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Post by Jared Montini on Apr 28, 2022 19:30:02 GMT
Also Josh mentioned like a month ago collins should be lowered in his opinion.
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Post by Jerry West on Apr 28, 2022 19:30:39 GMT
I'm asking which stat I should look at to verify that claim. Yes. It's measurable, no? I'm just looking for consensus on which I should look at. From what I recall during the discord, it seems to be largely agreed upon that RAPTOR was the best measure, unless I'm misremembering. Defensive stats can't be relied on entirely. They are contextual. Eye test is the only true measure. Every serious NBA observer agrees trez is a terrible defensive player Paid off by discord bandits obviously |
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Post by Tom Izzo on Apr 28, 2022 19:31:35 GMT
The way you spin your narratives, Josh.
Trez was also recently the league's 6MOTY. But no, you chose "bounced around on minimums" to describe him.
Collins has also had a regressed year and his team took a massive dump in the playoffs with a disappointing 4-1 1st round exit. But no, you chose "recently made the ECF and has a $125M contract."
Not that ANY of that matters at all when it comes to ratings, but you made an intentional choice to describe the players those ways.
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Post by Tom Izzo on Apr 28, 2022 19:33:39 GMT
Defensive stats can't be relied on entirely. They are contextual. Eye test is the only true measure. Every serious NBA observer agrees trez is a terrible defensive player Paid off by discord bandits obviously I'm sure you guys are loving the laughs you generate amongst yourselves by mocking the rest of us who are highlighting a legitimately aggravating, if not concerning, trend. |
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Post by Tom Izzo on Apr 28, 2022 19:34:28 GMT
Also Josh mentioned like a month ago collins should be lowered in his opinion. So where's the thread or will I have to trade for him first |
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Post by Chauncey Billups on Apr 28, 2022 19:36:04 GMT
I'm asking which stat I should look at to verify that claim. Yes. It's measurable, no? I'm just looking for consensus on which I should look at. From what I recall during the discord, it seems to be largely agreed upon that RAPTOR was the best measure, unless I'm misremembering. Defensive stats can't be relied on entirely. They are contextual. Eye test is the only true measure. Every serious NBA observer agrees trez is a terrible defensive player So defensive stats can’t be relied upon, but offensive stats are good and can be fully relied upon. Not contextual at all. But we’ll continue to throw numbers out there for the sake of backing up your own arguments. Use RAPTOR and LEBRON measures sometimes, but when a player is high, we’ll throw Hartenstein’s name out there to prove those stats don’t really matter, sometimes. Got it |
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Post by Tom Izzo on Apr 28, 2022 19:41:23 GMT
Defensive stats can't be relied on entirely. They are contextual. Eye test is the only true measure. Every serious NBA observer agrees trez is a terrible defensive player So defensive stats can’t be relied upon, but offensive stats are good and can be fully relied upon. Not contextual at all. But we’ll continue to throw numbers out there for the sake of backing up your own arguments. Use RAPTOR and LEBRON measures sometimes, but when a player is high, we’ll throw Hartenstein’s name out there to prove those stats don’t really matter, sometimes. Got it Inb4: "If I have to tell you that X player is better than Y than idk what to tell you" or "Are you actually arguing that John Collins and Montrezl Harrell are the same caliber of player??" |
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Apr 28, 2022 19:57:56 GMT
Defensive stats can't be relied on entirely. They are contextual. Eye test is the only true measure. Every serious NBA observer agrees trez is a terrible defensive player So defensive stats can’t be relied upon, but offensive stats are good and can be fully relied upon. Not contextual at all. But we’ll continue to throw numbers out there for the sake of backing up your own arguments. Use RAPTOR and LEBRON measures sometimes, but when a player is high, we’ll throw Hartenstein’s name out there to prove those stats don’t really matter, sometimes. Got it Uh yeah duh offensive stats are more reliable than defensive stats? No stat can be fully relied on without context |
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Post by Andrei Kirilenko on Apr 28, 2022 21:02:36 GMT
I decided to check NBA 2k ratings as a gut check, as I was curious how much our biases actually play into ratings here. Some of the 2k ratings are pretty bad, but here is the general area where Montrezl is ranked:
Montrezl Harrell is a 79 in 2k, and is ranked as the 78th best frontcourt player in the game.
Other frontcourt players with a 79 rating include:
79 LaMarcus Aldridge
79 Lauri Markkanen
79 Kyle Anderson
79 Thomas Bryant
79 Daniel Gafford
79 JaVale McGee
These same players are ranked as follows in D5:
76 LaMarcus Aldridge
79 Lauri Markkanen
77 Kyle Anderson
77 Thomas Bryant
77 Daniel Gafford
76 JaVale McGee
I feel like these 6 players are actually pretty decent comparables for Montrezl, which would put his D5 rating around a 77.
For reference, I also checked John Collins since his name keeps coming up. Collins is ranked 83 in 2k with the following comparables:
83 Evan Mobley
83 Nikola Vucevic
83 Jusuf Nurkic
83 Steven Adams
83 Wendell Carter Jr
83 Jonas Valanciunas
83 Draymond Green
I feel like this list is also a decent representation of comparable players for Collins, but I definitely would not compare Harrell to the guys on this list. These guys are rated anywhere from 80 to 85 in D5.
Anyway, I'm not really trying to draw conclusions here other than these ratings above are how an objectively unbiased source has rated Harrell and Collins. Please do not attack me for this post as I am honestly just trying to come up with some perspective for everyone to consider.
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Post by Tom Izzo on Apr 28, 2022 21:18:38 GMT
Wait do I need to dig into the archives where I argued that we use 2k as objective unbiased ratings only to be ridiculed for that opinion
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Post by Walt Frazier on Apr 30, 2022 0:29:28 GMT
80
(and, bump above closed threads)
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Amare Stoudemire
 Sacramento Kings
Starter
Posts: 2,416 
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Post by Amare Stoudemire on May 2, 2022 15:50:25 GMT
80.75
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Post by George Gervin on May 17, 2022 14:40:13 GMT
THREAD CLOSED.
New Rating = 80 (79.75)
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