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Post by Alex English on Dec 8, 2018 17:41:08 GMT
Current Rating: 81 Suggested Rating: 87 Tobias has a pretty clear case for a rating increase, but I wasn't really expecting to be going as high as an 87 for him until I started comparing with other wings in the mid 80s. His numbers are pretty damn impressive and he's leading the Clippers in their battle for first place in the West.  I've included a bunch of guys there for comparison for this season, as well as the season that earned Gordon Hayward an 87, and last season's stats that earned Victor Oladipo an 88. Tobias clearly deserves to be in this group. His efficiency is probably the most impressive thing too. His 51/42/85 shooting splits are off the charts and they're not even unsustainable since he shot at a rate of 47/41/80 last season for the Clippers too. He's just quietly become a crazy efficient scorer in this league. |
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Post by Ian Noble on Dec 8, 2018 17:50:51 GMT
NEPHEW
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Post by James Kay on Dec 8, 2018 17:53:45 GMT
Was waiting for you to post this. Where's the Siakam post?! lol
Not gonna vote quite yet, I've been a fan of Tobias but haven't really watched much of him either this year or the past season with the Clippers.
They've been a solidly top 10 team this season (top 5 offense, bottom 10 defense), flirting with the number one seed in the West from time to time. Him and Gallo are leading the Clippers in scoring, pretty much with the same impact (Tobias with slightly higher ppg and FG%, but Gallo lighting it up from deep for the higher TS%).
My question is: how is his defense - and how is his play-making? Strictly off stats, it looks like his play-making and defense are still rather mediocre. Not really to the detriment of his team, but nearly all of those players you listed are better play-makers and/or defenders than Tobias.
Given that his talent (seems to me) (unless you want to rebut this) is concentrated mainly in his scoring efficiency, I don't know if I can justify the ratings points for an 87. Right now I'd hover around 84 minimum-86 maximum.
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Kevin Hollis
Former Thunder GM for 7 years
All Star
Posts: 2,838 
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Post by Kevin Hollis on Dec 8, 2018 18:00:38 GMT
85 - still lacks defense to some degree. I think that is really the only thing holding him back.
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Post by Alex English on Dec 8, 2018 18:43:00 GMT
My question is: how is his defense - and how is his play-making? Strictly off stats, it looks like his play-making and defense are still rather mediocre. Not really to the detriment of his team, but nearly all of those players you listed are better play-makers and/or defenders than Tobias. His playmaking is worse on average (though more assists than Klay), but he's also the best rebounder of the group by a decent margin too, so I don't see how that's a net negative on his rating. Here are some defensive impact stats: Defensive RPM: Gordon Hayward: +1.16 Victor Oladipo: +1.01 Jimmy Butler: +0.67 Tobias Harris: +0.44Khris Middleton: +0.09 DeMar DeRozan: -0.87 Devin Booker: -1.58 Klay Thompson: -2.31 Defensive PIPM: Victor Oladipo: +1.18 Gordon Hayward: +0.83 Tobias Harris: +0.66Khris Middleton: +0.13 Jimmy Butler: -0.64 DeMar DeRozan: -0.77 Klay Thompson: -1.14 Devin Booker: -1.65 Defensive BPM: Gordon Hayward: +2.0 Victor Oladipo: +1.2 Jimmy Butler: +0.9 Khris Middleton: +0.2 Tobias Harris: -0.3DeMar DeRozan: -1.1 Klay Thompson: -2.8 Devin Booker: -3.0 So he's not at all a liability on defense, but also not at the level of Hayward or Oladipo (or Butler even if this season's stats don't show it). He holds his own, and that's totally fine imo. We've long known that DeRozan and Booker are terrible defenders, but it hasn't had a huge impact on their ratings. It's again pretty clear that he belongs in this group of players. |
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Dec 8, 2018 22:32:40 GMT
I like him. 86.
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Post by Jerry West on Dec 8, 2018 22:40:46 GMT
85
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Dec 8, 2018 22:48:37 GMT
86.5
Updated vote from 85 to 86.5 after doing more research
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Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on Dec 9, 2018 0:23:29 GMT
86
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Post by Jared Montini on Dec 9, 2018 1:34:14 GMT
85, I regret trading him in both leagues
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Post by George Gervin on Dec 9, 2018 2:12:34 GMT
85 as well— concur his offensive numbers are right there with the rest of those guys, but to the points mentioned on playmaking and defense those hold me back from going to the full 87 put out there
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Post by Andrei Kirilenko on Dec 9, 2018 16:58:03 GMT
I’m stuck between 84 and 85, so I will vote 84.5
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Post by Alex English on Dec 9, 2018 17:21:03 GMT
I'm already reminded why the stockwatch section sucks haha. One person makes an argument while most other people skim it or ignore it completely then vote based on gut instinct anyway. Whatever, it looks like he'll still get a respectable rating, can't complain too much. That's just how this game is played I guess lol.
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Post by Mike Krzyzewski on Dec 11, 2018 13:45:51 GMT
Same for me...84.5 for me as well.
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Post by Kareem Abdul-Jabbar on Dec 13, 2018 0:19:25 GMT
85 ^^
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Post by Chauncey Billups on Dec 13, 2018 21:42:00 GMT
Tobias Harris is balling out
86
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Post by Bryan Colangelo on Dec 14, 2018 3:27:55 GMT
87
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Post by Walt Frazier on Dec 15, 2018 23:13:01 GMT
I'll go 86 as of now. I could see going higher for a 2nd SW later in the season, after the All-Star break.
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Post by Andrei Kirilenko on Dec 18, 2018 7:25:01 GMT
Thread closed after 15 votes. New rating = 86
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