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Post by Tom Izzo on Apr 19, 2020 9:18:56 GMT
I feel like we just increased Butler. So maybe I'll be ridiculed for this. But I was reading some NBA player rankings earlier and someone brought up Butler regressing so I looked him up, because I wasn't completely familiar to be honest.
PPG: 20.2 APG: 6.1 RPG: 6.6 FG%: 45.4% 3PT: 24.8%
Butler has dropped exactly 9% points in his 3 point shot from last season.
Butler NBA player ranks:
PPG: 34th APG: 26th RPG: 51st
In players taking over 2 total 3 point shots a game, he ranks nearly last in the entire league. He's behind MKG, Al Farouq Aminu, Markelle Fultz. He is ahead of Steph Curry on this season though 😝
I think Butler is still an amazing player for sure. And he's helped lead Miami to a good 41-24 record. 4th in the East, a top 10 record in the league at this moment. But he's currently the 11th highest rated player in our league. Players rated behind him:
Jayson Tatum 85 DeMar Derozan 88 Bradley Beal 87 Nikola Jokic 90 Russell Westbrook 90 Karl Anthony Towns 88 Jrue Holiday 87 Klay Thompson 85 Pascal Siakim 88 Khris Middleton 87 Kyrie Irving 90
Current rating: 91 Proposed: 88
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Post by George Gervin on Apr 19, 2020 10:34:16 GMT
I think Butler is still an amazing player for sure. And he's helped lead Miami to a good 41-24 record. 4th in the East, a top 10 record in the league at this moment. But he's currently the 11th highest rated player in our league. Players rated behind him:Jayson Tatum 85 DeMar Derozan 88 Bradley Beal 87 Nikola Jokic 90 Russell Westbrook 90 Karl Anthony Towns 88 Jrue Holiday 87 Klay Thompson 85 Pascal Siakim 88 Khris Middleton 87 Kyrie Irving 90 Of these guys you have on this list, one (Westbrook) I think is set to be at 93 when his adjustments are made, so I’d toss him from the argument. Of the rest, the only legitimate beef to me is Jokic, who honestly should be in the 93-95 range. The rest are either woefully bad on defense compared to Butler/haven’t shown to be “winning guys” (KAT, Beal), aren’t the 1st option/receiving Number 1 option defensive attention (Tatum, Middleton, DeRozan, Holiday), or are injured (Thompson, Irving). Siakim vs Butler is an interesting argument, but I’d demur towards Jimmy on the basis of playoff success as a focal point as opposed to Siakim having some games in last years playoff run for Toronto where he flat out disappeared. Siakim was on a path to likely surpass Butler, but not sure he’s done it enough over enough time to do so. In short, no change in overall rating to me, but maybe he needs a closer look on build to tank his 3PT down and adjust those points elsewhere.
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Post by Tom Izzo on Apr 19, 2020 11:22:53 GMT
I'd still say he should be rated above or equal to most of the players listed here. But is he 6 ratings better than Tatum, 4 better than Beal, better than Kyrie?
Is he the 11th best player in the league today?
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Post by Jerry West on Apr 19, 2020 11:30:19 GMT
I'm up for voting a 95 on Jokic
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Post by George Gervin on Apr 19, 2020 11:55:59 GMT
I'd still say he should be rated above or equal to most of the players listed here. But is he 6 ratings better than Tatum, 4 better than Beal, better than Kyrie? Is he the 11th best player in the league today? For those three you just mentioned: - Butler outpaces all three on WS, WS/48, and BPM despite being the lowest usage player of the four
- As far as VORP is concerned, the guy closest to him is Tatum, but he’s well ahead of Beal and Irving
- On defense, Beal is a -2.4 BPM, Tatum barely crests neutral (0.6), and Irving is a 1.0 vs Butler has never had a negative defensive score by BPM in his career (worst was 0.5 his rookie year, and he’s a 1.3 this year).
As far as where he stands in the overall league, 11th by rating is probably too high. But there are guys— Jokic the prime example— who are likely lower and need to be elevated. But juxtaposed to those three, Butler is the best all around player and creates the most impact by the numbers with the least amount of usage.
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Post by Tom Izzo on Apr 19, 2020 23:15:18 GMT
Yeah and I think Butler should still be a very highly rated player but I just wasn't sure if 20/6/6 with a 24% 3PT shot warranted a 91
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Post by Tom Izzo on Apr 19, 2020 23:19:05 GMT
I'm up for voting a 95 on Jokic I love Jokic, post the thread. Idk if I'd go 95 but he's insanely talented
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Post by Jerry West on Apr 19, 2020 23:41:11 GMT
I'm up for voting a 95 on Jokic I love Jokic, post the thread. Idk if I'd go 95 but he's insanely talented When is such high-rated players it's usually for the GM's to put it up themselves. Personally for me he is right on that tier under Giannis, LBJ, Kawhi, Curry and Harden.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Apr 20, 2020 0:20:10 GMT
FTR, Butler's 3pt rating was already dropped to a 50 when he was bumped up to a 91 OVR
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Post by Walt Frazier on May 8, 2020 1:12:52 GMT
THREAD CLOSED
No Change, not even going to re-work him since I just changed him and his 3pt is already low.
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Post by George Gervin on Oct 10, 2020 17:14:07 GMT
Might be worth reviving the Butler discussion to bump him up from a 91 as opposed to this original thread proposing to bump him down. In my mind there’s no way Butler should be rated below guys like Westbrook, PG, and Embiid based on how his last three months have gone.
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