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Post by Ian Noble on Jun 19, 2019 10:04:58 GMT
Hard Cap - Draft ImplicationsAs per the Hard Cap rules: On the day the Rookie Draft starts, if your team is projected to be over the Hard Cap when salaries progress on the following July 1st (usually less than a week later), you lose all your picks in that Draft. The projected salary cap for next season is currently $109,000,000. This means if your team's salaries are projected to be over $163,500,000 when the NBA Draft starts this Friday night you will lose your draft picks for this Draft! This currently affects:  Charlotte Hornets
James Kay
 Orlando Magic
Blake Bowman
Unless Charlotte get under the projected Hard Cap they currently have no choice but to lose their 29th pick since they are also bound by the Stepien Rule and cannot trade it either. Orlando still has the option to trade their pick, but will lose it in two days time if they don't trade it.
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Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on Jun 19, 2019 10:40:25 GMT
Not that it matters but it will feel weird to have 28 1st round picks instead of 30. What are you going to do James and Blake...
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Post by Jerry West on Jun 19, 2019 11:18:56 GMT
Would Orlando also loose their 2nd?
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Post by James Kay on Jun 19, 2019 13:57:50 GMT
Ian Noble Can I trade my 28th if the same trade gets me under the cap next season? We’ve approved trades recently foregoing the Stepien rule when it’s just assumed that the trade would be done formally after the draft pick was made
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Jun 19, 2019 14:00:12 GMT
Ian Noble Can I trade my 28th if the same trade gets me under the cap next season? We’ve approved trades recently foregoing the Stepien rule when it’s just assumed that the trade would be done formally after the draft pick was made If this is allowed then what's even the point of the hard cap? It becomes meaningless |
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Post by James Kay on Jun 19, 2019 14:12:17 GMT
Ian Noble Can I trade my 28th if the same trade gets me under the cap next season? We’ve approved trades recently foregoing the Stepien rule when it’s just assumed that the trade would be done formally after the draft pick was made If this is allowed then what's even the point of the hard cap? It becomes meaningless Because I wouldn’t be over the cap? How is that meaningless lol. Needing to include 24 million in salary is pretty much a trade killer. |
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Post by Jared Montini on Jun 19, 2019 14:16:23 GMT
If this is allowed then what's even the point of the hard cap? It becomes meaningless Because I wouldn’t be over the cap? How is that meaningless lol. Needing to include 24 million in salary is pretty much a trade killer. you would have to be under the cap to make your selection so I don’t think you’d be able to do that since you’re technically not under the hard cap until after the draft |
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Post by James Kay on Jun 19, 2019 14:20:49 GMT
Because I wouldn’t be over the cap? How is that meaningless lol. Needing to include 24 million in salary is pretty much a trade killer. you would have to be under the cap to make your selection so I don’t think you’d be able to do that since you’re technically not under the hard cap until after the draft I mean in this very post Ian says that I can trade it if I get under the hard cap |
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Post by Andrei Kirilenko on Jun 19, 2019 14:21:57 GMT
I feel like its fine if the Hornets post a trade where they both trade their 2019 1st and also go under the projected hard cap. Then the trade is processed simultaneously the instant the draft starts.
It's no different than posting 2 trades, the first one to get under the hard cap (which could be processed immediately) and the second one to trade his pick (which would be queued until the draft).
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Post by Alex English on Jun 19, 2019 14:25:27 GMT
you would have to be under the cap to make your selection so I don’t think you’d be able to do that since you’re technically not under the hard cap until after the draft I mean in this very post Ian says that I can trade it if I get under the hard cap But it would have to be before. It's a catch 22 and makes no sense if it's the same trade that gets you under the hard cap. The trade couldn't be finalized until after the pick is made, but as soon as the draft starts you lose your pick. Assuming it's impossible for you to get under the hard cap, I think your only option is to trade this year's pick for next year's pick. Then you avoid the stepien rule. |
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Post by Alex English on Jun 19, 2019 14:29:32 GMT
I feel like its fine if the Hornets post a trade where they both trade their 2019 1st and also go under the projected hard cap. Then the trade is processed simultaneously the instant the draft starts. It's no different than posting 2 trades, the first one to get under the hard cap (which could be processed immediately) and the second one to trade his pick (which would be queued until the draft). I guess it's fair if the trade can be split. It depends how picky we should be. With other trades it's just a matter of timing, this one's a little different though since the trade becomes against the rules after waiting for the right time to process it. |
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Post by Alex English on Jun 19, 2019 14:31:42 GMT
Also can't Blake Bowman just renounce the Kyle Singler team option? That's all he needs to do to get under the hard cap, then he won't lose his picks. |
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Amare Stoudemire
 Sacramento Kings
Starter
Posts: 2,416 
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Post by Amare Stoudemire on Jun 19, 2019 14:37:34 GMT
It's relevant bc in the NBA draft holds don't start till July 1st
None of the holds do so that gives you time to make your pick and trade it
With the pick comes the hold
Just like you can renounce your pick after you make it bc you don't have cap space
So even in d5 if a team was over the hard cap they would still make their selection and if they can't get under the hard cap by July 1st said rookie gets renounced and immediately becomes a ufa
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Amare Stoudemire
Sacramento Kings
Starter
Posts: 2,416
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Post by Amare Stoudemire on Jun 19, 2019 14:39:26 GMT
Everyone needs to remember that the draft is the close of a season... Not the beginning
A new season doesn't officially begin till July 1st so neither can cap holds js
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Post by James Kay on Jun 19, 2019 14:39:45 GMT
Also can't Blake Bowman just renounce the Kyle Singler team option? That's all he needs to do to get under the hard cap, then he won't lose his picks. Kyle Singler >>>>> Draft picks |
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Jun 19, 2019 15:02:07 GMT
I mean in this very post Ian says that I can trade it if I get under the hard cap But it would have to be before. It's a catch 22 and makes no sense if it's the same trade that gets you under the hard cap. The trade couldn't be finalized until after the pick is made, but as soon as the draft starts you lose your pick. Assuming it's impossible for you to get under the hard cap, I think your only option is to trade this year's pick for next year's pick. Then you avoid the stepien rule. This is exactly why it's a circumvention of the rules and makes the hard cap penalty competely toothless. When the draft starts, teams over the HC lose their pick. A team that has traded next year's pick cannot trade their pick this season until after they have made their pick. Therefore by the time the team is eligible to trade their pick, they have already forfeited it. The fact that the trade takes you below the hard cap has no relevance. You must be projected to be below the hard cap by the start of the draft, otherwise your pick is forfeited. |
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Post by James Kay on Jun 19, 2019 15:07:28 GMT
But it would have to be before. It's a catch 22 and makes no sense if it's the same trade that gets you under the hard cap. The trade couldn't be finalized until after the pick is made, but as soon as the draft starts you lose your pick. Assuming it's impossible for you to get under the hard cap, I think your only option is to trade this year's pick for next year's pick. Then you avoid the stepien rule. This is exactly why it's a circumvention of the rules and makes the hard cap penalty competely toothless. When the draft starts, teams over the HC lose their pick. A team that has traded next year's pick cannot trade their pick this season until after they have made their pick. Therefore by the time the team is eligible to trade their pick, they have already forfeited it. The fact that the trade takes you below the hard cap has no relevance. You must be projected to be below the hard cap by the start of the draft, otherwise your pick is forfeited. How does it make it toothless? I have an asset, the 28th pick, that because of the hard cap, is saddled with 23 million in salary, and disappears after a certain date. That’s a pretty strong bite. So basically what you’re saying is that the hard cap means that I’m stuck losing my pick once the trade deadline passes? |
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Post by Jerry West on Jun 19, 2019 15:07:34 GMT
This can be really confusing since the NBA uses a so called "soft" cap but we used a hard cap like the NFL if I'm not mistaken.
If we were using the soft cap then the exception could be created for the BR. But since we use the hard cap, and it has become clear that we must decline TO, the question should become if we can hold players Bird Rights if it takes over the cap or do we need to renounce them automatically like Team Options?
If we can hold them I guess Charlotte could draft the player and then trade the Bird Rights, if not, the pick needs to be forfeited. Also shouldn't Orlando not be able to pick up Singler PO and therefore automatically be under the cap and be able to keep their picks?
There also the topic of when Playoff teams are able to trade again, if you can only trade again on draft night then if you don't trade your pick until the deadline you are automatically going to loose it and should have taken that into account earlier.
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Post by Alex English on Jun 19, 2019 15:17:21 GMT
Everyone needs to remember that the draft is the close of a season... Not the beginning A new season doesn't officially begin till July 1st so neither can cap holds js The NBA and D5 are not identical, and this is one of the differences. It's specifically laid out in the rules that teams lose their picks once the draft starts. It makes no sense if the hard cap penalties don't work this way. So in this case how the NBA handles things don't apply. They don't have a hard cap after all, they have a luxury tax. |
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Post by Alex English on Jun 19, 2019 15:22:31 GMT
This can be really confusing since the NBA uses a so called "soft" cap but we used a hard cap like the NFL if I'm not mistaken. If we were using the soft cap then the exception could be created for the BR. But since we use the hard cap, and it has become clear that we must decline TO, the question should become if we can hold players Bird Rights if it takes over the cap or do we need to renounce them automatically like Team Options? If we can hold them I guess Charlotte could draft the player and then trade the Bird Rights, if not, the pick needs to be forfeited. Also shouldn't Orlando not be able to pick up Singler PO and therefore automatically be under the cap and be able to keep their picks? There also the topic of when Playoff teams are able to trade again, if you can only trade again on draft night then if you don't trade your pick until the deadline you are automatically going to loose it and should have taken that into account earlier. I think you're missing part of the story. We do have a soft cap, but then this secondary hard cap above it. It replaces how the NBA uses the luxury tax. We don't actually pay any money here so who cares if my cap is $300 million. Teams were just continuously trading for bad contracts to improve their team since it didn't matter. The hard cap is to prevent that behaviour. |
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Jun 19, 2019 15:23:29 GMT
So basically what you’re saying is that the hard cap means that I’m stuck losing my pick once the trade deadline passes? [/quote] You definitely could trade your draft pick before the draft starts. But if a team is stepien restricted, like you are this year, then you can't trade your pick until after its made. Which is after the pick would be forfeited. I don't see how it makes any sense to let a team trade a forfeited pick. |
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Kevin Hollis
Former Thunder GM for 7 years
All Star
Posts: 2,838
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Post by Kevin Hollis on Jun 19, 2019 18:07:04 GMT
Everyone needs to remember that the draft is the close of a season... Not the beginning A new season doesn't officially begin till July 1st so neither can cap holds js The NBA and D5 are not identical, and this is one of the differences. It's specifically laid out in the rules that teams lose their picks once the draft starts. It makes no sense if the hard cap penalties don't work this way. So in this case how the NBA handles things don't apply. They don't have a hard cap after all, they have a luxury tax. There you go, make people pay tangible money or they get kicked from the league if over. That will put an end to this madness |
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Jun 19, 2019 19:35:53 GMT
Ummm. If he's forced to trade his pick isn't that the same as losing the pick?
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Kevin Hollis
Former Thunder GM for 7 years
All Star
Posts: 2,838
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Post by Kevin Hollis on Jun 19, 2019 21:39:26 GMT
Not really since he can use it to benefit his team. I see what you mean though.
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Post by Kareem Abdul-Jabbar on Jun 20, 2019 7:28:46 GMT
James will be fine. Paul George will Opt-Out right? ^^
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Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on Jun 21, 2019 1:24:37 GMT
So, ORL and CHA just loss their picks?
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Jun 21, 2019 4:10:18 GMT
IMO lost picks should go to teams if they want them.
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Boston Celtics
On the day the Rookie Draft starts, if your team is projected to be over the Hard Cap when salaries progress on the following July 1st (usually less than a week later), you lose all your picks in that Draft.
Cleveland Cavaliers
Portland Trailblazers
Charlotte Hornets
New Orleans Pelicans
Utah Jazz
Brooklyn Nets
Denver Nuggets
Washington Wizards
