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Post by Ian Noble on Oct 4, 2019 19:24:13 GMT
Paul George Player Option DecisionWhen Paul George signed with the Charlotte Hornets in 2017 it was one of the most controversial decisions in D5 history. Not only did he opt to leave his Portland Trailblazers, but the final decision between Houston or Charlotte was based on a thread lasting 10 pages and was enabled by a further controversial trade with the (clearly corrupt) league commissioner to free up salary space. So now, just over two years later, the Player Option has expired and Paul George is faced with the decision to either Opt-In, teeing himself up for a 2020 Summer re-signing deal with Bird Rights on a Full Veteran Maximum whilst simultaneously betting on himself to not get injured in the next year of play, or Opt-Out and never again return to Charlotte, who would not have the Bird Rights or cap space necessary to make an offer for his services. The loyalty and dedication of GM James Kay is without question, he's done nothing but try and re-sign PG and he even furnished the committee with a pitch worth of a big free agent signing. Championship contention has been on the table every single year Paul has played in Charlotte, it's not a worry, even with his teammate Kevin Durant out for the season. Should PG's real-life trade to the Clippers play any role in his decision? We decided it didn't, since it wasn't his choice, but it wasn't like he hated the move to LA either. Most importantly - this is a player famous for suffering a near career-ending injury earlier in his career! Surely it's safer to sign a 4 year deal with a Boston, Brooklyn or Memphis who would instantly become a championship contender with PG on their team? In the end the committee was not unanimous in it's decision but we can now announce that Paul George has decided to Opt-In to his final year Player Option and will remain with the Charlotte Hornets for at least the 2019/20 Season, teeing himself up for the Veteran's Max Bird Rights contract next season, but also gambling that his health will hold out for the remainder of the year.
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Post by James Kay on Oct 4, 2019 20:37:56 GMT
Great news! Thanks Ian Noble and everyone on the committee. Looking forward to a great season.
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Oct 4, 2019 23:43:15 GMT
Another example of bullshit decision making so a GM doesn't get punished for making a dumbass decision with contract framework.
I'm glad James Kay's feelings were placed above any sense of realism.
There was no reason PG should have been asking for player options in the first place if he wasn't gonna use em.
I reserve the right to offer 1 + 1 contracts to random max level players and have them accepted and then the player option accepted because players in the NBA have a long history of giving any sort of fuck about loyalty outside of the Spurs organization. Oh wait. That's not true lol.
The original contract was dumb, this player option decision is dumb and the justification for it's acceptance is also dumb.
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Oct 4, 2019 23:43:52 GMT
Another example of bullshit decision making so a GM doesn't get punished for making a dumbass decision with contract framework. I'm glad James Kay's feelings were placed above any sense of realism. There was no reason PG should have been asking for player options in the first place if he wasn't gonna use em. I reserve the right to offer 1 + 1 contracts to random max level players and have them accepted and then the player option accepted because players in the NBA have a long history of giving any sort of fuck about loyalty outside of the Spurs organization. Oh wait. That's not true lol. The original contract was dumb, this player option decision is dumb and the justification for it's acceptance is also dumb. The worst part is I fully expected realism to get buttfucked so James Kay doesn't get butthurt.
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Oct 4, 2019 23:45:11 GMT
Anyone who has made a point of not signing stupid contracts that make 0 sense was spit on with this decision.
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Oct 4, 2019 23:50:48 GMT
That is all.
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Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on Oct 5, 2019 3:13:00 GMT
Uhm. Ian Noble, you actually did not tell us the reason why PG decided to opt-in. You gave the overview of the decision and that was it.
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Post by Alex English on Oct 5, 2019 4:25:41 GMT
The whole talk about realism kind of falls flat to me. This situation is strange and not like player option situations you see in the NBA, and it's because of D5's more restricted take on Bird rights.
We have a top 10 player on a championship contender, and if they opt out they have to leave their team. This would never happen in the NBA because outside of some really weird circumstance, there would always be the option to re-sign. All of that really changes things imo. This isn't as simple as most opt-in/opt-out decisions.
Then we can talk about money, because opting out doesn't actually get him the most money, in the short term or in the long term. Opting-in earns PG more money in the 2019-20 season, and earns him more money over the remainder of his career. The only way this isn't true is if PG has a career ending injury this season. You can't call this a bad financial decision, you can only say it's not a safe financial decision. So that's really it, how risk-averse should PG be? Good luck coming up with an objective way to decide that, and then don't forget to take into account the weird team situation already described.
In the end this is going to be a subjective judgement call, and maybe James Kay got lucky with how the people voting interpreted this situation, because I'm sure if you brought in five new GMs to vote you could end up with the opposite outcome, but it is what it is.
All kinds of crazy shit happens in the NBA, and we all roll with it, because life just happens, it doesn't have to pass some realism test first. So to act like this situation, which has a lot of arguments to be made on both sides, is problematic just because the outcome isn't what you personally thought it should be, is all a bit ridiculous to me.
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Oct 5, 2019 6:46:22 GMT
Meh whatever. Let's get this OSFA started.
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Post by James Kay on Oct 5, 2019 20:48:16 GMT
Anyone who has made a point of not signing stupid contracts that make 0 sense was spit on with this decision. Which top 10 players have you declined to sign because the contract didn’t make sense?
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Post by James Kay on Oct 5, 2019 20:52:10 GMT
Another example of bullshit decision making so a GM doesn't get punished for making a dumbass decision with contract framework. Yes the Player Option demanded to sign a top 10 player was definitely my dumbass decision. I should've been smarter and gone the Grizzlies route of signing no one good.
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Oct 6, 2019 20:49:02 GMT
Anyone who has made a point of not signing stupid contracts that make 0 sense was spit on with this decision. Which top 10 players have you declined to sign because the contract didn’t make sense? Literally Paul George.
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Oct 6, 2019 20:50:20 GMT
Which top 10 players have you declined to sign because the contract didn’t make sense? Literally Paul George. And every single other dumbass contract that involved a Player Option (remember all of the stupid multiple year player option contracts) So all of those players as well.
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Oct 6, 2019 20:55:44 GMT
I'm also a bit pissed at the fanfare of it all being posted in the media center. The multi paragraph explanation with zero arguments in it tells me that Ian probably thinks it's a bit dumb himself. I literally would have been happier with "We couldn't come to a consensus so we flipped a coin".
It's doubly concerning because this means Westbrook is probably accepting his player option even though that would be a stupid decision as well. The precedent of allowing teams with tons of talent being allowed to hoard such talent despite mistakes is very annoying and probably disheartening to newer GMs or GMs trying to make a leap.
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Post by James Kay on Oct 6, 2019 21:06:19 GMT
Which top 10 players have you declined to sign because the contract didn’t make sense? Literally Paul George. lmao ok
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Oct 6, 2019 21:21:59 GMT
"Well, for myself I guess I don't mind more input.
Please, keep it quiet for now, of course, Putting some trust into you :-)
Charlotte or Houston
Charlotte is about 2 million short of PG's max, so he leaves some money on the table going there. Not a lot overall, but it's 7 million over 3 years basically.
Charlotte is willing to do a 2 year with 3rd year PO offer.
Houston is not willing to do that. He'd do 3 year plus 4th year PO. We might just do a 3 year with no 4th year if we went to Houston."
Literally Houston made the correct decision. Had he known that the player option wouldn't have mattered he immediately agrees and you might not even get to sign him in the first place.
I took myself out of contention for PG.
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Post by Ian Noble on Oct 6, 2019 21:45:36 GMT
Damn looks like we had a leak in the house during those negotiations! I promise I will not threaten to murder them like Trump is doing. Jeremiah Hill seriously man you need to drop this. But these are the main points I summarised in thread you were asking for earlier: Opt-In Factors- Opt-Out means Charlotte cannot re-sign PG. He would probably go to Boston/Brooklyn/Memphis
- Championship Contention: although Boston/Memphis/Brooklyn would also become contenders with PG.
- Loyalty and Dedication: GM James Kay has shown nothing but loyalty to PG so far. We strive for realism at D5 but it's still a game and this is listed as a major factor in OSFA. James's pitch just here in this thread is enormous.
- Longer-Term Money: if Charlotte can get below the Hard Cap by next off season, PG can finish his career with a five-year bird-rights 10yr max deal. Hard Cap is projected to be at $174m, max contract at $40.6m, meaning Charlotte will have to clear roughly $13m of salary just to be able to re-sign him.
- Age of Team: the Hornets are all roughly PG's age, and he has chosen to sign with a Russell Westbrook team before. This is not true of Boston/Brooklyn/Memphis etc.
Opt-Out Factors- Injury Concerns: PG's already had a career threatening injury, he could guarantee the next 4 years and avoid that risk and still contend on a younger team.
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Oct 7, 2019 4:00:24 GMT
Damn looks like we had a leak in the house during those negotiations! I promise I will not threaten to murder them like Trump is doing. Jeremiah Hill seriously man you need to drop this. But these are the main points I summarised in thread you were asking for earlier: Opt-In Factors- Opt-Out means Charlotte cannot re-sign PG. He would probably go to Boston/Brooklyn/Memphis
- Championship Contention: although Boston/Memphis/Brooklyn would also become contenders with PG.
- Loyalty and Dedication: GM James Kay has shown nothing but loyalty to PG so far. We strive for realism at D5 but it's still a game and this is listed as a major factor in OSFA. James's pitch just here in this thread is enormous.
- Longer-Term Money: if Charlotte can get below the Hard Cap by next off season, PG can finish his career with a five-year bird-rights 10yr max deal. Hard Cap is projected to be at $174m, max contract at $40.6m, meaning Charlotte will have to clear roughly $13m of salary just to be able to re-sign him.
- Age of Team: the Hornets are all roughly PG's age, and he has chosen to sign with a Russell Westbrook team before. This is not true of Boston/Brooklyn/Memphis etc.
Opt-Out Factors- Injury Concerns: PG's already had a career threatening injury, he could guarantee the next 4 years and avoid that risk and still contend on a younger team.
Gonna take these 1 by 1. 1 - Charlotte's ability or inability to resign him should not even be a thing he's worried about. 2 - Whatever 3 - Loyalty for what? He had him for 2 years. It's not like he drafted him then resigned him over his market value to keep him or something. I've had better loyalty to guys I've signed to 3 year deals just because I told them I wouldn't trade em. 4 - *****IF***** I fully expect Charlotte to be as balls to the wall about competing as ever and not doing anything of note regarding their cap. Because it's an unfixable mess. That's what happens to 99% of teams that win a championship. Which *checks notes* James Kay has done. Further, he's now stuck on a dead contract with KD not even playing this year. 5 - Lol what? I literally just wanted to bitch about it. I'm not really that angry I just think it's silly that someone gets rewarded for making a dumb contract decision. It's not that big of a deal since I wasn't even targeting him but I'm sure others were. I also promise that if PG tears his achilles or ACL or something that a close up of his leg will be my new signature art.
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Oct 11, 2019 5:17:03 GMT
Choosing to believe that the combo of amazing bass fishing and ocean fishing is the reason PG resigned. That's the most reasonable thing that makes any sense.
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Post by Ian Noble on Oct 11, 2019 11:08:07 GMT
Choosing to believe that the combo of amazing bass fishing and ocean fishing is the reason PG resigned. That's the most reasonable thing that makes any sense. Can't believe we didn't consider this
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Billy King
Former Jazz and Knicks GM
Rookie
Posts: 247
Oct 30, 2023 14:13:22 GMT
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Post by Billy King on Oct 13, 2019 14:17:52 GMT
grumble
mumble
league drama
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