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Post by Ian Noble on Jul 11, 2013 23:30:15 GMT
Celtics receive:
Cleveland 2013 1st (5th Pick)
Toronto 2013 1st (2nd Pick)
75 - Byron Mullens - $3,293,976
71 - Austin Daye - $4,135,391
Total - $7,429,367
Cavaliers receive:
87 - Kevin Garnett - $11,532,468 - $12,000,000
89 - Paul Pierce - $15,334,334
Total - $26,866,802
Projected cap space during Free Agency - $21,397,262
Thus begins my rebuild, before I've even left the Playoffs.
I want to begin my rebuild and what better way than two of the top five picks this year?
I targeted Cleveland as a destination for these two Hall of Famers because I knew it would help them lure not just an expiring Andrew Bynum back to the Cavaliers this off season, but probably also at least one other top player in the FA crop since this trade still leaves them with $21m in cap space. KG and PP are going to be championship contenders this year in Brooklyn, in real life, and I don't foresee their stock dropping for some time yet as a result.
Trading Paul Pierce was sacrilege for me a month ago, but since then he's been dealt to the Nets and it doesn't seem so bad that he retires whilst playing for a different team, he'll have his jersey retired and he will live in Celtic folklore forever, and so will Kevin Garnett.
I will write more tomorrow, me and Dan have been exchanging a couple of messages and it's very late here.
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Dan Gilbert
Former Cavaliers GM
Sophomore
Posts: 457
Apr 4, 2024 17:22:13 GMT
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Post by Dan Gilbert on Jul 11, 2013 23:52:30 GMT
I accept this deal.
As much as I would've loved to build around those two picks, I don't have anymore time to be mediocre since I traded my 2014 first. This trade should helps push me back at least into the playoff picture, thus not giving someone Andrew Wiggins in next years draft. This will also help with resigning Andrew Bynum and hopefully it helps bring in some other key guys.
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Post by Alex English on Jul 12, 2013 0:15:02 GMT
Well the obvious problem is that this trade can't go through until the salary charts advance to next year. I'm assuming Ian's got that covered though.
As for the trade I think it's a fantastic deal for Boston. It's more than they got in real life and since he's already got a young piece in Enes Kanter that can go along with these two picks it should make his rebuild that much quicker. For Cleveland I'm not a fan, Garnett is probably only a luxury role player from now until he retires and while Pierce is still good he's no longer a star imo. Both those guys will be up for rating decreases. Garnett is probably only like an 80 and Pierce like an 85 so that alone takes a lot out of the return from this deal. But there are no sure superstars in this draft and those two picks picks could realistically only end up being solid starters and nothing more. Plus with Bynum, Lowry, Wilson Chandler and Larry Sanders there are some good pieces in Cleveland.
I don't really like it for the Cavs but his cupboard isn't bare so I'll accept this. Great job by Ian to get his rebuild off to a fantastic start. It'll be interesting to see if Rondo gets traded too.
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Post by Danny Longley on Jul 12, 2013 6:03:06 GMT
thus not giving someone Andrew Wiggins in next years draft.  |
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Post by Ian Noble on Jul 12, 2013 7:17:32 GMT
Well the obvious problem is that this trade can't go through until the salary charts advance to next year. I'm assuming Ian's got that covered though. The inclusion of Cleveland's "Projected cap space during Free Agency - $21,397,262" is just to show that he still has lots of cap space once we move to next season's salaries and enter free agency. The salaries listed in the original post are this year's salaries because we haven't progressed to next season's yet. |
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Post by Walt Frazier on Jul 12, 2013 13:11:24 GMT
Honestly just very curious how this is going to be handled.
Ian, not trying to put pressure on you but, while you are in the playoffs, you can not trade. If you win your current series and move on, these picks of Cleveland's will have gone OTC and been passed by the time you are allowed to trade. I know you can just tell Cleveland who to pick and then post it afterwards...but I guess just looking for confirmation as to how this will be handled before I vote.
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Post by Ian Noble on Jul 12, 2013 13:46:28 GMT
I hadn't thought about that, Walt. But I guess pretty much this will happen: I know you can just tell Cleveland who to pick and then post it afterwards... I'll tell Cleveland who to pick. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2013 13:58:47 GMT
I don't think this should be allowed.
#1 Your still in the playoffs...you cant trade.
#2 If you say your going to tell him who to draft... you cant. You cant make a trade offer while being a playoff team. And now that the league knows of this trade, any future trading of the same guys should not be allowed.
#3 This is why any team that enters the playoffs should have to wait until the end of the playoffs to trade. No matter if they advance or not.
#4 Projected cap space has nothing to do with these teams right now.... Cleveland could make more trades before the seasons done and that cap will change....I just don't like this.... We cant look at a team and state that IN FA(which is not even here yet)---and after a trade with a playoff team(which is still playing)--This trades going to go down.
#5 If this is allowed then S&T should be allowed.
Its a great move for Celtics--but Cavs do not have the official cap space until after every team is done in the playoffs....
SO I do not agree on this one guys...
wake up... Ian your the Admin...but we gotta keep the league fair.....which you have always been about!
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Post by Walt Frazier on Jul 12, 2013 14:04:04 GMT
I hadn't thought about that, Walt. But I guess pretty much this will happen: I know you can just tell Cleveland who to pick and then post it afterwards... I'll tell Cleveland who to pick. I'm fine with this happening, but the current trade you have up should be taken down IMO. You aren't allowed to trade, but we've all had gentleman's agreements before. Just tell him who you want at both picks, then when you get eliminated from the playoffs or win the championship, whatever happens, repost. I guess it's risky that he could back out or something, but this trade really should not be allowed to be voted on until you are no longer in the playoffs. It gets a reject from me for that reason. |
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Post by Walt Frazier on Jul 12, 2013 14:05:57 GMT
I disagree with JR's point #2, you guys just put this up too early, but if you make the same trade later it's fine with me to be honest...but right now it's a no.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2013 14:08:37 GMT
I disagree with JR's point #2, you guys just put this up too early, but if you make the same trade later it's fine with me to be honest...but right now it's a no. Do you agree that Cavs are over the cap until after the playoffs are over--which means they wont have the cap for the trade until that point? |
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Post by Dominique Wilkins on Jul 12, 2013 14:13:06 GMT
Reject due to cap issues or 125% rule...take your pick.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Jul 12, 2013 14:21:33 GMT
I disagree with JR's point #2, you guys just put this up too early, but if you make the same trade later it's fine with me to be honest...but right now it's a no. Do you agree that Cavs are over the cap until after the playoffs are over--which means they wont have the cap for the trade until that point? This is what I was disagreeing with And now that the league knows of this trade, any future trading of the same guys should not be allowed. I made my point about why it shouldn't be allowed already, but yes any cap posted should also be this current season's cap #'s. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2013 14:26:53 GMT
You guys want the league to be as real as possible and have made decisions on trades due to that obligation.
Well than no trading after the season should be official until after the playoffs. The NBA gas a deadline for this:
102. What is the July Moratorium?
It is a period during the month of July in which teams may not sign most free agents or make trades. Free agents become free on July 1, but the salary cap is not set until the league's audit is completed later in the month. Teams and players must wait for the salary cap to be set before trades and most free agent signings can commence. Teams may negotiate with free agents beginning July 1, but they have to wait until the moratorium ends before signing a contract. The dates for the July Moratorium are as follows:
Season July Moratorium Players may be signed beginning
2012-131 July 1-10, 2012 July 11, 2012
2013-14 July 1-9, 2013 July 10, 2013
2014-15 July 1-9, 2014 July 10, 2014
2015-16 July 1-8, 2015 July 9, 2015
2016-17 July 1-11, 2016 July 12, 2016
2017-18 July 1-11, 2017 July 12, 2017
2018-19 July 1-10, 2018 July 11, 2018
2019-20 July 1-9, 2019 July 10, 2019
2020-21 July 1-8, 2020 July 9, 2020
There are a few types of signings that are allowed to take place during the July Moratorium. Generally, these are the signings that do not depend in any way on the specific value of the salary cap:
Teams may sign their first round draft picks (to a standard rookie "scale" contract -- see question number 48)
A second round draft pick can accept a required tender, which is a one-year contract offer teams must submit to retain their rights to the player.
A restricted free agent can accept a qualifying offer from his prior team (see question number 43).
A restricted free agent finishing the fourth season of his rookie "scale" contract can accept a maximum qualifying offer. The player will receive the maximum salary, but the actual amount is not determined until the end of the moratorium (see question number 43).
Teams may sign players to minimum salary contracts for one or two seasons, with no bonuses of any kind.
All other signings must wait until the moratorium ends.
1 There was no July Moratorium in 2011-12 due to the 2011 lockout.
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Post by Ian Noble on Jul 12, 2013 14:56:38 GMT
Reject due to cap issues or 125% rule...take your pick. There are no cap issues involved. Cleveland has the cap space and then some, $21m in fact, before that even becomes a consideration. This trade will be queued like any other that is submitted during a time when trading is on hold. Do you guys think that should be outlined clearer anywhere? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2013 15:04:18 GMT
Reject due to cap issues or 125% rule...take your pick. There are no cap issues involved. Cleveland has the cap space and then some, $21m in fact, before that even becomes a consideration. This trade will be queued like any other that is submitted during a time when trading is on hold. Do you guys think that should be outlined clearer anywhere? CLEVELAND DOES NOT HAVE THE CAP UNTIL AFTER THE SEASON. THE SEASON IS NOT OVER UNTIL WE HAVE A CHAMPION. YOU CAN PUT ANYTHING ON HOLD, BUT DELETE THE TRADE HERE...MAKE YOUR PICKS IN TALKS AND AFTER THE SEASON POST YOUR TRADE. TAKE THE RISK OF HIM CHANGING HIS MIND ON THE TRADE. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2013 15:06:11 GMT
I PERSONALLY FEEL THAT "all" TEAMS SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO TRADE AFTER THE REG SEASON UNTIL AFTER A CHAMPION IS CROWNED. OR UNTIL A DATE PROPOSED!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2013 15:10:44 GMT
Reject due to cap issues or 125% rule...take your pick. There are no cap issues involved. Cleveland has the cap space and then some, $21m in fact, before that even becomes a consideration. This trade will be queued like any other that is submitted during a time when trading is on hold. Do you guys think that should be outlined clearer anywhere? Yes... Things need changed and outlined more than it is. Im not afraid to be honest because I have nothing to lose. If you guys want to make this league as real as possible..lets cut out the errors and things that make the league unrealistic and get it all outlined. Otherwise we are going to have more issues like this. Officially Ian cannot trade until hes done in the playoffs. If injuries are on next season best of luck to Cleveland... |
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Post by Dominique Wilkins on Jul 12, 2013 15:16:38 GMT
Reject due to cap issues or 125% rule...take your pick. There are no cap issues involved. Cleveland has the cap space and then some, $21m in fact, before that even becomes a consideration. This trade will be queued like any other that is submitted during a time when trading is on hold. Do you guys think that should be outlined clearer anywhere? Cleveland has $21M AFTER the season is over, which it is not, so at this 'point in time' I reject...I generally hate 'queued' trades, just so ya know. Why not just wait until after the season is over, let Cleveland make the picks for you and proposed it then?? Worst case senario, you wait another 15 days? Is that really too long to wait? Just sayin' |
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Post by Ian Noble on Jul 12, 2013 15:18:28 GMT
Oh crap what a monumental mistake, lol. I see where I was going wrong now.
I submitted this trade late at night and I was semi-conscious, sorry for the screw up guys.
I'll get onto it tonight, when I'm back from work in like 2 hours from now.
"schoolboy error" from a commissioner, how embarrassing!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2013 15:32:25 GMT
Mr. Noble, will this blunder affect KG and Pierce in tonight's game 7 against Miami? I bet Lebron will be laughing at them all game long since you are trading them TO CLEVELAND!!! Even if the Celtics win, you know Noah will be talking crap about this since he said the following: Case in point, you may have cost the Celtics their second championship!  |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2013 15:35:41 GMT
Mr. Noble, will this blunder affect KG and Pierce in tonight's game 7 against Miami? I bet Lebron will be laughing at them all game long since you are trading them TO CLEVELAND!!! Those guys are champions and they need to worry about gm 7, which I believe they will. Wouldn't it b nice to win it all and then trade your top 2 players for a rebuild. Nice move if Boston secures it after the season. I expect them to do nothing more than play for the ring either way SAC! |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2013 15:38:09 GMT
Mr. Noble, will this blunder affect KG and Pierce in tonight's game 7 against Miami? I bet Lebron will be laughing at them all game long since you are trading them TO CLEVELAND!!! Those guys are champions and they need to worry about gm 7, which I believe they will. Wouldn't it b nice to win it all and then trade your top 2 players for a rebuild. Nice move if Boston secures it after the season. I expect them to do nothing more than play for the ring either way SAC! Sorry, but Miami needs to get a ring for the King!  |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2013 15:44:03 GMT
Those guys are champions and they need to worry about gm 7, which I believe they will. Wouldn't it b nice to win it all and then trade your top 2 players for a rebuild. Nice move if Boston secures it after the season. I expect them to do nothing more than play for the ring either way SAC! Sorry, but Miami needs to get a ring for the King! Guess what the "King"-who cant win it without other star players---- has NO RINGS/CHAMPIONSHIPS--in this league and hopefully we can keep it that way during the entire tenure of this league!!! Go Boston!! |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2013 15:50:10 GMT
Sorry, but Miami needs to get a ring for the King! Guess what the "King"-who cant win it without other star players---- has NO RINGS/CHAMPIONSHIPS--in this league and hopefully we can keep it that way during the entire tenure of this league!!! Go Boston!! I will get him one if he can't win it in Miami! |
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Post by Ian Noble on Jul 12, 2013 18:23:47 GMT
Me and Dan Gilbert have massaged each other about this now. I was a careless here and shouldn't have posted this when I, quite worryingly, was not thinking straight, but me and Dan still want to go through with the deal, so Trade Committee please judge it as you would normally. I've modified the original post to reflect team/player salaries after progressing to 2013/14. If anything changes in either team's situation to make this trade void in the meantime, it wont go through. I don't like queued trades also and I keep thinking "what would I do if it were any other GM making this trade?" and I think I would do the same. Even if we called it an instant reject and sent it to the Rejected Trades section, it would only mean the GMs would have to wait a while to repost it. I PERSONALLY FEEL THAT "all" TEAMS SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO TRADE AFTER THE REG SEASON UNTIL AFTER A CHAMPION IS CROWNED. OR UNTIL A DATE PROPOSED! In real life this is fine, but from experience I know that restricting trading any more than you have to leads to inactivity. Even during these playoffs we've fluctuated a bit around the low 20s of members online (16 members, 5 staff) and this is supposed to be the most exciting time! That's also why I made the lottery into a wait-and-see event, announcing picks once a day, to keep non-playoff-GMs tuning in whilst they wait. I'm going to do the same thing with Executive of the Year too! |
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Post by Ian Noble on Jul 12, 2013 20:19:24 GMT
Oh and...  |
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Post by Walt Frazier on Jul 12, 2013 21:53:44 GMT
I really would not do this if I was Cleveland but I am not Cleveland...and this isn't an amazing draft class, but I think he's giving up two very productive players nonetheless.
I guess I'll accept.
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Post by Alex English on Jul 12, 2013 22:11:44 GMT
I really don't understand why this trade can't just be queued until the salary charts advance. Cleveland makes the picks on behalf of Boston and then it only officially goes through once it becomes possible under the cap. Seriously JR, why are you so against this? Things like this happen all the time in the NBA. Pretty much all NBA news from the last two weeks has been from a situation like this since moves can't officially be made until July 10th. We queued trades last year so it's not like we're just making something up to try and make this deal possible.
So anyways, with 2 accepts does that mean this trade will be finalized? What happens if there is a 2-2 tie when Ian can't be the tie breaking vote?
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Post by Dominique Wilkins on Jul 12, 2013 22:20:10 GMT
Accept from me also...now that it's all straightened out.
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