 blk / .7 stl, shooting 51.2%
Been doing this all season, very consistently. I'd give him around a 78-79 for now?
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Post by James Kay on Jan 20, 2014 6:59:32 GMT
I think 78-79 is a little too high but I'd def give him 76-77
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Post by Walt Frazier on Jan 20, 2014 14:48:44 GMT
I'm just up to 78-79 b/c of how consistent he is. He may not get much of a boost over top of the 78-79 ever in his career (unless he takes another step), but he looks very consistently able to do what he's doing right now, which is pretty impressive.
The 76-77 is pretty safe for his stats, but he may just require another boost in a couple months. I was just taking out that 1st step I guess.
Whatever, but, to each their own of course.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Mar 25, 2014 19:58:30 GMT
Hey guys! So the season is coming to a close. Plumlee's stats: 25mpg - 50.2% FG & 55.7% FT - 8.3pt / 8.0reb / 1.3blk / .7stl This guy isn't a star, but do keep in mind those #'s are in just 25 mpg. Current Rating - 71 Suggested Rating - 78Areas for increase/Reasoning Rebounding - He's 17th in the league in Reb/48. He's tied with Garnett, just behind Noah and Duncan, and ahead of guys like Pau Gasol, Aldridge, Al Jeff, Faried, Sullinger, ZBo, Boozer, and Anthony Davis.Blocks - He's 23rd in the league in Blk/48. He's just a little behind Dwight, Koufos, Steven Adams, and he's above Pau Gasol, Taj Gibson, Favors, Gortat, Noah, JSmoove, Amir, and Cousins.FG% - I guess he hasn't taken quite enough shots, he doesn't qualify on the leaderboard, but his % would be the 29th best in the league. Right with guys like Al Jeff/Vucevic/Monroe/Hickson...just above guys like Kanter/Nene/Cousins/Duncan.Defense in general - He's the core of the Suns' Defense. From a different article talking about Defensive Player of the Year a couple months ago: "Miles Plumlee is also the biggest surprise to appear on this list. However, his defensive stats speak for themselves. According to Synergy Sports, Plumlee’s defense only gives up .81 ppp (points per possession) and allows just 39 percent of opponent’s shots to score.
Plumlee is an excellent pick-and-roll, spot-up, and isolation defender and is a solid rim defender, allowing just 47.6 percent of opponent’s shots to score at the rim."Negatives His 3pt should obviously be at about zero. He's actually taken zero 3's all season, not his game which is fine. FT% should be fairly low, but I wouldn't kill him yet. Consider this - While he's at about 56% for the season, he had two sub 50% months, and has had 3 65%+ months from the line. Pre All-Star he was at 52.8%, Post All-Star he's at 75%. So, let's keep an eye on that.All told, I think 78 is solid for Miles. Again in only 25 minutes per game he's at 8+/8/1+blk with a good FG% and close to a steal a game. He's great on D, let's give credit for that. |
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Post by Alex English on Mar 25, 2014 20:46:14 GMT
Lets not get ahead of ourselves here. He's playing well but it's not quite been a full season after being invisible as rookie with the Pacers. His rebounding is good and his shot blocking is alright but not much else. His offense is pretty weak. 50.2% isn't that great for a post and when you break it down it's even less impressive. He shoots 67.7% at the rim but just 31.8% when he's more than 3 feet away from the rim. You can't compare him to a guy like Al Jefferson who shoots 45.4% outside of 3 feet. His inside scoring is alright but he's got no mid-range jumper. I'm not sold on his defense yet either. Not sure where the 47.6% number comes from because NBA.com has him allowing 49.9% shooting at the rim. Either way it's nothing to brag about. The league leaders in this area are Bismack Biyombo (39.4%), Brook Lopez (40.3%), Roy Hibbert (41.3%), Larry Sanders (41.6%), all the usual suspects really, except for Brook Lopez who isn't known as an elite defender, but his sample size is small. But at least he's no Kevin Love who allows opponents to shoot 57.5% at the rim. Which is absolutely atrocious. It seems like Plumlee is a mediocre defender I guess. If he repeats this years performance next season then maybe he'd be worth a 78 but he is pretty limited right now. I'll say 75 for him. |
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Post by Walt Frazier on Mar 26, 2014 2:15:24 GMT
Sorry that article is a bit old, I think it was late December Alex. I didn't have time to look up the current #'s, just found an article with the #'s so I used it.
As for the rest, fuck you Billy. Who here doesn't give the highest rating to their player and everyone else gives a lower one? lmao. Stop hating.
My argument is I think he is simply this good, I don't see him being better next year, though maybe he gets more minutes, thus boosting his counting stats.
Alex, as for the FG%, you're right he doesn't have a midrange shot, but his inside scoring should be pretty solid.
AND, I never said he was Elite defender, I said he was a good defender. Get off my balls.
Since you bring it up Alex, Dwight Howard allows 48.3%, and DeAndre Jordan allows 50.4%, compared to Plumlee's 49.9%. ANDREA BARGNANI only allows 48.3%. So...according to your stat, Bargnani is a better rim defender than Dwight Howard. Dalembert is supposed to be a solid defender - 51.7%, Tyson Chandler is a good defender - 51.8%, Al Jeff himself - 53.9%, Varejao - 54.4% Cool stuff.
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Mar 26, 2014 16:19:50 GMT
75
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Post by Walt Frazier on Mar 26, 2014 16:45:48 GMT
Miles is an actual, real-life starting Center on a pretty good team. He plays real, meaningful minutes. You just rated Mike Miller and Tayshaun Prince above him. Really?
Really?
Seems super inconsistent. I get he maybe needs to prove himself more but he's been pretty consistent all year in his 25 mpg.
If he does this again next year, does he get a 78 from you guys? I don't see any evidence saying he isn't the player we've seen for pretty much the entire season. What's the hold up? I'd laugh my ass off if someone sent me Prince or Miller for Plumlee, but apparently they are both better players. Bet you the Suns IRL would laugh their asses off too.
Doesn't that mean anything?
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Post by Andrei Kirilenko on Mar 26, 2014 16:48:34 GMT
Absolutely not close to an 80. I'll give him a 75
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Post by Danny Longley on Mar 26, 2014 16:49:24 GMT
I'm having a hard time pushing him past 76 because he's a big, seeing as where the other ratings are. I'd have no problem with him at 78 though, if he manages this next year.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Mar 26, 2014 16:55:48 GMT
I honestly was shooting for a 77. I put a 78 to try and set a high bar. You guys are so freaked out with my fully detailed ratings.
Also, I gotta say, I appreciate the few of you who actually use stats to counter my very detailed posts. I do rating change posts the right way. When people get on and put in all the effort to type "75" or one-two sentences, and I'm like, uh, WHY doesn't he deserve to be what I said? It's pretty annoying and not really very fair. I'm not asking for as much back as I put in, but tell me why?
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Post by Walt Frazier on Mar 26, 2014 16:56:22 GMT
Absolutely not close to an 80. I'll give him a 75 Why? Why isn't he a 77 or 78? Why is he only a 75? Gimme something here Barber, otherwise this shouldn't even be counted. |
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Post by Andrei Kirilenko on Mar 26, 2014 17:04:08 GMT
Absolutely not close to an 80. I'll give him a 75 Why? Why isn't he a 77 or 78? Why is he only a 75? Gimme something here Barber, otherwise this shouldn't even be counted. Because I've actually watched Suns games this year. He wouldn't be starting on most teams. Mason is clearly the better Plumlee with more potential |
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Post by Andrei Kirilenko on Mar 26, 2014 17:05:33 GMT
Walt, I realize he is your player and you're going to argue us all to the death for 1 more rating point, but Miles Plumlee just isn't that good. He's definitely not in the 78-79 range as you suggest
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Post by Walt Frazier on Mar 26, 2014 17:09:10 GMT
This post is purely for research. Please look at the Bigs around the league. Where does Plumlee fit in?
Bigs rated 79:
Deandre Jordan (Probably needs a boost)
J.J. Hickson
Anderson Varejao
Tyrus Thomas (wtf?)
Amar'e Stoudemire
Greg Monroe
Al Harrington (going down)
Glen Davis
Samuel Dalembert
Kenyon Martin
Lamar Odom
Luis Scola
(Ersan Ilyasova plays a lot of PF)
Bigs rated @ 78:
Nikola Pekovic (Needs a boost!)
Spencer Hawes
Taj Gibson
Channing Frye
Larry Sanders
Chris Andersen
Omer Asik
Bismack Biyombo
Brandon Bass
Carl Landry
Bigs rated @ 77:
JaVale McGee
Kris Humphries
Elton Brand
Andray Blatche
Chris Kaman
Troy Murphy (retired, wtf is he a 77? lol)
Markieff Morris (probably needs a small boost)
Marcus Camby
Charlie Villanueva (sf/pf)
Jason Maxiell
DeJuan Blair
Anthony Randolph
Bigs rated @ 75-76:
Derrick Favors (Probably needs a boost)
Andre Drummond (Needs a boost!)
Robin Lopez (Needs a boost!)
Amir Johnson (Should maybe be more like a 78)
Tristan Thompson
Thomas Robinson (rated higher than jordan Hill for some reason...?)
Chuck Hayes
Andris Biedrins (going down)
Drew Gooden
Jason Thompson
Jason Smith
Udonis Haslem
Ed Davis
Marreese Speights
Byron Mullens
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Post by Walt Frazier on Mar 26, 2014 17:10:26 GMT
Walt, I realize he is your player and you're going to argue us all to the death for 1 more rating point, but Miles Plumlee just isn't that good. He's definitely not in the 78-79 range as you suggest Nah, I like to present stats and clear arguments and I get "b/c I watch them" in return. That's a perfectly fine part of the equation, but WHAT HAVE YOU SEEN that makes you think that? I've watched him too, he looks like a very serviceable big. I don't think he ever breaks 80 as a rating, maybe not even higher than 78 tops, but I don't see how he's only a 75 either. So, why are you right and I'm wrong? I put out a ton of information, you've put out about zero. Looking forward to your counterarguments. I think our ratings are just all types of F'd up though. Plumlee should be a 77. Yes I went high at a 78, shoot me, but he should be a 77. |
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Post by Walt Frazier on Mar 26, 2014 17:14:35 GMT
For the record, as shown today, I always put out stats and clear arguments on players. Not just my own players.
Now, do I acquire players that I think are good? Sure. I factor real life big time, some in here look more at ratings which is a mistake IMO. I'm just trying to make our rating system more appropriately represent real-life statistics and what I've seen on my TV and read in articles.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Mar 26, 2014 17:21:59 GMT
RED = Significant decrease almost certainly needed.ORANGE = Possible decreaseWhite/nothing = Probably OK where they are GREEN = Look at increase or should get an increase.This post is purely for research. Please look at the Bigs around the league. Where does Plumlee fit in? Bigs rated 79:Deandre Jordan (Probably needs a boost)J.J. Hickson Anderson Varejao Tyrus Thomas (wtf?)Amar'e Stoudemire Greg Monroe Al Harrington (going down)Glen DavisSamuel Dalembert
Kenyon Martin
Lamar OdomLuis Scola(Ersan Ilyasova plays a lot of PF) Bigs rated @ 78:Nikola Pekovic (Needs a boost!)
Spencer Hawes
Taj GibsonChanning Frye Larry Sanders Chris AndersenOmer Asik Bismack BiyomboBrandon Bass Carl LandryBigs rated @ 77:JaVale McGee Kris HumphriesElton Brand Andray Blatche Chris KamanTroy Murphy (retired, wtf is he a 77? lol)Markieff Morris (probably needs a small boost)Marcus Camby
Charlie Villanueva (sf/pf)
Jason Maxiell
DeJuan Blair
Anthony RandolphBigs rated @ 75-76:Derrick Favors (Probably needs a boost)
Andre Drummond (Needs a boost!)
Robin Lopez (Needs a boost!)
Amir Johnson (Should maybe be more like a 78)Tristan Thompson Thomas Robinson (rated higher than jordan Hill for some reason...?)Chuck Hayes
Andris Biedrins (going down)
Drew GoodenJason Thompson Jason Smith
Udonis Haslem
Ed Davis
Marreese SpeightsByron Mullens
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Post by Walt Frazier on Mar 26, 2014 17:23:35 GMT
I fully believe Plumlee should be in the 77-78 range, even more after looking at the ratings around the league.
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Chris Mullin
 Golden State Warriors
Starter
Posts: 1,303
Feb 19, 2024 21:58:28 GMT
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Post by Chris Mullin on Mar 26, 2014 17:32:55 GMT
I'd put Plumlee at a 75 because Terrence Jones is only getting bumped up to 76.
Now I know that sounds biased and what not since Jones is on my team, but statistically Jones averages more points and shoots higher %'s in doing so while only playing 2 more mins per game. Rebounds, blocks, and assists are almost the same. Jones also has a higher PIE according to NBA.com. IMO though, Jones should be around 78 and Plumlee right behind him in the 77 range.
With all that in mind I just cant rate Plumlee higher than Jones. And no this is not me trying to push for a bigger increase for Jones (kind of is) but merely justifying my thought process.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Mar 26, 2014 17:36:28 GMT
I actually agree totally Jones should be higher than Plumlee. And I still think Plumlee should be in the 77-78 range. I like Jones at 78-79.
I think your final rating is purely biased. Go revisit Jones' boost, there is more data now. Get it moved up higher. I fully support it. But it's a little crappy that b/c your guy's rating needs to be higher you won't move mine higher.
Putting Plumlee at a 77 would make everyone else think Jones should be at a 78-79. If you keep Plumlee down, you are encouraging keeping Jones down.
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Chris Mullin
Golden State Warriors
Starter
Posts: 1,303
Feb 19, 2024 21:58:28 GMT
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Post by Chris Mullin on Mar 27, 2014 1:37:05 GMT
I actually agree totally Jones should be higher than Plumlee. And I still think Plumlee should be in the 77-78 range. I like Jones at 78-79. I think your final rating is purely biased. Go revisit Jones' boost, there is more data now. Get it moved up higher. I fully support it. But it's a little crappy that b/c your guy's rating needs to be higher you won't move mine higher. Putting Plumlee at a 77 would make everyone else think Jones should be at a 78-79. If you keep Plumlee down, you are encouraging keeping Jones down. Fair enough Walt, I see your point. |
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Post by Walt Frazier on Mar 28, 2014 2:31:52 GMT
DeJuan Blair is 2-3 points better than Miles Plumlee. What world do you guys live in?
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Post by Allen Iverson on Mar 28, 2014 3:34:46 GMT
76. He and his brother really are both doing great! Would be better if he raise his FG% up, but overall, he's a great role player this year for the Suns.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 27, 2024 8:43:22 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2014 13:22:35 GMT
77 just because Walt made some good points.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Mar 29, 2014 2:44:24 GMT
Long thread so I wanted to summarize the ratings so far
75
75
75
76
76
76.5
77
77
78
As of now he would get a 76
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Post by Shaquille O'Neal on Apr 2, 2014 13:45:29 GMT
77
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Post by Mike Krzyzewski on Apr 3, 2014 3:52:10 GMT
77
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Post by Tracy McGrady on Apr 3, 2014 18:08:14 GMT
78
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