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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2013 3:04:45 GMT
The jury did the right thing and the case was racially motivated from the start. If you cannot prove someone committed a crime, which the State of Florida could not, then they should be found not guilty. In all honesty, I don't think the case possesses a place in a courtroom.
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Post by Alex English on Jul 14, 2013 3:36:05 GMT
In terms of what I've heard, I think Zimmerman is absolutely guilty of at least manslaughter. However it's not that simple since it has to be proven in court and apparently there wasn't enough evidence to do that. The jurors know a whole lot more about the facts than I do so I'll have to defer to their judgement that there wasn't enough evidence to prove his guilt. Either way Trayvon Martin's death is very tragic.
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Post by Ian Noble on Jul 14, 2013 8:18:02 GMT
I've heard of the case because I spend time on Reddit.com, but I don't know any details other than it was probably some racist fucking cop killing a child in cold blood and getting away with it because of technicalities in the legal system.
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Magic Johnson
Former Lakers GM
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Post by Magic Johnson on Jul 14, 2013 14:14:00 GMT
This is pretty big news because a lot of people were convinced he'd be charged with second degree manslaughter, despite what the video says. I wanted to get your guys opinion on the case and what you guys thought about the ultimate verdict. Wasn't the case second degree murder they pursued instead of the manslaughter charges.
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Magic Johnson
Former Lakers GM
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Feb 27, 2024 20:39:01 GMT
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Post by Magic Johnson on Jul 14, 2013 14:16:28 GMT
And I agree with Perkins Americas Justice System is a joke (OJ, Ray Lewis) especially the one in the state of Florida with Casey Anthony and George Zimmerman.
Maybe Aaron Hernandez should have killed Odin Lloyd in Florida instead because he would be a free man right now.
I became very infuriated when the prosecution had the nerve to say it may not be perfect but AMERICA HAS THE BEST JUSTICE system in the world, no it doesn't otherwise people like Zimmerman and Anthony would not be walking among-st normal human beings right now.
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Post by Ian Noble on Jul 14, 2013 16:39:21 GMT
In the context of this case, the Zimmerman trial does make the US justice system looked like the most fucked up system in the world.
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Magic Johnson
Former Lakers GM
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Post by Magic Johnson on Jul 14, 2013 17:10:05 GMT
In the context of this case, the Zimmerman trial does make the US justice system looked like the most fucked up system in the world. Bingo BOS.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2013 17:20:37 GMT
Wow lol, talk about an inability to see the other side.
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Post by Ian Noble on Jul 14, 2013 20:17:49 GMT
Wow lol, talk about an inability to see the other side. Yeah it seems there's a good case in favour of Zimmerman too. Obviously nobody should be convicted without evidence, but then that should also apply to the non-US people who are being tortured to death in Guantanamo, who haven't even been charged with a crime. We should take this anger and re-direct it at the NSA.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2013 20:21:20 GMT
Wow lol, talk about an inability to see the other side. Yeah it seems there's a good case in favour of Zimmerman too. Obviously nobody should be convicted without evidence, but then that should also apply to the non-US people who are being tortured to death in Guantanamo, who haven't even been charged with a crime. We should take this anger and re-direct it at the NSA. Despite what people think, our constitution does not apply to non-Americans. I know you will go nuts on this, but I don't think water boarding equals torture. However, this is really not the issue at hand. After watching and reading a lot about this case, it seems obvious to me that the jury made the right decision. Additionally, I think a good argument could be made that the State of Florida should never have tried this case.
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Post by Ian Noble on Jul 14, 2013 20:44:32 GMT
Despite what people think, our constitution does not apply to non-Americans. Illegal immigrants are indeed treated as "non-humans", it's sickening.
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Post by Alex English on Jul 14, 2013 20:58:05 GMT
I know you will go nuts on this, but I don't think water boarding equals torture. Vlade there isn't a chance in hell that you would still hold that opinion if waterboarding was being done to Americans instead of by Americans. That isn't even the issue with Guantanamo anyway. The problem is that most, if not all, of the people there are being held without charges. They're just being detained indefinitely for no reason. If the US government had the evidence to charge the detainees then they'd have done so a long time ago. But they don't have the evidence since most of them are completely innocent.
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Magic Johnson
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Post by Magic Johnson on Jul 14, 2013 21:25:38 GMT
Wow lol, talk about an inability to see the other side. so I guess in that regard you are cool with Casey Anthony, Ray Lewis, and OJ Simpson being a free man/woman (not so much in OJ's case anymore).
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2013 22:15:52 GMT
I was a little kid when OJ happened, but what do you expect to happen when police tamper with evidence? I think I attended elementary school when Ray Lewis happened, and I really do not know enough about it to comment. However, I will say that it seems weird to me that Ray Lewis got to play while on trial and Aaron Hernandez does not. As for Casey Anthony, not only am I okay cool with it but I am excited about it. In my humble opinion, our founders created a judicial system that would give the defendant the benefit of the doubt in close situations. While progressive-minded people may not like this notion, I would MUCH rather let someone who committed a crime go free than to put someone who did not commit a crime in jail. This principal can be found in both the Casey Anthony and George Zimmerman cases. However, my personal intuition tells me that Casey Anthony, and/or her parents, probably killed the baby. On the other hand, my personal intuition tells me that George Zimmerman acted in self-defense and deserves to be a free man. I can hear someone accusing me of being racist, but honestly I am looking at the facts of both cases and making a personal decision. I do not, however, let my own personal opinion take precedent over the facts of the case. Thus, I like both decisions.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2013 22:28:52 GMT
Despite what people think, our constitution does not apply to non-Americans. Illegal immigrants are indeed treated as "non-humans", it's sickening. I know England does not really find it hard to protect their border, the Atlantic Ocean and English Channel pretty much do that for them. To illustrate that fact, no invader has stepped foot on British soil since 1066. Obviously, not all illegal aliens are invaders. They are victims of poverty and poor decision making on the part of the Mexican Government through out the course of history. This presents a two-fold problem for the United States. First, some of the people that come across the border are bad people. In my opinion, and you probably disagree, but we deserve to protect ourselves from these people. The constitution DOES NOT give its rights to all people, such as the right to a trial by jury and the right to bear arms, that Americans enjoy. Against this background, the issue becomes "how do you help and/or distinguish between the good people that want to work and enjoy the blessings of liberty versus people who wish to harm us?" It can be tricky sometimes, but if we would enforce the border and only let people who do not possess a criminal in Mexico come over then that would be a start. I know its not far that they were not born in the United States, but we cannot be burdened with Mexico's problem; I mean really we possess plenty of problems and monetary issues without the extra headache. I am starting to ramble here but not enforcing out border really hurts the United States socially and economically.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2013 22:30:45 GMT
I know you will go nuts on this, but I don't think water boarding equals torture. Vlade there isn't a chance in hell that you would still hold that opinion if waterboarding was being done to Americans instead of by Americans. That isn't even the issue with Guantanamo anyway. The problem is that most, if not all, of the people there are being held without charges. They're just being detained indefinitely for no reason. If the US government had the evidence to charge the detainees then they'd have done so a long time ago. But they don't have the evidence since most of them are completely innocent. If we committed acts of terror, then sure I would be. Also, if you are right, then why don't Obama let the innocent ones out of prison? Speaking of Obama, I am still waiting for Guantanamo Bay to be closed.
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Post by Alex English on Jul 14, 2013 22:56:38 GMT
Vlade there isn't a chance in hell that you would still hold that opinion if waterboarding was being done to Americans instead of by Americans. That isn't even the issue with Guantanamo anyway. The problem is that most, if not all, of the people there are being held without charges. They're just being detained indefinitely for no reason. If the US government had the evidence to charge the detainees then they'd have done so a long time ago. But they don't have the evidence since most of them are completely innocent. If we committed acts of terror, then sure I would be. Also, if you are right, then why don't Obama let the innocent ones out of prison? Speaking of Obama, I am still waiting for Guantanamo Bay to be closed. What the hell does "acts of terror" even mean? That's just a buzzword used by US media to mean 'anything done by our enemies'. Give me an objective definition of terrorism and I'll give you long list of 'acts of terror' committed by the US. As for why Guantanamo prisoners aren't tried or released? I think it's because of the massive political consequences of facing the war crimes of past administrations. If they're released the governments of the world won't just say "oh thanks for our citizen back, how kind of you". They'll obviously want some kind of justice. But if the US just claims all the prisoners are terrorists but then does nothing to act on the claims then the whole thing is just left in a state of limbo. The US doesn't have to admit they're wrong but they also don't have to prove they're right. They can just kick the can down the road for the next administration to deal with, and that administration will do the same thing.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2013 23:22:57 GMT
If we committed acts of terror, then sure I would be. Also, if you are right, then why don't Obama let the innocent ones out of prison? Speaking of Obama, I am still waiting for Guantanamo Bay to be closed. What the hell does "acts of terror" even mean? That's just a buzzword used by US media to mean 'anything done by our enemies'. Give me an objective definition of terrorism and I'll give you long list of 'acts of terror' committed by the US. As for why Guantanamo prisoners aren't tried or released? I think it's because of the massive political consequences of facing the war crimes of past administrations. If they're released the governments of the world won't just say "oh thanks for our citizen back, how kind of you". They'll obviously want some kind of justice. But if the US just claims all the prisoners are terrorists but then does nothing to act on the claims then the whole thing is just left in a state of limbo. The US doesn't have to admit they're wrong but they also don't have to prove they're right. They can just kick the can down the road for the next administration to deal with, and that administration will do the same thing. 1. www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/terrorism - go for it, this should be amusing. 2. I don't thin Obama gives a shit about what people think anymore. He must think they are some kind of threat to the United States, but I do agree IF innocent Muslims should be release. Then again, I doubt you can back up your claim with fact.
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Post by Alex English on Jul 15, 2013 0:19:59 GMT
1. www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/terrorism - go for it, this should be amusing. 2. I don't thin Obama gives a shit about what people think anymore. He must think they are some kind of threat to the United States, but I do agree IF innocent Muslims should be release. Then again, I doubt you can back up your claim with fact. Ok here are the definitions: Terrorism: the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion and Terror is defined as: a state of intense fear Do you not see how those definitions are so vague that they're meaningless? Anything done by a government that causes people to feel "intense fear" can be labeled as terrorism. The concept only exists as a propaganda tool. You could honestly fit anything into that definition. Is Obama's election an act of terror since it caused so many right wing racists to feel intense fear? Considering you want examples: Here is a list of 357 drone strikes committed by the US in Pakistan. That fits the definition perfectly. It's systematic since it's been ongoing since 2004. They are acts committed against a country the US is supposed to be at peace with. The strikes will undeniably cause Pakistanis to be in terror. Here is the wiki about the Iraq War. It was an unprovoked invasion by the US (and others) that caused the death of hundreds of thousands of people. It easily fits under the definition of terrorism. There are the Tuskegee syphilis experiments. This may not qualify since it wasn't known at the time so it probably didn't cause "intense fear". But a covert biological attack against Americans would absolutely be called terrorism by the US government and media. Also there is the Bay of Pigs invasion brought to you by your friends at the CIA. There are 357 textbook examples of terrorism and 3 more acts that would surely be labeled as terrorism if committed against America. That's off the top of my head. We could ask Ian too, I'm sure he has filing cabinet full of awful things done by the US and other governments lol.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2013 1:38:29 GMT
Man I typed a bunch of crap and my browser went off! Rather than retyping it I am just going to say the most important thing. The Pakistan drone attacks is a skewed stat because of a region known as Tora Bora (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tora_Bora) that extends between the border of Afghanistan and Pakistan. Terroist would go hide in caves in that area during the Afghan War so we could not bomb the cap out of them. Basically, no dividing line exists and not many people from country live in that area. Thus, it is basically an extension of the Afghan war.
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Magic Johnson
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Post by Magic Johnson on Jul 15, 2013 16:32:53 GMT
I was a little kid when OJ happened, but what do you expect to happen when police tamper with evidence? I think I attended elementary school when Ray Lewis happened, and I really do not know enough about it to comment. However, I will say that it seems weird to me that Ray Lewis got to play while on trial and Aaron Hernandez does not. As for Casey Anthony, not only am I okay cool with it but I am excited about it. In my humble opinion, our founders created a judicial system that would give the defendant the benefit of the doubt in close situations. While progressive-minded people may not like this notion, I would MUCH rather let someone who committed a crime go free than to put someone who did not commit a crime in jail. This principal can be found in both the Casey Anthony and George Zimmerman cases. However, my personal intuition tells me that Casey Anthony, and/or her parents, probably killed the baby. On the other hand, my personal intuition tells me that George Zimmerman acted in self-defense and deserves to be a free man. I can hear someone accusing me of being racist, but honestly I am looking at the facts of both cases and making a personal decision. I do not, however, let my own personal opinion take precedent over the facts of the case. Thus, I like both decisions. and you tell us that WE are not looking at other side. I don't consider you racist and I don't think this is a race based case or has any relations to that.
but the case was lost not because the defense brought a JAW dropping defense they won because the prosecution lost, the prosecution presented the case and evidence to the judge horribly. The fact still remains that George Zimmerman stalked Trayvon Martin continued to stalk him despite the Police Department telling him he doesn't need to and then confronted Trayvon Martin which provoked Martin into attacking Zimmerman. And I don't want to hear that Trayvon was on top and Zimmerman was on bottom, because even if you are in bottom position as long as you have access to a GUN you can still kill a person regardless of the scenario. If you had a kid and you know he was being stalked because of someone "perceving" that you were up to no good and continued to pursue your kid even though he has reported the kids actions, attire, and behavior to the police and then confronted the kid let the kid beat him up and then use "stand your ground" law to DEFEND HIMSELF and ASSSINATE YOUR CHILD Would you be okay with that?Let me put it to you that way instead.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2013 16:59:45 GMT
Well you better not fucking consider me racist or I might go libel on your ass! I think I can answer your question by saying that you do not possess proof that Zimmerman "stalked" Martin. Now he did follow him, despite a dispatcher telling him not to, but following someone is not against the law. When Martin asked him "why are you following me?" Zimmerman replied "what are you talking about?" All the fats in this case do not add up, you are right. However, our judicial system gives the benefit of the doubt to the defendant and I whole-heartily agree with that principal. Honestly, I think the prosecution did a good job considering the fact that their case did not possess any substances what-so-ever. The special prosecutor may get in trouble for trying a case WITH NO FACTS. Against the backdrop, I would want SEVENTEEN YEAR OLD to be respectful when someone asks them what they are doing on private property. Before I continue, let me just say that the Nuggets cut Birdman (Birdman Birdman!) because he took part in sexual intercourse with an older teenager girl who claimed to be over the age of consent. The law should be amended into two categories of child abuse, with the first being from birth to age 14 or 15 while the second ranging from 14 or 15 to age of consent/being an adult. Some of the so-called kids develop physically and either look like adults, and then thinks it is okay to lie about it, or can beat an adult's ass. Despite the media's attempt to make him look like a kid, Martin's physical stature likens closer to a man than a boy. Therefore, I do not feel you could consider him a child. Now, back to your hypothetical, I would want my children to be respectful to a man when you walk close to his house. Remember, it rained that day and he walked up close to house's that criminals targeted on a daily basis. I am not saying he possessed any malice toward those houses, I guess it would be possible but no one presented that as evidence. Zimmerman asked him Martin why he walked so close to the houses, and he gave him a thug-like answer. I am sorry, but I would follow someone who disrespected me in an area where I served as a neighborhood watchman. After that things got out of unfortunately got out of control, but both sides played a hand in heightening of the conflict. Also, remember that the dispatcher asked Zimmerman to describe the "attacker" and he could not because of the hoody that Martin wore. That in itself suggests that Zimmerman did not racially profile Martin. On a side note, I think you are hinting that you are African-American. We have done these leagues together for several years and I never knew that. I think you are a good guy and I enjoy debating/talking shit to you in basketball, and I think you feel the same. Just so you know, I don't really care if you are purple, black, white, brown, or green, but you showed me you are good guy. Remember, we did not like each other at first. Against this backdrop, let us say your name is Josh Awotwi; a name that I made up purely for the purpose of this demonstration. Let us say you are going along one day and a the police come to your house and say someone accused you of murder, but you do not know what they are talking about. At the same time, I turn on the news and see that an African-American man named Josh Awotwi murder a white guy for no reason. What would be my first reaction? It would not be one of racial prejudice or even contempt for that man. I honestly do not believe the media anymore, because of cases like Zimmerman, Anthony, the Duke La-cross, Mike Jackson, and many others, and would think to myself "how do they know for sure that man is African-American?"
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