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Post by George Gervin on Mar 22, 2019 17:33:31 GMT
Since we already have had one thread downvoting a banana boat buddy earlier this year (Melo), and another one going on right now (CP3), it only seems fitting to talk about the last one of the club...LeBron James.
I will preface he’s missed more games this year than ever before in his career, but if you look at advanced— and not counting— stats, he isn’t the same player.
Last Year with Cavs:
2017-18 VORP: 8.9
2018-18 BOM: 9.6, with 7.6 Offensive and 2.0 Defensive
Win Shares: 14.0
Win Shares per 48: .221
This Year with Lakers:
2018-19 VORP: 4.5
2018-19 BPM: 8.0, 6.2 Offensive and 1.7 Defensive
Win Shares: 6.9
Win Shares per 48: .184
If you go by traditional counting stats, the only real drop is his apg (9.1 to 8.0) with his rpg and ppg the same from last season. His blocks and steals are down, but that’s consistent with his defensive decline over the last couple of seasons. His 3 P% is down (37% to 33%) and his FT% is down to 64% as well.
In short, there is a lot of hair splitting with LeBron— overall he is still a very impactful player, but I don’t think he’s “best in the world” type anymore, and I don’t think he should be the highest rated D5 player either.
I’m not sure what the best rating is, but I think there’s a discussion at minimum to downgrade him to 97
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Kevin Hollis
Former Thunder GM for 7 years
All Star
Posts: 2,838 
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Post by Kevin Hollis on Mar 22, 2019 18:08:55 GMT
Trying to decide between an 97 or 96. He still posts crazy numbers, but his defense is so pathetic now. I think his decrease should be reflected strictly on defensive categories.
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Post by Jared Montini on Mar 22, 2019 18:21:56 GMT
96
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Post by Jerry West on Mar 22, 2019 19:07:27 GMT
If someone votes under what they voted for AD I demand they are expelled Ian Noble |
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Mar 22, 2019 19:53:53 GMT
If someone votes under what they voted for AD I demand they are expelled Ian NobleI had the first lowering thread of LBJ ever. I can do what I want. He was injured for the first time. He's still really good. I think 80% of the blame is on the Lakers organization for putting together the most ill fitted roster in the modern NBA. That said the beginning of the season wasn't a cake walk either. His 3 point shooting kinda sucks this season and his FT shooting fell off a damned cliff. His defensive issues are well documented but tbh he's been playing off ball low effort D outside of the playoffs since he returned to Cleveland. I think his efficiency issues limit him to 96 max in my opinion. |
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Post by Jerry West on Mar 22, 2019 20:17:32 GMT
96, but I voted 94 for AD
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Kevin Hollis
Former Thunder GM for 7 years
All Star
Posts: 2,838
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Post by Kevin Hollis on Mar 22, 2019 20:23:26 GMT
At this point in his career, I think he is maybe the 5th best player in the league? I would definitely put Durant and Harden in front of him. We can then debate about Leonard and Giannis. With that, I will vote 96.5
I never voted for AD.
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Amare Stoudemire
 Sacramento Kings
Starter
Posts: 2,416
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Post by Amare Stoudemire on Mar 22, 2019 21:04:39 GMT
95
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Post by Ian Noble on Mar 22, 2019 22:25:03 GMT
97 Give it time before you vultures start circling the SGOAT (Second Greatest of All Time)  |
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Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on Mar 22, 2019 22:33:36 GMT
96
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Post by George Gervin on Mar 22, 2019 23:08:40 GMT
97 Give it time before you vultures start circling the SGOAT (Second Greatest of All Time) WE WILL NOT BE DENIED  |
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Post by Jerry West on Mar 22, 2019 23:12:16 GMT
Also, quick note, 2 of the main points here are VORP and Win Shares, and that's influenced by how much a player plays and LeBron has been injured.
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Post by George Gervin on Mar 22, 2019 23:19:16 GMT
Also, quick note, 2 of the main points here are VORP and Win Shares, and that's influenced by how much a player plays and LeBron has been injured. Fair point, but if you were to project out the figures over the last games of the season and assuming he had played same amount as last year, his VORP and WS still project short of years prior due to his drop in multiple areas in efficiency, such as shooting %, etc |
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Post by Jerry West on Mar 22, 2019 23:43:19 GMT
The best star available to the public to judge a player on is BPM. And LeBron still tanks at 5th season, although it's not a perfect stat
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Amare Stoudemire
Sacramento Kings
Starter
Posts: 2,416
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Post by Amare Stoudemire on Mar 22, 2019 23:47:52 GMT
The thing to remember here is that lebron is still great, even in his decline! But he is no longer feared bc his game has declined! And this is the reason the rl lakers will not sign any big free agents this off season imo
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Mar 23, 2019 1:58:45 GMT
98. The Lakers are trash. LeBron is the only reason they won any games at all
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Tim Duncan
Former Jazz GM
Sophomore
Posts: 482
Mar 9, 2022 22:04:51 GMT
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Post by Tim Duncan on Mar 23, 2019 4:40:33 GMT
97.5
Give Lebron some time before lowering him a lot.With him getting injured and his teammates getting injured for so long,I dont think he should be lowered that much
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Post by Walt Frazier on Mar 23, 2019 17:06:09 GMT
97 fo me
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Amare Stoudemire
Sacramento Kings
Starter
Posts: 2,416
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Post by Amare Stoudemire on Mar 23, 2019 19:47:31 GMT
98. The Lakers are trash. LeBron is the only reason they won any games at all They have less wins now then they did last year! And they have lebron (thats not that good) |
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Post by Jerry West on Mar 23, 2019 20:39:59 GMT
98. The Lakers are trash. LeBron is the only reason they won any games at all They have less wins now then they did last year! And they have lebron (thats not that good) They were 4th before he got injured. I saw somewhere that since he came back Lakers +/- with LeBron on the floor was +1 and -150 when he was off |
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Amare Stoudemire
Sacramento Kings
Starter
Posts: 2,416
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Post by Amare Stoudemire on Mar 23, 2019 23:08:49 GMT
Thats cuz they all played like shit when he tried to trade them all! Hes toxic when he doesnt get his way and his teammates are always affected! Then he comes back from injury and their suppose to rally around him? Well they didnt and lebron even though hes putting up stats is showing his decline and toxic nature while he dribbles balls out of bounds and gets screamed at by kuzma to play some D. The decline is real and its only gonna get worse folks!!
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Mar 24, 2019 3:20:17 GMT
98. The Lakers are trash. LeBron is the only reason they won any games at all They have less wins now then they did last year! And they have lebron (thats not that good) There isn't a single above average player on that team outside of Bron. Not one |
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Kevin Hollis
Former Thunder GM for 7 years
All Star
Posts: 2,838
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Post by Kevin Hollis on Mar 24, 2019 3:39:10 GMT
Kuzma and Ingram are definitely above average. The cavs had love
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Post by Mark Price on Mar 24, 2019 12:44:33 GMT
97. He was playing at an MVP level before his injury in December despite being on the worst fitting team he's ever played for. If he struggles at the start of next year after a full off season to recover then he should be down voted more.
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Post by Tom Izzo on Mar 24, 2019 13:28:45 GMT
97
I think he's in the conversation for best player in the league, but it's no longer a no brainer. Who would you rather take in a league wide redraft? Even discounting age, I think there are arguments for Harden, Durant, Steph, Leonard. I think he's in Tier 1, but no longer the clear #1
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Post by Andrei Kirilenko on Mar 26, 2019 7:57:19 GMT
98, sit down young bloods
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Post by Andrei Kirilenko on Apr 10, 2019 7:08:35 GMT
Thread closed after 14 votes. New rating = 97
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