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Post by Ian Noble on Dec 28, 2019 12:46:30 GMT
Current: 78 Proposed: 87 Sorry Brian Scalabrine I know this is bad for your tank but this is crazy, Trae needs to be increased. 28.5ppg 4.3rpg 8.3apg on 44/37/85 The only thing keeping him down is Atlanta's W/L record IRL. |
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Post by Andrei Kirilenko on Dec 28, 2019 14:07:49 GMT
As much as I had to fight for years to get Booker above an 82 with god-like stats on a bad team, we sure do seem to be throwing out insane ratings this season.
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Post by George Gervin on Dec 28, 2019 14:20:41 GMT
85 — yes his offensive stats have been great, but I can’t push him to a similar tier of guys like Bradley Beal, or that far above even a declining guy like Chris Paul, for one massive reason: defense.
This year, he has a -2.8 Defensive BPM (tied for 10th worst in the entire league and only Devontae Graham amongst starting guards is worse) and amongst qualified guards, he’s 124 of 151 based on defensive rating...
I know a counter would be, for example, most young players struggle with defense, but he was a bottom 10 defender last year and now has marginally improved from what was an atrocious rookie year on that end of the floor. Until he shows he can be closer to a net neutral on that end, 85 is the ceiling for me.
P.S. for comparison sakes, someone like Luka, who by no means is a good defender, has a Defensive BPM (2.9) that is much higher despite the offensive load he carries being similar to Trae, so this is really an effort thing for Young
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Post by Jerry West on Dec 28, 2019 14:21:59 GMT
Not sure how much stats matter when you are the best player on the worst team in the NBA trying to replicate a Warriors like offense. Especially when you are one of the worst defenders in the league for the past year and a half.
I'm going to be a little controversial, his 4.7 TO per game aren't really impressive either, can we consider him already an excellent passer when his A/TO ratio of 1.77? Even his shooting, 37% from 3 isn't elite.
82 but I'm sure he is going to reach 90 or above someday.
Edit: Also Lowry and CP3 are 100% better than Trae Young this year and are ranked 85.
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Post by Jared Montini on Dec 28, 2019 14:44:13 GMT
84
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Dec 28, 2019 16:56:36 GMT
I guess I'll give my biased opinion as someone who watches his games almost every night.
Trae is the best passer I've ever seen. His vision, creativity and ability to complete any pass is off the charts. I'm not being hyperbolic at all here. Ever since I was scouting him for the draft, I've been blown away by it. Zach Lowe and other NBA analysts have called him a top 5 passer already.
His shooting is great, though at this point not close to the Steph/Lillard level many people think it is. He takes some crazy tough shots, like Luka, which lowers his percentage but he still needs to improve to get to a firmly elite level.
He's a decent finisher. His floater game is excellent, one of the best in the league IMO. But he is a little small and doesn't always absorb contact well.
He's excellent at drawing fouls, 10.2 FTA per 100. He's also a good FT shooter.
His defense is awful, no getting around it. While I think its partly because of his offensive load, he flat out just needs to try harder on that end.
In regards to the team record, I urge everyone to look at the Hawks roster. Literally every player on the team is G-League quality right now, besides John Collins who's been suspended.
I'll go 86
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Post by Alex English on Dec 28, 2019 17:17:59 GMT
82
Trae Young is the king of empty stats, high volume players. All the criticisms we've had for Wiggins and Booker over the years have to be thrown at Trae too. He's honestly going to be a candidate for worst defensive player in the history of the NBA based on his short career so far. His usage rating is through the roof and he's not that efficient. I'm not going to vote for anything more than low 80s for him until he starts helping his team win games. Someone putting up the crazy boxscore stats that he does should be an All-NBA player on a championship contender, but instead he's on the worst team in the NBA. That's a giant red flag that we have to deal with when considering how good he actually is.
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Dec 28, 2019 17:57:56 GMT
I have no problem with lower ratings, Trae has a lot to work on right now. But I will not stand for an Andrew WIggins comparison. Trae was more valuable his rookie year than Wiggins has been his entire career.  |
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Post by Tom Izzo on Dec 28, 2019 18:24:58 GMT
Trae is pretty impressive but as others have mentioned, on a bad team. I do think he will be one of the best players in the league soon, the guy is an offensive machine. I'll go 84
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Kevin Hollis
Former Thunder GM for 7 years
All Star
Posts: 2,838 
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Post by Kevin Hollis on Dec 28, 2019 18:36:57 GMT
83
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Tim Duncan
Former Jazz GM
Sophomore
Posts: 482
Mar 9, 2022 22:04:51 GMT
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Post by Tim Duncan on Dec 28, 2019 18:58:54 GMT
84
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Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on Dec 29, 2019 4:33:04 GMT
85 — yes his offensive stats have been great, but I can’t push him to a similar tier of guys like Bradley Beal, or that far above even a declining guy like Chris Paul, for one massive reason: defense. This year, he has a -2.8 Defensive BPM (tied for 10th worst in the entire league and only Devontae Graham amongst starting guards is worse) and amongst qualified guards, he’s 124 of 151 based on defensive rating... I know a counter would be, for example, most young players struggle with defense, but he was a bottom 10 defender last year and now has marginally improved from what was an atrocious rookie year on that end of the floor. Until he shows he can be closer to a net neutral on that end, 85 is the ceiling for me. P.S. for comparison sakes, someone like Luka, who by no means is a good defender, has a Defensive BPM (2.9) that is much higher despite the offensive load he carries being similar to Trae, so this is really an effort thing for Young Nope. the counter is the fact that defense is only represented by three attributes of DAware, Steal and Block. Giving him 82 means decreasing the other attributes that he may deserved to be at the right value like dribbling, OAware and etc. |
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Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on Dec 29, 2019 4:34:38 GMT
I have no problem with lower ratings, Trae has a lot to work on right now. But I will not stand for an Andrew WIggins comparison. Trae was more valuable his rookie year than Wiggins has been his entire career. I disagree. Just the mere fact that you can atleast throw Wiggins to the superforwards in the league gives his entire career a shot against the entire career of Trae Young. |
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Post by Mark Price on Dec 31, 2019 3:42:05 GMT
84
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Amare Stoudemire
 Sacramento Kings
Starter
Posts: 2,416
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Post by Amare Stoudemire on Dec 31, 2019 4:26:23 GMT
85
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Post by Walt Frazier on Jan 1, 2020 18:35:37 GMT
I'll go 83.5 right now.
Defense is very bad, and while I agree 1000000000% with Hana that our rating system doesn't have that many places to quantify Defense right now (I will add things like Jump/Strength/Quick/Speed do factor there somewhat, but also on the offensive side), I like to keep our ratings over the years at least somewhat consistent.
Trae needs to show it a bit longer (if he simply keeps this pace, I may vote 85-87 in March, for example) and/or improve his D or do more to carry his team to W's. Collins is back which will help with that.
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