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Post by George Gervin on Feb 10, 2021 15:16:28 GMT
Hard to believe it's been two full years since the last time that Bradley Beal was stockwatched, but boy has he had an insane two years. In that stretch, Beal has played 99 games and has posted some monster numbers in that stretch:
2018-19 (from latest SW to season's end)(22 games): 25.5 PPG, 5.6 APG, 4.9 RPG, 1.7 SPG, 0.6 BPG on 47/32/75 shooting splits on 58% TS, 7.6 WS, and a 2.9 BPM
2019-20 (57 games): 30.5 PPG, 6.1 APG, 4.2 RPG, 1.2 SPG, 0.4 BPG on 46/35/84 shooting splits on 58% TS, 5.1 WS, and a 2.9 BPM
2020-21 (20 games): 33.3 PPG, 4.5 APG, 5.1 RPG, 1.3 SPG, 0.6 BPG on 47/34/88 shooting splits on 58% TS, 2.0 WS, and a 5.1 BPM
The obvious advances are on scoring, where since his last SW he's upped his averages on that front by 8 PPG while maintaining his efficiency. For this season, the list of players historically who have scored at the volume and efficiency that Beal has is four: Beal, Harden, George Gervin, and Michael Jordan. He's also a career 41% catch-and-shoot 3 PM player, making him more than just a guy that has morphed into an on-ball monster, but one who is an outstanding off-ball player as well. I know he's a high 80s right now, but it feels he's reached a tier (in spite of his dysfunctional franchise) where he should be in the upper echelon of player ratings.
Current: 87
Proposed: 92
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Post by Jerry West on Feb 10, 2021 15:20:35 GMT
89
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Post by Jared Montini on Feb 10, 2021 15:25:30 GMT
89
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Post by Andrei Kirilenko on Feb 10, 2021 15:27:36 GMT
This guy is obviously cooking but we've gotta go back to the age-old argument of whether or not we are gonna rate guys 90+ if they aren't even sniffing the playoffs.
I also present to you Kyrie Irving (90) stats for comparison:
Beal: 33.3 ppg, 5.1 rpg, 4.5 apg, 1.3 spg, 0.6 bpg, 3.1 TOV. Shooting splits of 47/34/89 Kyrie: 27.5 ppg, 4.6 rpg, 5.8 apg, 1.0 spg, 0.8 bpg, 2.5 TOV. Shooting splits of 53/41/94
They have extremely similar stats except for shooting percentages, where Kyrie blows Beal out of the water. It might not mean a ton on the Nets this year, but Kyrie is also doing it on a contender. I think taking into account the full picture, there's no way Kyrie isn't 1-2 points higher than Beal.
So with all that being said, I don't think we can go any higher than 89 for Beal, so that's my vote.
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Post by Ian Noble on Feb 10, 2021 15:28:40 GMT
Similar to the old Kevin Love stockwatch back in the day, and other players since, to me it feels wrong for a player to get a 90+ rating when their team has likely zero chance of making the playoffs / ever making the playoffs any time soon.
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Glenn Robinson
Milwaukee Bucks
Starter
Posts: 1,226
Mar 2, 2024 5:20:47 GMT
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Post by Glenn Robinson on Feb 10, 2021 15:38:46 GMT
Similar to the old Kevin Love stockwatch back in the day, and other players since, to me it feels wrong for a player to get a 90+ rating when their team has likely zero chance of making the playoffs / ever making the playoffs any time soon. John Wall has been chillin in the 90's bracket for years on those bad Wizard teams.
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Post by Chauncey Billups on Feb 10, 2021 16:06:16 GMT
Their team shouldn’t have to be in the playoffs for them to be in the 90+ tier of ratings. That shouldn’t be a qualification. If he’s playing like a 90+, then vote that. Basketball is one of the most team oriented sports. It’s not solely on Beal’s shoulders that the Wizards suck.
He’s balling out and his rating should reflect that.
Also, Kyrie SHOULD have higher shooting splits. He has KD and Harden on the floor. That tends to open up a lot more space.
Kyrie’s shooting splits last year: 48/39/92
91
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Post by Jared Montini on Feb 10, 2021 16:13:58 GMT
I agree 90+ Ratings can be given to players not on winning teams, I just don’t see Beal as a top 15 player which is why I’m going 89. He very much could get a 90 eventually, I just don’t see him as one right now. The wins don’t play a large part in my voting tho
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Post by Bryan Colangelo on Feb 10, 2021 16:46:06 GMT
92
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Amare Stoudemire
Sacramento Kings
Starter
Posts: 2,416
Apr 14, 2024 11:04:23 GMT
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Post by Amare Stoudemire on Feb 10, 2021 16:46:15 GMT
91
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Post by Ian Noble on Feb 10, 2021 17:25:21 GMT
Similar to the old Kevin Love stockwatch back in the day, and other players since, to me it feels wrong for a player to get a 90+ rating when their team has likely zero chance of making the playoffs / ever making the playoffs any time soon. John Wall has been chillin in the 90's bracket for years on those bad Wizard teams. Thankfully I rated him an 89 dynasty5ive.proboards.com/post/64515/thread
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Post by Arvydas Sabonis on Feb 10, 2021 17:43:09 GMT
91
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Feb 10, 2021 17:58:30 GMT
90
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Post by Tom Izzo on Feb 10, 2021 18:26:30 GMT
90
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Post by Steve Nash on Feb 10, 2021 19:04:44 GMT
90
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Post by James Kay on Feb 10, 2021 23:06:28 GMT
I think anyone who watches Beal knows that he probably isn't a 92, but he's pretty close. His scoring is absolutely insane.
I think the unfavorable comparison to Kyrie is wrong. Is Kyrie that much more of a winning player? Nets are 9-8 when Kyrie plays. Only one of those wins came without Durant or Harden. Sure, he's more efficient (over these ~20 games) but Beal scores more points, and played with 0 stars last year and an injured Westbrook for half the games this year.
The state of the Washington Wizards basketball product needs to be considered - fans of the league constantly lambast Scott Brooks as one of the absolute worst coaches, but conveniently forget about that when we ask why Beal doesn't win.
Outside of Russ and Beal, this roster is absolute garbage. Far and away the worst roster in the league. Thomas Bryant, who probably wouldn't have even started anywhere else in the league, was their third best player and even he is out injured. 30% of the team's minutes have gone to players shooting sub 40% from the field. They allow 120 points per game, the most in the league. Are we going to pin that all on Beal (not to mention that the next worst defensive is the Nets, so why should Kyrie get a pass at 90 and not Beal?)
90.
89.
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Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on Feb 10, 2021 23:30:32 GMT
91
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Post by Andrei Kirilenko on Feb 11, 2021 0:29:29 GMT
I think the unfavorable comparison to Kyrie is wrong. Is Kyrie that much more of a winning player? Nets are 9-8 when Kyrie plays. Only one of those wins came without Durant or Harden. Sure, he's more efficient (over these ~20 games) but Beal scores more points, and played with 0 stars last year and an injured Westbrook for half the games this year. This is insane, sure Kyrie is 9-8 but Beal is 6-15. And Kyrie isn't just more efficient over 20 games, he's more efficient over every single season in their careers. And Kyrie played with 0 stars last year and put up 27/6/5 on better efficiency than Beal. And had a better winning percentage last year than Beal has this year. And gets more assists and less turnovers. And has been a better defender his entire career. Do I need to go on? Is the differential between 33 and 28 ppg over a 20 game stretch so significant that yall actually think Beal should be rated higher? Kyrie has literally led a team to a championship and you are questioning if he is a winning player... I'm honestly dumbfounded on how to respond to the Kyrie slander in this league sometimes. Like yea maybe his personality sucks, but that's not what we are supposed to be rating players on. We had people in the Jamal Murray thread saying he is better than Kyrie. How do I even respond to that lol And my last point here, if Beal is a 92 (as multiple GMs are voting), then what is Lillard? What is Doncic? Can everyone just take a step back and realize who they are rating Beal higher than or equal to?
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Post by James Kay on Feb 11, 2021 1:54:17 GMT
. This is insane, sure Kyrie is 9-8 but Beal is 6-15. . . Kyrie has literally led a team to a championship and you are questioning if he is a winning player.... Yeah, he's 9-8 with KD and Harden, lol. I never questioned whether he was a winning player - I just asked if he is that much more of a winning player than Beal. Kyrie played with 0 stars last year and put up 27/6/5 on better efficiency than Beal. And had a better winning percentage last year than Beal has this year. And gets more assists and less turnovers. Kyrie played in just 20 games last year, and was 8-12 over that stretch. The Nets were 27-25 without him. Winning record without him, losing record with him. All I'm arguing against is Kyrie getting this "winning player" moniker while Beal gets a reputation as a losing player. Beal led the league in scoring over the last half of the season, averaging 34 points over the last 25 games, I think he can get a bit of a bump. After taking a closer look at their stats, though, I will revise my vote to 89.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Feb 11, 2021 4:42:18 GMT
90
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Post by Arvydas Sabonis on Feb 11, 2021 8:46:42 GMT
From the approx 15 players rated over 90, how many would realistically able to lead almost any trash team to playoffs? I think it's the top 5 at best. If you replace Beal with one PG13, Kyrie, Jimmy, Embiid, or even AD I don't think it's going to move them from trash to playoffs. Maybe they are closer to the 8th seed, but still it's not going to make huge difference. It's not easy as we see that now with Curry and GSW, it was the same with AD and Pelicans in the past.
So, I don't think it's a good argument that you can be over 90 in a playoff team only. For me Beal is at the moment slightly better than Kyrie, so that's why I voted 91. When comparing to others in that range; Dame (91) and Luka (92) could imho be pumped up with few points, and Wall (91) needs to be reduced. Westbrook (93) is also in my rankings just below Dame and Luka, but maybe he needs the extra points just to make the build right
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Tim Duncan
Former Jazz GM
Sophomore
Posts: 482
Mar 9, 2022 22:04:51 GMT
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Post by Tim Duncan on Feb 12, 2021 13:19:03 GMT
89
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Post by Mike Krzyzewski on Feb 13, 2021 19:20:50 GMT
89.5
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Post by Mark Price on Feb 13, 2021 21:11:00 GMT
89
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Post by Walt Frazier on Feb 19, 2021 2:29:06 GMT
THREAD CLOSED
Raise to a 90
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