Kings // Bulls

[Amare Stoudemire]

Sacramento Kings Trade:
2023 Houston 1st
2025 Memphis 1st
2026 San Antonio 1st
(74) Evan Fournier $18,000,000 $17,000,000
(74) Terrance Davis $5,000,000 $5,000,000 $5,000,000 $5,000,000
(77) Jalen Duren $4,590,500 $4,820,100 $5,049,600 $6,423,091
(71) Johnny Davis $3,436,900 $3,608,900
Damian Jones Dead $2,450,000 $2,633,750 $2,817,500
Hassan Whiteside Dead $1,017,071
George Hill Dead $1,017,781
Total: $35,512,962 * 1.25 $44,391,202



Chicago Bulls Trade:
(89) Damian Lillard $43,279,250 $46,525,194 $49,771,138 $49,771,138 $53,017,082 $56,263,026
(67) Luke Garza $785,924 $962,259
Total $44,065,174

I accept

Shane Battier

[Chauncey Billups]

Curious if somebody went all the way back to the original trade that sent Lillard away if it was all worth it.

[Shane Battier]

I accept. hate to make this kind of move. would have wanted to compete with Dame but even the pairing with Vuc did not work out. Was not also able to acquire another star in the offseason but still signed some role players who I think would have worked well with Dame. However, injuries have been real issue with my players and I did start out flat. Even with WCJ and Dame's return, our team still struggled to be competitive. With no real chance of being at least a tier below the real contenders, I thought that a move was needed to finally be able to retool and come back stronger.

[Amare Stoudemire]

Ian Noble
Danny Longley
Alex English
Bryan Colangelo
Walt Frazier

For votes please, ty

[Bryan Colangelo]

I accept!

[Amare Stoudemire]

1-0

[Ian Noble]

Dame is still at the top of his game in many ways but the signs of decline are starting to creep in. I think this will be a win for the Bulls in the long run but not enough to reject.

I accept.

[Walt Frazier]

If Jalen Duren eventually matches Mitch Robinsons value, that would be a good outcome for him. (Maybe not his best-case but still one of his better outcome ranges).

We've recently established Mitch is worth a very late, same-year 1st.

So I'll be generous and say we've got two very late 1sts, plus two firsts from teams that are currently very good but 2 & 3 years into the future. Granted much could change but are we talking at best, 1 lotto pick if Memphis crumbles?

For Damian Lillard?!

It feels light to me.

I'm not at accept yet, but I guess y'all will bully me there eventually since it's two managers that have been around for a while.

I dunno, I'm just not ready to accept yet. Is it Dame's age that's the concern? I haven't seen THAT much decline yet. Stars that are performing like stars are still worth a lot. Sometimes you have to take on that future risk (contract size and possibility of decline) in order to get a current star.

Still not there, I'm holding off.

[Amare Stoudemire]

2-0

[Tom Izzo]

There's an extremely limited market for stars over 30

[Jared Montini]

Paul george went for FVV and a late 1

[Walt Frazier]

Jan 31, 2023 13:32:14 GMT Tom Izzo said:

There's an extremely limited market for stars over 30

So in 2 years, if for some reason you traded Giannis... If you got any more than 3 late 1sts and basically a 4th late 1st value. So 4 late 1sts. I'll add a 5th late 1st since Giannis is better than Lillard obviously.

So if you get more than 5 late 1sts, I will veto that the other team is overpaying. Comfortable with that?

[Brian Scalabrine]

Jan 31, 2023 16:15:32 GMT Walt Frazier said:

Jan 31, 2023 13:32:14 GMT Tom Izzo said:

There's an extremely limited market for stars over 30

So in 2 years, if for some reason you traded Giannis... If you got any more than 3 late 1sts and basically a 4th late 1st value. So 4 late 1sts. I'll add a 5th late 1st since Giannis is better than Lillard obviously.

So if you get more than 5 late 1sts, I will veto that the other team is overpaying. Comfortable with that?

As the team that will be trading for giannis in the future, I am okay with this

[Amare Stoudemire]

Votes please

[Walt Frazier]

I have tried, repeatedly, to get myself to an accept.

But I can't.

I just think this value is really, really, really low for Dame. He's 32, not 36. He's taking a career-high # of 3's and matching his career % (which is also a ~5% increase from last year). FG% overall is at a career-high 46.3%. FT% is not falling, sitting just over 90%. REB/AST/STL all look similar to the past few years. I just don't see a decline yet. Will he decline? Yes of course. But this is not a value package for a superstar like Damian Lillard. Maybe I'm old-man-shouts-at-cloud here (and yes, I'm among the oldest people here, so... so be it), but I think we've got a problem with some of the values lately. I can envision down-stream effects that are not good for the league.

For that reason, I'm rejecting. So, league-health reasons. NOT the reason of protecting either manager (I think they're both great and I'm not worried about them abandoning their team, etc). If that's an invalid reason, then Ian can count it as an accept, I guess.

[Hanamichi Sakuragi]

Feb 2, 2023 3:04:42 GMT Walt Frazier said:

I have tried, repeatedly, to get myself to an accept.

But I can't.

I just think this value is really, really, really low for Dame. He's 32, not 36. He's taking a career-high # of 3's and matching his career % (which is also a ~5% increase from last year). FG% overall is at a career-high 46.3%. FT% is not falling, sitting just over 90%. REB/AST/STL all look similar to the past few years. I just don't see a decline yet. Will he decline? Yes of course. But this is not a value package for a superstar like Damian Lillard. Maybe I'm old-man-shouts-at-cloud here (and yes, I'm among the oldest people here, so... so be it), but I think we've got a problem with some of the values lately. I can envision down-stream effects that are not good for the league.

For that reason, I'm rejecting. So, league-health reasons. NOT the reason of protecting either manager (I think they're both great and I'm not worried about them abandoning their team, etc). If that's an invalid reason, then Ian can count it as an accept, I guess.

You are unethical for coming up of that high level of ethical thought-processing for this trade knowing that the TCs are not suppose to reach that level of thought-processing.

[Danny Longley]

Won't even lie, I was really hoping I wouldn't have to vote. This trade makes me every bit as uncomfortable as the old Lillard trade.

There's a lot of things and I know we all love 1sts here, but none of those 1sts look really good in the context of an 89 - maybe should be 90 player. Houston is good, the Spurs are good, maybe there's a world it goes to shit for Memphis but he'll at least have Bam. Duren is nice but he's the only thing in this pile that feels like even lottery value in this trade.

I know Dame is 32 and the drop-off with small guards like him are usually sudden and often extreme but he's still out there averaging 30 with good overall numbers and even today dropped another 40. It just doesn't sit right with me that he's moving for 1 lottery talent and a bunch of late 1sts.

Reject.

[Amare Stoudemire]

2-2 Alex English

[Alex English]

I think this is a terrible trade. It basically comes down to Jalen Duren and 3 1sts for Lillard. The rest is just filler. That seems light even before you look at which picks they are, and see that they all realistically project to be in the 20s, where you're doing well if you even draft a role player. So this depends on Jalen Duren becoming a superstar or getting extremely lucky with one of those picks.

The other side of this argument, that Lillard is soon to decline, also isn't convincing to me. Not only has he not showed any signs of decline, he's having one of the best seasons of his whole career, in both output and efficiency. All of D5 now knows he's available and what price might get him. I really find it hard to believe there isn't a better deal out there. And if there really isn't, then I don't know, come back in month and maybe we'll see that this really is his market value.

Right now, I reject.