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Post by Chauncey Billups on Feb 11, 2018 18:30:00 GMT
It's up to Chauncey Billups whether we even continue then - and he shouldn't feel bad for saying he wants to continue! It's always been the case that: Dynasty Five's Trading Regulations.Keep all trade offers and negotiations limited to Private Messages (PMs) between teams. - GMs cannot change their mind about a trade once they've posted the trade thread or replied with an acceptance.
Chauncey Billups it's up to you. Do we continue? Yes, we continue. Rejecting this trade is just further setting up my team for failure, essentially not allowing me to get rid of certain players without including picks on my end which are the only valuable assets I have. This trade is exactly what my team needs and doesn't destroy Indiana's in any way. You all are overreacting. Jeff Green is garbage. Sim value should count for something, and Mozgov has a lot of that.
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Post by James Kay on Feb 11, 2018 19:17:49 GMT
To the TC members who haven't rejected this trade yet, and to Ian, who accepted this trade: What are you thinking! The trade that brought Mozgov to Detroit involved: -Ditching 13 million in salary for the next year, making it an even swap in terms of the first two years salary -Two early 2nd round picks to Detroit Mozgov's value has only decreased since then. He's still owed 31 million over the next two seasons and he can't even find minutes on the Brooklyn Nets. The IRL Lakers had to give up D'Angelo Russell to ship out Mozgov's contract (which is almost identical to his D5 contract). This trade has IND taking on 18 million in dead salary for next season, and 16 for the next, and the only asset he gets out of it is a swap of his 2nd round pick for a G-League player that was drafted 3 seasons ago and hasn't been able to see actual NBA court time. The value exchange in this trade is plainly lopsided. If this goes through, the Pacers will be paying $70 million to Parsons, Gallinari, and Mozgov in 2019-2020. These players have started for a combined 37 games this year. Ian Noble the TC is supposed to step in to stop GMs from 'destroying' their teams. Teams don't typically get destroyed in one trade, which is why the TC is supposed to intervene with grossly lopsided trades like this - only making exceptions when the team can truly thrive despite the bad trade. This is not the case here. Ian Noble , if Detroit wants to get creative to move these contracts, all power to him - he has 6 first rounders and 8 2nd rounders in his name, and he can try to get value from GMs who want to take flyers on Hunter, Grant, Burks, Robinson or Layman. He can rebuild his team - just not at the expense of the Pacers.
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Larry Bird
Indiana Pacers
Starter
Posts: 1,672
Mar 5, 2024 13:29:26 GMT
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Post by Larry Bird on Feb 11, 2018 19:49:51 GMT
Doesn't make sense for Larry at all Some people would beg to differ.
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Post by Alex English on Feb 11, 2018 21:33:38 GMT
I'll put in my reject now.
This is all negative for Indiana with no silver lining. Mozgov would be the fourth bloated contract for the Pacers too. With Gallinari, Parsons and Harkless already on the books, adding Mozgov would handcuff them even more. Considering there isn't too much reason to be optimistic with this team anyway, I think that's enough for me to go against this trade. It would be a nice move for Detroit, but it's too toxic for Indiana imo.
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Feb 12, 2018 1:21:05 GMT
They have all their draft picks at least. Lol for how long?
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Post by Walt Frazier on Feb 12, 2018 1:54:20 GMT
Facts (more or less):
RJ Hunter - Neutral value, at best. His salary isn't big, but he is a non-producing (not even active, really) NBA player / G-Leaguer, who will eat up a portion of cap that could be used on at least an active NBA player.
Cliff Alexander - Basically the same, but at least he is only on the books this year (is this actually him or just his money? Why doesn't he have a rating listed?)
Jeff Green - the only currently active, useful player. He's overpaid but at least he's only on a one-year contract.
Timofey Mozgov - Doesn't play, really. Eats up 14-16% of the cap for this year and the 2 after that. Bad contract, non-producing player, bad value.
2nd Round pick in 2021 - Can't get much less value in a draft pick, being this far away, and yet it's probably the single most valuable piece, long-term, in this trade.
---------------
So, while nothing in this trade is really very valuable, we do have one piece which has extreme negative value = Mozgov. One team gets rid of that piece, and they also GET the only long-term valuable piece in the trade, PLUS they also get the only currently-productive player in the trade. Even if we didn't add in the value of Mozgov just established not very long ago when he was shipped to Detroit, and the fact that Mozgov has only gotten less valuable since that trade, this would still be a reject for me.
Reject.
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Post by Chauncey Billups on Feb 12, 2018 2:41:24 GMT
Facts (more or less): RJ Hunter - Neutral value, at best. His salary isn't big, but he is a non-producing (not even active, really) NBA player / G-Leaguer, who will eat up a portion of cap that could be used on at least an active NBA player. Cliff Alexander - Basically the same, but at least he is only on the books this year (is this actually him or just his money? Why doesn't he have a rating listed?) Jeff Green - the only currently active, useful player. He's overpaid but at least he's only on a one-year contract. Timofey Mozgov - Doesn't play, really. Eats up 14-16% of the cap for this year and the 2 after that. Bad contract, non-producing player, bad value. 2nd Round pick in 2021 - Can't get much less value in a draft pick, being this far away, and yet it's probably the single most valuable piece, long-term, in this trade. --------------- So, while nothing in this trade is really very valuable, we do have one piece which has extreme negative value = Mozgov. One team gets rid of that piece, and they also GET the only long-term valuable piece in the trade, PLUS they also get the only currently-productive player in the trade. Even if we didn't add in the value of Mozgov just established not very long ago when he was shipped to Detroit, and the fact that Mozgov has only gotten less valuable since that trade, this would still be a reject for me. Reject. The fact that you went on to name the 2021 2nd round pick the single most valuable piece goes to show how ridiculous yours and everybody's rejects really are. On top of that, Larry Bird has been apart of the league 10+ years yet you still feel the need to reject trades just because you all don't necessarily agree with the things that he values. Then you go on to list a bunch of bullshit claiming them be facts, such as Jeff Green being the only useful player, Timofey Mozgov having no value, and then claiming the 2nd rounder to be the most valuable piece. Sounds like a bunch of opinionated nonsense to me.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Feb 12, 2018 2:48:55 GMT
Facts (more or less): RJ Hunter - Neutral value, at best. His salary isn't big, but he is a non-producing (not even active, really) NBA player / G-Leaguer, who will eat up a portion of cap that could be used on at least an active NBA player. Cliff Alexander - Basically the same, but at least he is only on the books this year (is this actually him or just his money? Why doesn't he have a rating listed?) Jeff Green - the only currently active, useful player. He's overpaid but at least he's only on a one-year contract. Timofey Mozgov - Doesn't play, really. Eats up 14-16% of the cap for this year and the 2 after that. Bad contract, non-producing player, bad value. 2nd Round pick in 2021 - Can't get much less value in a draft pick, being this far away, and yet it's probably the single most valuable piece, long-term, in this trade. --------------- So, while nothing in this trade is really very valuable, we do have one piece which has extreme negative value = Mozgov. One team gets rid of that piece, and they also GET the only long-term valuable piece in the trade, PLUS they also get the only currently-productive player in the trade. Even if we didn't add in the value of Mozgov just established not very long ago when he was shipped to Detroit, and the fact that Mozgov has only gotten less valuable since that trade, this would still be a reject for me. Reject. The fact that you went on to name the 2021 2nd round pick the single most valuable piece goes to show how ridiculous yours and everybody's rejects really are. On top of that, Larry Bird has been apart of the league 10+ years yet you still feel the need to reject trades just because you all don't necessarily agree with the things that he values. Then you go on to list a bunch of bullshit claiming them be facts, such as Jeff Green being the only useful player, Timofey Mozgov having no value, and then claiming the 2nd rounder to be the most valuable piece. Sounds like a bunch of opinionated nonsense to me. Don't blame you fighting for your trade, but here are 3 actual, indisputable facts. 1) There are only 3 pieces with any long-term value (positive or negative): RJ Hunter (2 year contract), Timofey Mozgov (3-year contract), and a future 2nd round pick. 2) 2 of those pieces cost money and don't produce in real life. Especially Mozgov who costs quite a lot of money to produce, in 12 whole minutes per game, on one of the worst teams in the league, 4 points and 3 rebounds a game. His value IRL is so low, nay, negative, he had to be paired with a rookie-contract, recent top 3 draft pick to get the other team to take him off the first team's hand. 3) The pick is the only piece with any real upside, and it's a damn low upside that's 4 years away. Unless you're selling me RJ Hunter, which, come on man.
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Post by Chauncey Billups on Feb 12, 2018 2:51:42 GMT
The fact that you went on to name the 2021 2nd round pick the single most valuable piece goes to show how ridiculous yours and everybody's rejects really are. On top of that, Larry Bird has been apart of the league 10+ years yet you still feel the need to reject trades just because you all don't necessarily agree with the things that he values. Then you go on to list a bunch of bullshit claiming them be facts, such as Jeff Green being the only useful player, Timofey Mozgov having no value, and then claiming the 2nd rounder to be the most valuable piece. Sounds like a bunch of opinionated nonsense to me. Don't blame you fighting for your trade, but here are 3 actual, indisputable facts. 1) There are only 3 pieces with any long-term value (positive or negative): RJ Hunter (2 year contract), Timofey Mozgov (3-year contract), and a future 2nd round pick. 2) 2 of those pieces cost money and don't produce in real life. Especially Mozgov who costs quite a lot of money to produce, in 12 whole minutes per game, on one of the worst teams in the league, 4 points and 3 rebounds a game. His value IRL is so low, nay, negative, he had to be paired with a rookie-contract, recent top 3 draft pick to get the other team to take him off the first team's hand. 3) The pick is the only piece with any real upside, and it's a damn low upside that's 4 years away. Unless you're selling me RJ Hunter, which, come on man. Timofey Mozgov has a lot of sim value, period. Mozgov's contract will also be extremely valuable in 3 years as well. Just because it isn't valuable RIGHT NOW, doesn't mean it won't be. Mozgov could have put up good numbers for Indy for this season or next, and when the time came, his contract would have had positive value.
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Post by James Kay on Feb 12, 2018 2:56:01 GMT
Mozgov's contract will also be extremely valuable in 3 years as well. Just because it isn't valuable RIGHT NOW, doesn't mean it won't be. Kinda like.... Jeff Green's contract?
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Post by Walt Frazier on Feb 12, 2018 3:01:22 GMT
Mozgov's contract will also be extremely valuable in 3 years as well. Just because it isn't valuable RIGHT NOW, doesn't mean it won't be. Kinda like.... Jeff Green's contract? Right, so on contracts alone, Mozgov's theoretical value that will kick in in 3 years is canceled out by Jeff Green's value now. Though, always, value now is better than value later. Plus, Green actually can play a bit, Mozgov can't / doesn't fit in the NBA anymore, basically.
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Post by Chauncey Billups on Feb 12, 2018 3:02:22 GMT
Mozgov's contract will also be extremely valuable in 3 years as well. Just because it isn't valuable RIGHT NOW, doesn't mean it won't be. Kinda like.... Jeff Green's contract? I worry that your brain works the way Noel's face looks
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Post by James Kay on Feb 12, 2018 3:04:18 GMT
Kinda like.... Jeff Green's contract? I worry that your brain works the way Noel's face looks I worry that you don’t understand the inconsistencies in your post
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Post by Chauncey Billups on Feb 12, 2018 3:36:49 GMT
Question for the TC;
Why did you let this team get this terrible but turn around and reject a trade that pales in comparison to many of the moves that previous Piston's GMs made? Be consistent with your bullshit.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Apr 26, 2024 5:33:25 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2018 4:25:51 GMT
Stay off the grass, son.
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Post by Jay Z on Feb 12, 2018 5:02:43 GMT
Question for the TC; Why did you let this team get this terrible but turn around and reject a trade that pales in comparison to many of the moves that previous Piston's GMs made? Be consistent with your bullshit. Bismack BiyomboTimofey MozgovJoakim NoahAlec Burks
These are the four trades that account for like 90% of your committed salaries for the next few years. Two of the trades (Mozgov and Noah) have salary going back out, but you came out with assets in exchange for taking on the lengthier contracts. The Oladipo/Burks trade looks good without hindsight and you thought Orlando got a raw deal in that trade ("Man.. Orlando gets taken in this one." -Chauncey). I personally think the Biyombo one was the most egregious without hindsight, 2 1sts a season away and cap relief for a single 1st two seasons away, but it definitely fit the direction the team was already taking as it was the last trade Vlade made (of the four). Don't think the TC's made a mistake, team had direction and TC let Vlade build the team with that in mind. You acquired a tanking team that had already leveraged all of its cap space to speed up the process. If you want to leverage those assets to undo your cap woes then by all means go for it, but that doesn't change the fact that Larry is making a weird move here and the TC is stepping in to stop it.
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Post by Ian Noble on Feb 12, 2018 10:01:35 GMT
Chauncey Billups - remember this trade in the years to come. Even though it's been rejected you can still be proud of what you achieved here - it was so good it was rejected. Larry Bird - I've said it many times over the years but I'll say it again - you need to make a plan and stick to it, and here we have a trade that you actually tried to reject after submission. 11 years tenure gets you a lot of lee-way and luxury as a GM here, but your team's gone nowhere for at least 7 of those years now. 7 years. C'mon man.
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Post by Ian Noble on Feb 12, 2018 10:02:32 GMT
Trade rejected.
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Post by Ghazny Dimalen on Feb 12, 2018 11:31:23 GMT
Wow detroit have victor oladipo in previous years. this is a challenge to handle a detroit pistons team.
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