Monty Williams
Former Grizzlies GM
Rookie
Posts: 127
Oct 27, 2023 23:30:42 GMT
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Post by Monty Williams on Apr 22, 2022 15:16:25 GMT
Grizzlies Receive: 88 Rudy Gobert $31,197,382 $33,107,426 81 Buddy Hield $19,000,000 $18,074,742 $17,149,484 Total: $50,197,382 Kings receive: 81 D’Angelo Russell $29,331,375 $31,377,750 $33,424,125 $35,470,50 77 Larry Nance $14,230,739 $15,298,04 77 Saddiq Bey $2,730,900 $2,861,100 $4,388,927 $6,166,443 Total: $46,293,014 2022 Clippers First Round Pick 2023 Detroit Pistons First Round Pick Trade works within the 125% rule Reasoning: Obviously there is some risk here considering Gobert has a PO, however I would like to point out that Gobert is coming up on his 10 year max, and I’d have his birds if he resigns, if I understand the rules correctly. Not only would he get his long term deal, but he’d also be paired with Kawhi, and Bam which would probably form the best defensive front court in the league, and we’d definitely be title contenders. Buddy Hield gives us a sniper that can take some of the scoring load off Kawhi. I love Jokic, but I think a core of Keldon, Hield, Kawhi, Bam, Gobert > Jokic, and Spider Mitchell Amare Stoudemire to confirm |
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Post by Andrei Kirilenko on Apr 22, 2022 15:28:08 GMT
I would just like to point out that the Grizzlies gain approximately $1.6m in salary for this summer in this trade- and they only had $493k of space available under the hard cap after accounting for a 25% max for Bam.
So basically the Grizzlies need to clear ~$1.2m of salary this summer in order to be able to offer Bam a max contract and stay under the hard cap.
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Amare Stoudemire
 Sacramento Kings
Starter
Posts: 2,416 
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Post by Amare Stoudemire on Apr 22, 2022 15:28:49 GMT
I accept I've been playing with the notion all year of keeping Gobert and hoping he opts in but as the year has gone on and I see I'm a tier below the big dogs in D5 I believe the time has come to start doing a little rebuilding on the Kings. This puts me in a good spot with 2 firsts this year and 4 total and 2 firsts next year to go along with my new guy Keon Johnson. I also really like Bey and hope he continues to develop into something special and maybe with a little lottery luck with the clippers pick you never know. Good luck to Monty Williams and the Memphis Grizzlies |
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Monty Williams
Former Grizzlies GM
Rookie
Posts: 127
Oct 27, 2023 23:30:42 GMT
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Post by Monty Williams on Apr 22, 2022 15:31:33 GMT
I would just like to point out that the Grizzlies gain approximately $1.6m in salary for this summer in this trade- and they only had $493k of space available under the hard cap after accounting for a 25% max for Bam. So basically the Grizzlies need to clear ~$1.2m of salary this summer in order to be able to offer Bam a max contract and stay under the hard cap. Correct, I have another move or two aligning designed to shed a nice amount of cap space. |
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Amare Stoudemire
Sacramento Kings
Starter
Posts: 2,416
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Post by Amare Stoudemire on Apr 22, 2022 15:36:57 GMT
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Post by Alex English on Apr 22, 2022 16:11:15 GMT
What's the timeline on our changes to Bird Rights? Tradeable beginning with OSFA 2023 right? So assuming Gobert opts in, Memphis would be able to re-sign him?
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Apr 22, 2022 16:18:32 GMT
So Memphis ended up trading Donovan Mitchell for 20 games of Rudy Gobert, Keldon Johnson, Detriot 2nds and Buddy Hield?
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Amare Stoudemire
Sacramento Kings
Starter
Posts: 2,416
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Post by Amare Stoudemire on Apr 22, 2022 16:21:54 GMT
What's the timeline on our changes to Bird Rights? Tradeable beginning with OSFA 2023 right? So assuming Gobert opts in, Memphis would be able to re-sign him? This is correct |
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Post by James Kay on Apr 22, 2022 16:32:33 GMT
No shot Gobert opts in
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Monty Williams
Former Grizzlies GM
Rookie
Posts: 127
Oct 27, 2023 23:30:42 GMT
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Post by Monty Williams on Apr 22, 2022 16:56:23 GMT
So Memphis ended up trading Donovan Mitchell for 20 games of Rudy Gobert, Keldon Johnson, Detriot 2nds and Buddy Hield? More like Kawhi, Bam, Buddy, Kedon, Poeltl. Gobert re-signing would only be logical. He’s on a good team, and stands to make more money by opting in. Unless you guys just move the goal posts on a case by case basis? |
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Monty Williams
Former Grizzlies GM
Rookie
Posts: 127
Oct 27, 2023 23:30:42 GMT
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Post by Monty Williams on Apr 22, 2022 17:02:49 GMT
Also this is like the second time a PA has essentially let their personal interests supersede “league integrity”. Seems like a conflict of interest. |
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Apr 22, 2022 17:03:20 GMT
So Memphis ended up trading Donovan Mitchell for 20 games of Rudy Gobert, Keldon Johnson, Detriot 2nds and Buddy Hield? More like Kawhi, Bam, Buddy, Kedon, Poeltl. Gobert re-signing would only be logical. He’s on a good team, and stands to make more money by opting in. Unless you guys just move the goal posts on a case by case basis? That was for both Jokic and Mitchell, aka every asset you had |
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Post by Tom Izzo on Apr 22, 2022 17:07:05 GMT
Am I crazy for thinking that Hield - KJ - Kawhi - Bam - Gobert is better than Russell-Mitchell-Jokic?
Granted, Kawhi is injured and a flight risk and Gobert needs to re sign... Idk I'm wrong a lot but I think the former is better than the latter provided they're all retained.
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Post by Alex English on Apr 22, 2022 17:11:53 GMT
Why? D5 has many examples of 9 year vets on good teams that opt in for Bird rights and becoming eligible for the 35% max. |
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Larry Bird
 Indiana Pacers
Starter
Posts: 1,672
Mar 5, 2024 13:29:26 GMT
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Post by Larry Bird on Apr 22, 2022 17:14:02 GMT
So Memphis ended up trading Donovan Mitchell for 20 games of Rudy Gobert, Keldon Johnson, Detriot 2nds and Buddy Hield? Oh, the irony!! |
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Post by James Kay on Apr 22, 2022 17:16:22 GMT
Why? D5 has many examples of 9 year vets on good teams that opt in for Bird rights and becoming eligible for the 35% max. Care to share some? Genuinely curious. I know that PG opted in for me, but it's not like I acquired him mid-season to pair with another guard/wing. I think Lillard also did? Hasn't he been with CHI for years and years? Here, Gobert is being acquired by a team in turmoil and they already have 2 centers on the team. In any case, what most players should be doing in this situation is opting out and signing a 1+1, even if they want to remain with the team. The only reason Gobert would opt in is because he cant stay if he opts out (because of our insane BR rules), but what loyalty does he have to Memphis over any of the other teams with cap space this off-season? |
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Post by James Kay on Apr 22, 2022 17:19:52 GMT
Also this is like the second time a PA has essentially let their personal interests supersede “league integrity”. Seems like a conflict of interest to use PA’s on a trade committee anyways. Im not on the trade committee. I've actually only been a PA once, and anyway PAs dont decide POs (or at least I don't think they do - I've never decided POs, there's some other group for that I think? Possibly the TC, which again, I am not on.) I know you're new, I'm not blaming you for not knowing those things. Just letting you know. It's just my opinion that Gobert would opt out. But we'll see. |
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Post by Tom Izzo on Apr 22, 2022 17:19:56 GMT
Why? D5 has many examples of 9 year vets on good teams that opt in for Bird rights and becoming eligible for the 35% max. Care to share some? Genuinely curious. I know that PG opted in for me, but it's not like I acquired him mid-season to pair with another guard/wing. I think Lillard also did? Hasn't he been with CHI for years and years? Here, Gobert is being acquired by a team in turmoil and they already have 2 centers on the team. In any case, what most players should be doing in this situation is opting out and signing a 1+1, even if they want to remain with the team. The only reason Gobert would opt in is because he cant stay if he opts out (because of our insane BR rules), but what loyalty does he have to Memphis over any of the other teams with cap space this off-season? If Gobert opts in Memphis gets BRs. A 1+1 would put Gobert around ~$36M next year vs $33M. But by opting in he gets the supermax with BRs with Memphis. Opting out and going the 1+1 route takes him out of a 5 year super max completely. I feel like if I'm Gobert I'm taking the $3M hit to open up a 5 year supermax as an option, just to have it an option next year. |
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Post by James Kay on Apr 22, 2022 17:24:55 GMT
Care to share some? Genuinely curious. I know that PG opted in for me, but it's not like I acquired him mid-season to pair with another guard/wing. I think Lillard also did? Hasn't he been with CHI for years and years? Here, Gobert is being acquired by a team in turmoil and they already have 2 centers on the team. In any case, what most players should be doing in this situation is opting out and signing a 1+1, even if they want to remain with the team. The only reason Gobert would opt in is because he cant stay if he opts out (because of our insane BR rules), but what loyalty does he have to Memphis over any of the other teams with cap space this off-season? If Gobert opts in Memphis gets BRs. A 1+1 would put Gobert around ~$36M next year vs $33M. But by opting in he gets the supermax with BRs with Memphis. Opting out and going the 1+1 route takes him out of a 5 year super max completely. Ah, good point, I forgot that gaining BRs also comes with gaining the 5 year max. Still, he's got to believe he's going to be worth a 5 year "supermax" after this next season. For some superstars its a no-brainer, but for Gobert it's a little less certain. |
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Monty Williams
Former Grizzlies GM
Rookie
Posts: 127
Oct 27, 2023 23:30:42 GMT
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Post by Monty Williams on Apr 22, 2022 17:27:51 GMT
Why? D5 has many examples of 9 year vets on good teams that opt in for Bird rights and becoming eligible for the 35% max. Care to share some? Genuinely curious. I know that PG opted in for me, but it's not like I acquired him mid-season to pair with another guard/wing. I think Lillard also did? Hasn't he been with CHI for years and years? Here, Gobert is being acquired by a team in turmoil and they already have 2 centers on the team. In any case, what most players should be doing in this situation is opting out and signing a 1+1, even if they want to remain with the team. The only reason Gobert would opt in is because he cant stay if he opts out (because of our insane BR rules), but what loyalty does he have to Memphis over any of the other teams with cap space this off-season? We are NOT in turmoil, we got better, objectively speaking. Also Bam plays the 4 quite often. His one all star appearance came in a season where he primarily played at Power Forward. He wouldn’t be opting in for loyalty reasons anyways. Logically he’d be on a competitive team, and able to make more money with an extra year of guaranteed max dollars. |
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Post by Tom Izzo on Apr 22, 2022 17:29:00 GMT
I think if you're Gobert you take the gamble. It only costs you $3M in salary next year.
Unless you want to go the "lock in the bag now" mentality. To me, it's:
1) Opt in and open up the 5 year supermax next year as an option
2) Opt out and sign a 4 year max now
Option 2 has him losing out on dozens of millions though
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Apr 22, 2022 17:32:08 GMT
Care to share some? Genuinely curious. I know that PG opted in for me, but it's not like I acquired him mid-season to pair with another guard/wing. I think Lillard also did? Hasn't he been with CHI for years and years? Here, Gobert is being acquired by a team in turmoil and they already have 2 centers on the team. In any case, what most players should be doing in this situation is opting out and signing a 1+1, even if they want to remain with the team. The only reason Gobert would opt in is because he cant stay if he opts out (because of our insane BR rules), but what loyalty does he have to Memphis over any of the other teams with cap space this off-season? We are NOT in turmoil, we got better, objectively speaking. Also Bam plays the 4 quite often. His one all star appearance came in a season where he primarily played at Power Forward. He wouldn’t be opting in for loyalty reasons anyways. Logically he’d be on a competitive team, and able to make more money with an extra year of guaranteed max dollars. You traded almost every player on your team within a week. By definition you are in turmoil |
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Post by James Kay on Apr 22, 2022 17:35:23 GMT
I think if you're Gobert you take the gamble. It only costs you $3M in salary next year. Unless you want to go the "lock in the bag now" mentality. To me, it's: 1) Opt in and open up the 5 year supermax next year as an option 2) Opt out and sign a 4 year max now Option 2 has him losing out on dozens of millions though This is certainly one way to look at it, and is reasonable, but he could lose even more if his play declines or if he, IRL, gets traded away to a team that totally changes D5 perception of him. You could just as reasonably put the options like this: 1) Opt in and hope you are worth even more a year from now; 2) Opt out and secure the bag right now for $162M over 4 years. Option 1 has him risking dozens of millions. |
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Monty Williams
Former Grizzlies GM
Rookie
Posts: 127
Oct 27, 2023 23:30:42 GMT
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Post by Monty Williams on Apr 22, 2022 17:46:04 GMT
We are NOT in turmoil, we got better, objectively speaking. Also Bam plays the 4 quite often. His one all star appearance came in a season where he primarily played at Power Forward. He wouldn’t be opting in for loyalty reasons anyways. Logically he’d be on a competitive team, and able to make more money with an extra year of guaranteed max dollars. You traded almost every player on your team within a week. By definition you are in turmoil Turmoil would be if we did this, and the team got drastically worse. Our direction is clear. I’m not trading for the sake of trading. |
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Post by Alex English on Apr 22, 2022 22:18:24 GMT
Why? D5 has many examples of 9 year vets on good teams that opt in for Bird rights and becoming eligible for the 35% max. Care to share some? Genuinely curious. I know that PG opted in for me, but it's not like I acquired him mid-season to pair with another guard/wing. I think Lillard also did? Hasn't he been with CHI for years and years? Here, Gobert is being acquired by a team in turmoil and they already have 2 centers on the team. In any case, what most players should be doing in this situation is opting out and signing a 1+1, even if they want to remain with the team. The only reason Gobert would opt in is because he cant stay if he opts out (because of our insane BR rules), but what loyalty does he have to Memphis over any of the other teams with cap space this off-season? PG and LaMarcus Aldridge are the two controversial examples that always come to mind, but there have definitely been a few others. Every context is different of course, but if a team is good then there is financial incentive and basketball incentive to play out the final year become eligible for a 5 year 35% max. Loyalty doesn't necessarily have to come into it, depending on what the expected free agency market might look like. I'm sure there will be a full Gobert debate to figure out where things stand with him, my point is once we cross that bridge, there's definitely a shot. |
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Chris Webber
Assistant
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Posts: 159
Mar 10, 2024 19:25:38 GMT
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Post by Chris Webber on Apr 23, 2022 20:15:17 GMT
I accept this trade
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Monty Williams
Former Grizzlies GM
Rookie
Posts: 127
Oct 27, 2023 23:30:42 GMT
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Post by Monty Williams on Apr 24, 2022 16:18:06 GMT
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Post by Ian Noble on Apr 24, 2022 18:12:28 GMT
Player Agents identify GM dedication towards a re-signing player by the amount of time that player has been on their team. By that logic Gobert is clearly in danger of opting out. Again if Monty Williams is content to continue knowing this, then I'm morbidly fascinated to see which path this tornado takes - my money is on a downhill trajectory. Frankly so long as Memphis doesn't include any of their 1st Rounders in a deal I'm relatively ok with it. I'm also mindful that this very sentence may have alerted Monty to the fact he has 1st Rounders so don't get any rash ideas Mr Williams   I accept. |
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Monty Williams
Former Grizzlies GM
Rookie
Posts: 127
Oct 27, 2023 23:30:42 GMT
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Post by Monty Williams on Apr 24, 2022 19:59:01 GMT
Player Agents identify GM dedication towards a re-signing player by the amount of time that player has been on their team. By that logic Gobert is clearly in danger of opting out. Again if Monty Williams is content to continue knowing this, then I'm morbidly fascinated to see which path this tornado takes - my money is on a downhill trajectory. Frankly so long as Memphis doesn't include any of their 1st Rounders in a deal I'm relatively ok with it. I'm also mindful that this very sentence may have alerted Monty to the fact he has 1st Rounders so don't get any rash ideas Mr Williams I accept. “Player Agents identify GM dedication towards a re-signing player by the amount of time that player has been on their team. By that logic Gobert is clearly in danger of opting out. Again if Monty Williams is content to continue knowing this, then I'm morbidly fascinated to see which path this tornado takes - my money is on a downhill trajectory”. But I was told multiple times Jokic was leaving regardless of “loyalty”, or how long he’d been on the Grizzlies, which was vindicated by the fact that the team at the time looked as if we’re going in a rebuilding direction. Now all of a sudden loyalty, and time served on an organization matters, and all the other mitigating factors like team strength, 5 year super max vs a 4 year max, etc… are being ignored, or severely undervalued. The Kings are literally the second seed in the west trading away their franchise Center because he believes “they’re a step behind the best teams” (not to throw you under the bus Amare Stoudemire, but it has to be said), yet somehow Gobert is practically a guarantee to leave a team that’s objectively better than the one he’s playing on now, because “loyalty”, and his lack of time served here. Do you guys realize how absurd it is to tear it down, and rebuild with 20 games left in the season as a clear second seed? If anything me trading for Gobert should reassure whatever PA committee will be making judgement on FA’s this off-season that this is the place Gobert needs to be. Not only is he surrounded by elite talent, but we’re willing to give him a 5 year max. Ultimately all I ask, IF, and when Gobert leaves, cause it seems like once again a decision has been predetermined, he joins a better team, because that’s literally the only reason opting out from a team with players that make his job much easier, and stand to win a lot of games, plus declining a 5 year super max makes any sense. |
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Amare Stoudemire
Sacramento Kings
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Posts: 2,416
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Post by Amare Stoudemire on Apr 24, 2022 20:00:59 GMT
I don't think he leaves a championship quality team with all pieces around him for the 10 year max
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