Grizzlies - Kings

[Monty Williams]

Apr 24, 2022 20:00:59 GMT Amare Stoudemire said:

I don't think he leaves a championship quality team with all pieces around him for the 10 year max

Unfortunately the higher ups don’t share your sentiments.

[Amare Stoudemire]

There is no higher ups only opinions and like assholes sometimes they stink js

[Ian Noble]

Apr 24, 2022 19:59:01 GMT Monty Williams said:

Apr 24, 2022 18:12:28 GMT Ian Noble said:

Player Agents identify GM dedication towards a re-signing player by the amount of time that player has been on their team. By that logic Gobert is clearly in danger of opting out.

Again if Monty Williams is content to continue knowing this, then I'm morbidly fascinated to see which path this tornado takes - my money is on a downhill trajectory.

Frankly so long as Memphis doesn't include any of their 1st Rounders in a deal I'm relatively ok with it. I'm also mindful that this very sentence may have alerted Monty to the fact he has 1st Rounders so don't get any rash ideas Mr Williams

I accept.

“Player Agents identify GM dedication towards a re-signing player by the amount of time that player has been on their team. By that logic Gobert is clearly in danger of opting out. Again if Monty Williams is content to continue knowing this, then I'm morbidly fascinated to see which path this tornado takes - my money is on a downhill trajectory”.

But I was told multiple times Jokic was leaving regardless of “loyalty”, or how long he’d been on the Grizzlies, which was vindicated by the fact that the team at the time looked as if we’re going in a rebuilding direction. Now all of a sudden loyalty, and time served on an organization matters, and all the other mitigating factors like team strength, 5 year super max vs a 4 year max, etc… are being ignored, or severely undervalued. The Kings are literally the second seed in the west trading away their franchise Center because he believes “they’re a step behind the best teams” (not to throw you under the bus Amare Stoudemire, but it has to be said), yet somehow Gobert is practically a guarantee to leave a team that’s objectively better than the one he’s playing on now, because “loyalty”, and his lack of time served here. Do you guys realize how absurd it is to tear it down, and rebuild with 20 games left in the season as a clear second seed? If anything me trading for Gobert should reassure whatever PA committee will be making judgement on FA’s this off-season that this is the place Gobert needs to be. Not only is he surrounded by elite talent, but we’re willing to give him a 5 year max. Ultimately all I ask, IF, and when Gobert leaves, cause it seems like once again a decision has been predetermined, he joins a better team, because that’s literally the only reason opting out from a team with players that make his job much easier, and stand to win a lot of games, plus declining a 5 year super max makes any sense.

Fair enough you're pissed because I'm being an arse with my replies, but the two things are true: (1) Jokic being the only decent talent on your team after your trades does increase the chances of him leaving and (2) Gobert joining your team with a month left in the regular season also increases the chances he will opt out and leave for nothing.

There's factors at play when you're a GM here. We used to have a one month trading ban on new GMs so they could learn the nuances before making 5 trades in one week. Player Agents weigh a lot of different factors when making Free Agency decisions and a lack of GM loyalty and dedication is a huge factor.

It's nice and fun to tear up a team and make it your own but there's also implications to doing that.

[Monty Williams]

Apr 24, 2022 20:25:15 GMT Ian Noble said:

Apr 24, 2022 19:59:01 GMT Monty Williams said:

“Player Agents identify GM dedication towards a re-signing player by the amount of time that player has been on their team. By that logic Gobert is clearly in danger of opting out. Again if Monty Williams is content to continue knowing this, then I'm morbidly fascinated to see which path this tornado takes - my money is on a downhill trajectory”.

But I was told multiple times Jokic was leaving regardless of “loyalty”, or how long he’d been on the Grizzlies, which was vindicated by the fact that the team at the time looked as if we’re going in a rebuilding direction. Now all of a sudden loyalty, and time served on an organization matters, and all the other mitigating factors like team strength, 5 year super max vs a 4 year max, etc… are being ignored, or severely undervalued. The Kings are literally the second seed in the west trading away their franchise Center because he believes “they’re a step behind the best teams” (not to throw you under the bus Amare Stoudemire, but it has to be said), yet somehow Gobert is practically a guarantee to leave a team that’s objectively better than the one he’s playing on now, because “loyalty”, and his lack of time served here. Do you guys realize how absurd it is to tear it down, and rebuild with 20 games left in the season as a clear second seed? If anything me trading for Gobert should reassure whatever PA committee will be making judgement on FA’s this off-season that this is the place Gobert needs to be. Not only is he surrounded by elite talent, but we’re willing to give him a 5 year max. Ultimately all I ask, IF, and when Gobert leaves, cause it seems like once again a decision has been predetermined, he joins a better team, because that’s literally the only reason opting out from a team with players that make his job much easier, and stand to win a lot of games, plus declining a 5 year super max makes any sense.

Fair enough you're pissed because I'm being an arse with my replies, but the two things are true: (1) Jokic being the only decent talent on your team after your trades does increase the chances of him leaving and (2) Gobert joining your team with a month left in the regular season also increases the chances he will opt out and leave for nothing.

There's factors at play when you're a GM here. We used to have a one month trading ban on new GMs so they could learn the nuances before making 5 trades in one week. Player Agents weigh a lot of different factors when making Free Agency decisions and a lack of GM loyalty and dedication is a huge factor.

It's nice and fun to tear up a team and make it your own but there's also implications to doing that.

Nobodies pissed, this is a sim league at the end of the day so it’s not like I’m losing sleep. I’m just pointing out inconsistencies in logic, and stances. I mean by your same logic, Jokic has a super high chance of leaving Brooklyn this off-season too, correct?

[Jerry West]

This man just compared Brooklyn situation to his.

This isn't even about gobert leaving, it's about him being a max player this year or next year

[Ian Noble]

Apr 24, 2022 20:59:19 GMT Monty Williams said:

Apr 24, 2022 20:25:15 GMT Ian Noble said:

Fair enough you're pissed because I'm being an arse with my replies, but the two things are true: (1) Jokic being the only decent talent on your team after your trades does increase the chances of him leaving and (2) Gobert joining your team with a month left in the regular season also increases the chances he will opt out and leave for nothing.

There's factors at play when you're a GM here. We used to have a one month trading ban on new GMs so they could learn the nuances before making 5 trades in one week. Player Agents weigh a lot of different factors when making Free Agency decisions and a lack of GM loyalty and dedication is a huge factor.

It's nice and fun to tear up a team and make it your own but there's also implications to doing that.

Nobodies pissed, this is a sim league at the end of the day so it’s not like I’m losing sleep. I’m just pointing out inconsistencies in logic, and stances. I mean by your same logic, Jokic has a super high chance of leaving Brooklyn this off-season too, correct?

Sure Brooklyn's taken a gamble and rolled the dice but look at the team that's around Jokic now.

Also Brooklyn's GM has been a member for almost 15 real-life years and there's literally a "Josh Barber Best Trader" award so

[Andrei Kirilenko]

I think the important thing here is that Monty understands the risk of the PO- which it seems like he does. We have a complex league here at D5 with a lot of GMs who have been here several years, so it is only natural to be skeptical of a new person making a bunch of trades. I am actually very impressed with how quickly Monty has grasped the concepts of POs, BRs, etc. Even some of our own GMs still don’t understand how everything works lol.

With that being said, I do think this is an overpay personally due to the risks with Gobert opting out this summer. Any GM who trades for Gobert right now should be able to get a discount due to his upcoming PO decision, but a Monty is here paying full price (or even above full price). Look at other recent trades with stars not on safe contracts- DeRozan was traded for Moses Moody, Beal was traded for some picks, AD was traded for SGA, etc. Gobert should not be commanding more trade value than those guys, so I think that’s what the TC needs to consider here in determining if this is fair.

[Monty Williams]

Apr 24, 2022 21:00:40 GMT Jerry West said:

This man just compared Brooklyn situation to his.

This isn't even about gobert leaving, it's about him being a max player this year or next year

This argument makes more sense than the time served one considering he’s been traded twice this season already, however I’d like to point out that he could’ve easily won DPOY irl again, and he isn’t even 30 yet, I don’t see why he wouldn’t gamble on himself.

[Monty Williams]

Apr 24, 2022 21:43:07 GMT Andrei Kirilenko said:

I think the important thing here is that Monty understands the risk of the PO- which it seems like he does. We have a complex league here at D5 with a lot of GMs who have been here several years, so it is only natural to be skeptical of a new person making a bunch of trades. I am actually very impressed with how quickly Monty has grasped the concepts of POs, BRs, etc. Even some of our own GMs still don’t understand how everything works lol.

With that being said, I do think this is an overpay personally due to the risks with Gobert opting out this summer. Any GM who trades for Gobert right now should be able to get a discount due to his upcoming PO decision, but a Monty is here paying full price (or even above full price). Look at other recent trades with stars not on safe contracts- DeRozan was traded for Moses Moody, Beal was traded for some picks, AD was traded for SGA, etc. Gobert should not be commanding more trade value than those guys, so I think that’s what the TC needs to consider here in determining if this is fair.

This is fair take. I already signed off on it so if it’s accepted, and I lose Gobert that’s cool, but if it’s rejected and Amare Stoudemire wants to revise this that’s cool too. I’m simply arguing Gobert is 29 and in his prime joining up with two other stars also in their prime. Time served shouldn’t be That prevalent in if he resigns considering he wasn’t even on the Kings for a full year. It’s a new situation, but Sacramento was a new situation, they were unwilling to max him, the Grizzlies are. The stability is there, on top of that Kawhi/Gobert/Bam plus friends should be a contender providing everyone is healthy. That’s all I’m saying.

[Walt Frazier]

Thinking this through a bit more... Feel free to tag me again tomorrow.

Where I'm at, is I'm actually more or less okay with the trade... Before the picks are put in.

So, that's my current hold up / need to think a little more. It's likely not enough to reject, but I wanna sit with it one more day.

[Tom Izzo]

Apr 24, 2022 21:26:10 GMT Ian Noble said:

Apr 24, 2022 20:59:19 GMT Monty Williams said:

Nobodies pissed, this is a sim league at the end of the day so it’s not like I’m losing sleep. I’m just pointing out inconsistencies in logic, and stances. I mean by your same logic, Jokic has a super high chance of leaving Brooklyn this off-season too, correct?

Sure Brooklyn's taken a gamble and rolled the dice but look at the team that's around Jokic now.

Also Brooklyn's GM has been a member for almost 15 real-life years and there's literally a "Josh Barber Best Trader" award so

I just want to go on record once more that I adamantly fought against the rhetoric that Jokic was completely gone after trading Mitchell. Josh capitalized on that fear rhetoric. 

With loyalty out the window, per the comments here, and no bird rights attached to Jokic at all, it seems Jokic's free agency is wide open. How interesting

[Tom Izzo]

Alexa, superimpose Jokic's face over Durant's in my signature block

[Gary Payton]

Apr 25, 2022 7:05:52 GMT Tom Izzo said:

Apr 24, 2022 21:26:10 GMT Ian Noble said:

Sure Brooklyn's taken a gamble and rolled the dice but look at the team that's around Jokic now.

Also Brooklyn's GM has been a member for almost 15 real-life years and there's literally a "Josh Barber Best Trader" award so

I just want to go on record once more that I adamantly fought against the rhetoric that Jokic was completely gone after trading Mitchell. Josh capitalized on that fear rhetoric. 

With loyalty out the window, per the comments here, and no bird rights attached to Jokic at all, it seems Jokic's free agency is wide open. How interesting

Loyalty is only out of the window because both players are in fresh situations, thus their decision to re-sign or leave would be strictly down to basketball reasons. Max contracts + great supporting casts seem like a no brainer to me. I’m new in the block so this is just my little opinion, but both players actually fit their new teams like a glove, but I would agree that this is a lot to give up for a player that could potentially leave for free. Seems like the two gms outta revise, and come to a compromise.

Kk going back into my hole now.

[Tom Izzo]

Don't go into your hole we need fresh perspectives besides the discord bandits + myself + Hana

[Walt Frazier]

My preference would be for one of those 1sts to be taken out of the trade. That said, I used to beat this drum and it's not like I am always right, and these always bite the manager. But, the thought for me is just that 1st round picks have more value than this, IMO. And that's in as objective a way as possible, that I say that.

Having said all of that, I'm probably only bringing this up because it's a new manager. I don't think it's enough for a reject, I just wish he'd hold those types of assets a little tighter.

Anyway, Accept for me.

[Amare Stoudemire]

2-0

[Bryan Colangelo]

As long as monty understands the PO option, I accept.

[Amare Stoudemire]

3-0 trade passes

[Monty Williams]

Welcome to the great city of Memphis Rudy! Hopefully our intent to sign you to a long term deal is clear, and we’re able to make a strong impression on you.

[Ian Noble]

Amare Stoudemire needs to release one player.

[Ian Noble]

Trade passed, please update depth charts.

Amare Stoudemire
Monty Williams

[George Gervin]

Apr 25, 2022 7:06:50 GMT Tom Izzo said:

Alexa, superimpose Jokic's face over Durant's in my signature block

Did you actually like your own post lol.

You sit around potshotting about how FA should work, lamenting side line GMing, etc, and yet you have spent months on what amounts to an Overt Tampering Campaign to get Durant to your team. A guy who is 34 years old, on a perennial title contender in this League with arguably one of the best, if not the best, GMs at its helm, but you think continually harping on what KD the mercurial, butthurt sensitive, online fan clapping version did getting to New York to be THE MAN on a team again means he is a shoo in to leave? Pretty sure you’re not gonna frame a pitch as KD subordinating Giannis in priority. You have had him as your signature for months for fuck sakes, but you get mad at the rest of us for narrative framing?