|
|
Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on Apr 5, 2023 15:05:39 GMT
82 Michael Porter Jr $6,136,099
85 Dejounte Murray $29,025,000 $31,050,000 $33,075,000
2025 DET 2nd
Total = $35,161,099 X125% = $43,951,373.8
88 Zion Williamson $8,967,845 $8,994,749
74 Landry Shamet $4,000,000 $4,000,000
71 Johnny Davis $3,436,900 $3,608,900 $3,780,700 $5,402,620
77 Caris LeVert $26,739,250 $25,375,000 $24,010,750 $22,646,500
Total = $43,143,995
My appreciation to everyone who made an offer. You can talk with Chauncey now.
Accept.
Thanks Z. You lingered in my mind and consciousness the most in my entire run here in D5 even though Zach Lavine played more for us and delivered more.
|
|
|
|
Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on Apr 5, 2023 15:05:55 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by Chauncey Billups on Apr 5, 2023 15:08:58 GMT
Tough decision to make but I think it’s worth the gamble. My team isn’t performing at the moment. I want to shake things up and give myself a better chance in the future.
I accept
|
|
|
|
Post by Jared Montini on Apr 5, 2023 15:10:59 GMT
Tough decision to make but I think it’s worth the gamble. My team isn’t performing at the moment. I want to shake things up and give myself a better chance in the future. I accept brilliant move Chauncey 🐐 |
|
|
|
Post by Jerry West on Apr 5, 2023 15:24:30 GMT
A future MVP for 2 non all stars who aren't worth what they get paid. GG Chauncey
I'm sure it was a really hard decision
|
|
Amare Stoudemire
 Sacramento Kings
Starter
Posts: 2,416 
|
Post by Amare Stoudemire on Apr 5, 2023 15:56:46 GMT
Great move Hana, getting off that fat bust of a ham sandwich
Zion
|
|
|
|
Post by Mark Price on Apr 5, 2023 16:14:58 GMT
No trade analysis has discussed Caris LeVert being moved in this deal. I expect better.
|
|
|
|
Post by Mark Price on Apr 5, 2023 16:16:25 GMT
This trade will look bad for someone in two or three years, but you can easily see the thought process behind the move from both teams.
Sort of sad that this is the way we talk about Zion considering how good he's looked in his limited time on the court.
|
|
|
|
Post by Ian Noble on Apr 5, 2023 16:18:53 GMT
I accept
With Zion being injured most of the time and MPJ having a good sim build I'm not so sure this is so bad for Cleveland like people say, I'm not a fan of Dejounte though.
|
|
|
|
Post by Chauncey Billups on Apr 6, 2023 13:21:11 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by Walt Frazier on Apr 6, 2023 13:32:53 GMT
This is going to be incredibly interesting to follow, but it pretty much all hinges on Zion.
That said, I see LeVert as a pretty big negative so that "helps" the overall value of this trade. And on a waaaaay lesser level, even Davis/Shamet are just "okay" or worse and are eating up some salary cap space so at best they are neutral pieces IMO, possibly slightly negative (but in the scope of this trade, nothing moving the needle really).
MPJ & DeJounte just don't seem to be very valuable pieces. So, most of this is about Zion's injury history.
There's one version of events where Zion continues down this path of nonstop injuries. Maybe he banks a mostly healthy season here and there but is generally "always hurt" and makes it really hard to plan a team around him. Maybe he even is out of the game in 5 years. In that case, this deal is amazing for Hana.
Or, the other version where Zion figures his shit out and is a top-5 player in the game and Hana has made a horrible trade.
Since both versions seem entirely possible (and really, the first seems more likely based on what we have actually experienced) I find it hard to say reject, even though I wouldn't do it if I was Hana.
Anyway, Accept.
|
|
|
|
Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on Apr 6, 2023 14:19:13 GMT
Jerry. I appreciate how affected you are with this trade. And 60% of what you said are correct. The 40% though is out of line and pure bias to what you want to happen to justify your desire.
At the end of the day, you may not forgive yourself if MPJ ended up at his highest outcome and Zion also get to where you want him to be.
In short, attachment wise, you could be the one with the highest stake here.
Which is actually unusual and something to look forward.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jerry West on Apr 6, 2023 14:25:08 GMT
Jerry. I appreciate how affected you are with this trade. And 60% of what you said are correct. The 40% though is out of line and pure bias to what you want to happen to justify your desire. At the end of the day, you may not forgive yourself if MPJ ended up at his highest outcome and Zion also get to where you want him to be. In short, attachment wise, you could be the one with the highest stake here. Which is actually unusual and something to look forward. Value wise I just took a big hit when it comes to the Pistons pick, you are 100% correct. |
|
|
|
Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on Apr 6, 2023 14:28:59 GMT
Jerry. I appreciate how affected you are with this trade. And 60% of what you said are correct. The 40% though is out of line and pure bias to what you want to happen to justify your desire. At the end of the day, you may not forgive yourself if MPJ ended up at his highest outcome and Zion also get to where you want him to be. In short, attachment wise, you could be the one with the highest stake here. Which is actually unusual and something to look forward. Value wise I just took a big hit when it comes to the Pistons pick, you are 100% correct. ? Come on. Zion will not return this season. And..... Look at Detroits.... |
|
|
|
Post by Jerry West on Apr 6, 2023 14:32:10 GMT
Value wise I just took a big hit when it comes to the Pistons pick, you are 100% correct. ? Come on. Zion will not return this season. And..... Look at Detroits.... Detroit is already 6th and at I only see them dropping behind you to 7th. But the 2025 pick is worth a lot less now. But you are also correct saying MPJ, a guy who I traded because I had no intentions to pay him the max, be the main piece to get Zion. |
|
|
|
Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on Apr 6, 2023 14:35:30 GMT
? Come on. Zion will not return this season. And..... Look at Detroits.... Detroit is already 6th and at I only see them dropping behind you to 7th. But the 2025 pick is worth a lot less now. But you are also correct saying MPJ, a guy who I traded because I had no intentions to pay him the max, be the main piece to get Zion. Imagine if MPJ ended up a top 10 NBA player by 2026. Zion is #1. Then you remember you traded MPJ, the guy that the crazy Cleveland GM actually values and was actually looking to ask for together with a package of 1st before you blow that Detroit trade.. In short, you had the key to Z, and you traded that key and even that key ended up being a top 10 NBA player. Let us witness how will it unfold. |
|
|
|
Post by Jerry West on Apr 6, 2023 14:41:46 GMT
Detroit is already 6th and at I only see them dropping behind you to 7th. But the 2025 pick is worth a lot less now. But you are also correct saying MPJ, a guy who I traded because I had no intentions to pay him the max, be the main piece to get Zion. Imagine if MPJ ended up a top 10 NBA player by 2026. Zion is #1. Then you remember you traded MPJ, the guy that the crazy Cleveland GM actually values and was actually looking to ask for together with a package of 1st before you blow that Detroit trade.. In short, you had the key to Z, and you traded that key and even that key ended up being a top 10 NBA player. Let us witness how will it unfold. MPJ was on the tradeblock the whole off season / draft and this season. If you had shown ANY interest for him at ANY point knowing he was on the block I'd agree with you, you read discord, you know how open I was about moving him and you never approached me, but that doesn't matter now, I just don't think it's a fair point to make lol |
|
|
|
Post by Andrei Kirilenko on Apr 6, 2023 14:46:19 GMT
This is a random rant, but I am not a subscriber to the idea that you need to wait and see to find out who won a trade. Each player or pick involved has a certain market value as of the trade date. If you get back more value than you send, then you’ve won the trade. What happens subsequently doesn’t matter because it doesn’t impact the market value you traded as of the trade date.
I don’t know what the value was for each player involved, but I don’t think the ultimate winner depends on if Zion can stay healthy or not. We should make our conclusions today based on today’s market value, and not adjust those conclusions in the future.
|
|
|
|
Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on Apr 6, 2023 14:48:35 GMT
This is a random rant, but I am not a subscriber to the idea that you need to wait and see to find out who won a trade. Each player or pick involved has a certain market value as of the trade date. If you get back more value than you send, then you’ve won the trade. What happens subsequently doesn’t matter because it doesn’t impact the market value you traded as of the trade date. I don’t know what the value was for each player involved, but I don’t think the ultimate winner depends on if Zion can stay healthy or not. We should make our conclusions today based on today’s market value, and not adjust those conclusions in the future. I agree. But our valuations right now are different because a big part of it is anchored into the future outcome of the players. So, even if we follow your thought-process, and we have two different valuation, we will still need to unravel what they will look like in the future for us to assess which one was more accurate in his analysis. |
|
|
|
Post by Andrei Kirilenko on Apr 6, 2023 14:57:26 GMT
This is a random rant, but I am not a subscriber to the idea that you need to wait and see to find out who won a trade. Each player or pick involved has a certain market value as of the trade date. If you get back more value than you send, then you’ve won the trade. What happens subsequently doesn’t matter because it doesn’t impact the market value you traded as of the trade date. I don’t know what the value was for each player involved, but I don’t think the ultimate winner depends on if Zion can stay healthy or not. We should make our conclusions today based on today’s market value, and not adjust those conclusions in the future. I agree. But our valuations right now are different because a big part of it is anchored into the future outcome of the players. So, even if we follow your thought-process, and we have two different valuation, we will still need to unravel what they will look like in the future for us to assess which one was more accurate in his analysis. There is a difference between your own valuation and the market valuation. If you are making decisions based on your own valuation and not the market valuation, then you are possibly leaving value on the table when making deals. For instance, trading valuable playersfor a player no one else values just because you think he could have a bright future (like Theo Maledon) means there may be a huge difference in market value that is exchanged. |
|
|
|
Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on Apr 6, 2023 15:05:06 GMT
I agree. But our valuations right now are different because a big part of it is anchored into the future outcome of the players. So, even if we follow your thought-process, and we have two different valuation, we will still need to unravel what they will look like in the future for us to assess which one was more accurate in his analysis. There is a difference between your own valuation and the market valuation. If you are making decisions based on your own valuation and not the market valuation, then you are possibly leaving value on the table when making deals. For instance, trading valuable playersfor a player no one else values just because you think he could have a bright future (like Theo Maledon) means there may be a huge difference in market value that is exchanged. I agree. But I think the belief that there is a concrete market valuation here in D5 is not really accurate specially with how diverse the activity level of the GMs here. Even in real life, we cannot really say that there is an establish valuation there of trade value. More picks are now needed to get young All-star caliber players, as seen in OG and Mikal' situation. While for the top 10 level guys, the valuation is kinda murky now, comparing KD and Gobert's return packages and even the James Harden trade. To simplify my point, I agree that GMs can and should assess the trades now but that assessment is also subject to validation in the future. I mean, I will accept any assessment and will just stand with my decision and look forward in the future if my decision is correct. |
|
|
|
Post by Tom Izzo on Apr 6, 2023 15:10:46 GMT
Yeah I think market value is not an objective thing for sports, especially D5. You see this happen every time a big trade is posted - "I would have given you X and X!"
Okay...but value depends on way too many variable things. Team need, team direction, salary situation, draft capital, competition window, etc.
If Detroit was the top seed in the East right now he wouldn't be trading for an injured Zion. There are far too many individual factors to objectively assess if a trade is really won. If Jared says he would have offered Harden, maybe Harden is the best player in the deal but isn't as valuable to Hana due to age and salary of Harden when compared to 2 mid 20s players.
|
|
|
|
Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on Apr 6, 2023 15:17:41 GMT
Yeah I think market value is not an objective thing for sports, especially D5. You see this happen every time a big trade is posted - "I would have given you X and X!" Okay...but value depends on way too many variable things. Team need, team direction, salary situation, draft capital, competition window, etc. If Detroit was the top seed in the East right now he wouldn't be trading for an injured Zion. There are far too many individual factors to objectively assess if a trade is really won. If Jared says he would have offered Harden, maybe Harden is the best player in the deal but isn't as valuable to Hana due to age and salary of Harden when compared to 2 mid 20s players. Looking at the trade in another angle. which ownership will be angrier with that trade? The owner of the team who just traded for two 30+ top 15 players this season or the owner of the team with the #3 seed who just traded two of their starter for someone who will not play this season? |
|
|
|
Post by Walt Frazier on Apr 6, 2023 15:57:15 GMT
This is a random rant, but I am not a subscriber to the idea that you need to wait and see to find out who won a trade. Each player or pick involved has a certain market value as of the trade date. If you get back more value than you send, then you’ve won the trade. What happens subsequently doesn’t matter because it doesn’t impact the market value you traded as of the trade date. I don’t know what the value was for each player involved, but I don’t think the ultimate winner depends on if Zion can stay healthy or not. We should make our conclusions today based on today’s market value, and not adjust those conclusions in the future. Problem is Zion is so polarizing. To this point he can't be counted on to be healthy so Hana won the deal. To this point he's proven he's a top-5 talent so Hana lost the deal. I don't actually know which statement is true, or, both are true. His value is too unclear. But, that means the trade is fine and it's roughly even, thus my accept. |
|
|
|
Post by Chauncey Billups on Apr 6, 2023 16:13:22 GMT
It’s possible that both teams benefit in different ways. Somebody doesn’t always have to win or lose. It’s all subjective.
|
|
|
|
Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on Apr 7, 2023 1:06:51 GMT
We need one more here people.
|
|
|
|
Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on Apr 7, 2023 23:14:53 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by Ian Noble on Apr 8, 2023 18:47:38 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by Ian Noble on Apr 8, 2023 21:20:28 GMT
It's been pointed out to me that this trade hasn't actually been passed yet, my mistake guys I just processed without checking! Danny LongleyAlex EnglishBryan ColangeloPlease lend this mistake some legitimacy  |
|
|
|
Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on Apr 8, 2023 22:16:53 GMT
It's been pointed out to me that this trade hasn't actually been passed yet, my mistake guys I just processed without checking! Danny LongleyAlex EnglishBryan ColangeloPlease lend this mistake some legitimacy Unethical. |
|
Cleveland Cavaliers
Detroit Pistons
Utah Jazz
Portland Trailblazers
LA Lakers
Boston Celtics
Minnesota Timberwolves
Brooklyn Nets
Houston Rockets
