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Post by Jerry West on Feb 7, 2020 5:12:39 GMT
Current: 87
Proposed: 82
Just want to know where everyone stands on this, might be the alone in this one. He is and All-time great rebounder. Full stop. He is average protecting the rim at best, his defensive stats are inflated by his rebounding and he is honestly an negative on offense (which is backed up by every advanced metric). I'm not sure he deserves an 87 rating to compared to other guys. He should still obviously have a high rating, but he isn't better than recent stockwatched players like Tatum, Ingram, Lowry, Kemba, etc. He is just an anomaly due to how great a rebounder he is.
Stats:
17.8 - 15.8 - 2.8 - 2.0 - 1.7 on 53/05/58.
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Post by Tom Izzo on Feb 7, 2020 5:17:24 GMT
I'll go 85.7. He's not an 87, but he's great at what he does. 82 is a bit of a disservice.
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Post by George Gervin on Feb 7, 2020 9:49:27 GMT
Hard to argue less than an 85 given where some other guys— Capela and Adams for example— being at that same level, and I wouldn’t say Drummond is worse than them. You’d rather have both those guys before Drummond on your team, but as Walt’s said before, ratings are derived from production more than skill/impact to a team, and it’s hard to ignore some off his raw stats
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Post by Jared Montini on Feb 7, 2020 9:59:32 GMT
83
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Post by Jerry West on Feb 7, 2020 10:02:14 GMT
Hard to argue less than an 85 given where some other guys— Capela and Adams for example— being at that same level, and I wouldn’t say Drummond is worse than them. You’d rather have both those guys before Drummond on your team, but as Walt’s said before, ratings are derived from production more than skill/impact to a team, and it’s hard to ignore some off his raw stats Not sure if Capela and Adams are worth and 85 either when you look at others 85 in the league. If we maxed rebounding out and gave him some decent defensive stats wouldn't he average stats close to real life due to 2nd chance points he would get? It's not like his shooting percetanges are great either. |
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Feb 7, 2020 14:05:59 GMT
82 biggest empty stats guy in the league. Everytime I watch him he makes so many mental mistakes that put his team in a bad position.
Very overrated among the general public. Given what he was just traded for, NBA GMs understand what he is
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Amare Stoudemire
 Sacramento Kings
Starter
Posts: 2,416 
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Post by Amare Stoudemire on Feb 7, 2020 15:06:03 GMT
His advanced stats are great, so are his raw stats
Your seriously gonna stock watch Drummond bc of that stupid real life trade, and your feelings, lmao
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Post by James Kay on Feb 7, 2020 15:36:30 GMT
82 biggest empty stats guy in the league. Everytime I watch him he makes so many mental mistakes that put his team in a bad position. Very overrated among the general public. Given what he was just traded for, NBA GMs understand what he is Someone's still upset they traded like 3 first rounders for Drummond  |
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Feb 7, 2020 15:57:14 GMT
82 biggest empty stats guy in the league. Everytime I watch him he makes so many mental mistakes that put his team in a bad position. Very overrated among the general public. Given what he was just traded for, NBA GMs understand what he is Someone's still upset they traded like 3 first rounders for Drummond But I got future HOFer Thon Maker when I traded him! (and proceeded to trade Thon for Trae Young) |
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Post by James Kay on Feb 7, 2020 15:57:15 GMT
I think Drummond actually might be somewhat underrated.
He has never had a quality team around him. Ever.
The best PG he ever had playing next to him was 15-16 Reggie Jackson? Maybe a stint from Brandon Jennings in 13-14? The best teammate he ever had was a hobbled Blake Griffin who came in and essentially took over most of Drummond's role in orchestrating the offense. That 17-18 season Drummond was really blossoming as a play-creator, averaging 4 assists and rising the games before Griffin arrived.
Over the years he's really improved his defense, it's not just empty stocks anymore. He's led the league in Defensive Win Shares the past two years (17-18 and 18-19). In 17-18 he led the league in Defensive Rating and Defensive Box Plus Minus as well. Look at these Detroit teams and tell me the best defensive player he's shared the court with. Stanley Johnson? Thon Maker? These are guys with significantly negative net ratings - and they're not even that good on defense.
This decrease thread is honestly ridiculous, you guys have such drastic over-reactions. Drummond's currently averaging 18 pts (career high), 15.8 rebounds (.2 from career high) 2.8 assists (.2 from career high) 2 steals (career high) 1.7 blocks (.2 from career high), leading the league in every rebounding stat known to man.
And those that point to his somewhat "low" FG% - 53% - watch some games and you'll see how many of those are simply Drummond tapping the ball to himself off the glass to get better position. He has so many FGA that are not even FGA, and more, he is rebounding his own misses which IMO shouldn't really affect a players' efficiency.
Finally, you are all once again ignoring the way our ratings work. Drummond has so many points to spread around as he is one of the best rebounders and playmaking bigs and he has so many athletic gifts.
I'd vote no change.
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Post by James Kay on Feb 7, 2020 16:01:51 GMT
Now that he's on the Cavs we get to finally see what he looks like on a good team /s
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Post by Jerry West on Feb 7, 2020 19:08:52 GMT
His advanced stats are great, so are his raw stats Your seriously gonna stock watch Drummond bc of that stupid real life trade, and your feelings, lmao His advanced stats are negative on offense and slightly around +1.5 on defense despite the rebounding inflating them. Is it that controversial? To think that Drummond isnt better than some guys we stock watched under 87 that have are serious pieces in contenders and actually all stars? If enough people vote no change it will remain unchanged, just wanted everyone's opinion on this |
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Post by Jerry West on Feb 7, 2020 19:15:03 GMT
See if anyone is being biased here is you. This has even nothing to do with RoCo, Drummond was traded for a 2nd round pick. Also I'm getting the stats from PIPM and Raptor, probably the 2 best advanced stats out there.
You cant tell me that you think Drummond is a better player than Kemba, Lowry or Tatum. 3 players that you voted 85 for
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Post by Jerry West on Feb 7, 2020 19:19:03 GMT
And your stats are wrong as well lol, this is about the third time youve posted some crazy stat in a stockwatch and ive found youve been wrong! You see that's just not cool to point things at people without being able to back it up. projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-nba-player-ratings/You can see drummond here a negative 2.5 on offense and positive 1.7 on defense for a total of -0.7 www.bball-index.com/current-pipm/Here once again, negative on offense, plus 1.9 on defense, obviously inflated by rebounding. But feel free to point out where this stats are made up |
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Amare Stoudemire
Sacramento Kings
Starter
Posts: 2,416
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Post by Amare Stoudemire on Feb 7, 2020 19:20:21 GMT
Sorry to tell you, but yea i do
And im not messing with you and this what he got traded for irl nba, bc no one wants to pay him a huge contract with everyone having little cap this upcoming off season and everyone saving for 2021 off season
That has no braring on a stock watch or a rating for a nba live game/sim
You vote stockwatches on performance and stats!
And yes in the critical outcome of a game, and what he can provide defensive ly
He his better than all 3 of those guys you listed
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Post by Jerry West on Feb 7, 2020 19:22:53 GMT
Sorry to tell you, but yea i do And im not messing with you and this what he got traded for irl nba, bc no one wants to pay him a huge contract with everyone having little cap this upcoming off season and everyone saving for 2021 off season That has no braring on a stock watch or a rating for a nba live game/sim You vote stockwatches on performance and stats! And yes in the critical outcome of a game, and what he can provide defensive ly He his better than all 3 of those guys you listed You believing that Drummond is better than Walker, Lowry or Tatum is something. But I'm not going to discuss you on this, you accusing me of making up stats because you cant search them yourself and this opinion that is certainly something makes my point clearer. |
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Amare Stoudemire
Sacramento Kings
Starter
Posts: 2,416
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Post by Amare Stoudemire on Feb 7, 2020 19:30:58 GMT
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Amare Stoudemire
Sacramento Kings
Starter
Posts: 2,416
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Post by Amare Stoudemire on Feb 7, 2020 19:42:03 GMT
And I wondering🤔🤔🤔🤔
How many GM's here would take Drummond off my hands for what the Cavs paid?🤔🤔🤔
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Post by Jerry West on Feb 7, 2020 19:53:28 GMT
And I wondering🤔🤔🤔🤔 How many GM's here would take Drummond off my hands for what the Cavs paid?🤔🤔🤔 Funnily enough he has basically the same contract in real life and in D5 and what they got for him was 2 expirings and a 2nd. And those guys do this for a leaving 24/7 and are smarter and probably way more qualified than any of us |
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Amare Stoudemire
Sacramento Kings
Starter
Posts: 2,416
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Post by Amare Stoudemire on Feb 7, 2020 21:35:56 GMT
87
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Kevin Hollis
Former Thunder GM for 7 years
All Star
Posts: 2,838
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Post by Kevin Hollis on Feb 7, 2020 22:04:31 GMT
85
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Post by Walt Frazier on Feb 10, 2020 3:33:42 GMT
Will be curious to see what he does in Cleveland. I'll go 86.3
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Post by Tom Izzo on Feb 24, 2020 22:52:17 GMT
Drummond's assist ratio is not 19.5. So now I'm questioning some of these other numbers
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Feb 24, 2020 22:52:18 GMT
Andre Drummond/Mystery player Off Rating: Drummond: 107.0 Mystery: 113.6 Defense rating: Drummond: 111.8 Mystery: 105.4 Assist ratio: Drummond: 19.5 Mystery: 10.1 Rebound percentage: Drummond: 17.3 Mystery: 20.5 eFG%: Drummond: 58.1 Mystery: 68.8 (higher bc he has never shot a 3pfg) TS%: Drummond: 59.6 Mystery: 69.0 *Andre Drummond 19-20 season* 33.1 minutes 53.7% fg 57.7% ft 15.5 rebounds 2.7 assists 1.9 steals 1.6 blocks 17.4 points 21.9 per 25.6 usg 4.1 w.s. 2.1 vorp *Per 36* 16.9 rebounds 3.0 assists 2.1 steals 1.8 blocks 18.9 points *Mystery player 19-20 season* 34.6 minutes 68.8% fg 61.3% ft 14.4 rebounds 1.5 assists 0.6 steals 1.9 blocks 15.6 points 22.1 per 16.7 usg 8.9 w.s. 3.2 vorp *Per 36* 15.0 rebounds 1.6 assists 0.7 steals 2.0 blocks 16.2 points Let's play name that mystery player? Hint: He plays the same position as drummond I hate this. Players are much more than their basic stats. This is really unhelpful |
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Post by Tom Izzo on Feb 25, 2020 3:37:21 GMT
Andre Drummond since he's been on the Cavs (4 games):
12.0 PPG/11.8 RPG/1.8 APG/1.3 BPG/5 turnovers per game
Yes, very small sample size, and yes, this could mean nothing. Once again, my point is that Drummond is not better than Steven Adams and we just said Drummond is an 85.
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Post by Mike Krzyzewski on Feb 27, 2020 23:32:21 GMT
84
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Post by Walt Frazier on Mar 17, 2020 1:16:37 GMT
THREAD CLOSED
New Rating: 85
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