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Post by Charles Barkley on Jan 24, 2018 19:04:57 GMT
I don't understand why we do not have bird rights on players come off of a second round contract. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
Yes, it adds some incentive to taking a player in the first round versus the second round but it does not really do much beyond that. Most of the time, young players value playing time above everything else. So, if a player on a second round deal were deciding between offers from teams where a starting spot/high bench spot is being offered versus his re-signing team who is offering him more money-ish, it makes no difference whether or not the team holds those rights.
It would make sense if a bird right re-signing was automatic in the way Restricted Free Agency is, but bird rights gives the player the option to leave for a better situation.
I feel like we should add this to the bird right provisions because it is logical. A team that is over the cap needs to be able to sign its players, especially when you consider that these teams over the cap often trade their first round picks and have only second rounders. Those second rounders should have the opportunity to resign with their team, so long as that team can offer them the playing time.
I just feel like not having this measure in the league will hurt teams. Having this in the league won't make an over the cap team an automatic lock to keep its players but it gives them a shot should they develop.
/discuss
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Jan 24, 2018 19:14:51 GMT
I don't think this is a good idea. We've already restricted free agency an lot with RFA for 1st rounders and while I think that was a good move overall, extending this to 2nd rounders would only further dilute the free agent pool.
A critical part of rebuilding is being able to sign free agents and getting talent without giving up assets. D5 has always been very top heavy but Ian has made some really good changes the past couple years to slow that down. I think making 2nd rounders RFAs would hurt league parity.
Also I own a billion 2nd rounders so having RFA for 2nd rounders would help me a ton. I just think it's bad for the league overall
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Jan 24, 2018 19:15:47 GMT
I don't think this is a good idea. We've already restricted free agency an lot with RFA for 1st rounders and while I think that was a good move overall, extending this to 2nd rounders would only further dilute the free agent pool. A critical part of rebuilding is being able to sign free agents and getting talent without giving up assets. D5 has always been very top heavy but Ian has made some really good changes the past couple years to slow that down. I think making 2nd rounders RFAs would hurt league parity. Also I own a billion 2nd rounders so having RFA for 2nd rounders would help me a ton. I just think it's bad for the league overall I'm super tired and meant bird rights everytime I wrote restricted free agency
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Post by Ian Noble on Jan 24, 2018 20:04:55 GMT
Chuck - are you asking for 2nd Rounder's Bird Rights to be tradeable until their rookie contract expires? Like we have for 1st Rounders?
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Post by Jared Montini on Jan 24, 2018 20:56:13 GMT
Wait? I don't got BRs on Kuzma ?
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Post by Ian Noble on Jan 24, 2018 20:57:49 GMT
Wait? I don't got BRs on Kuzma ? You signed him to a three-year deal, so yes you have BRs. Charles Barkley is saying that even if you traded Kuzma to a different team when he had only one year left on his contract, that new team would keep the Bird Rights. This is currently true of 1st Rounders (e.g. if Chuck traded Giannis right now, the team who got Giannis would have BRs even though he's only got one year contract left), but not true of 2nds.
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Post by Jared Montini on Jan 24, 2018 20:59:25 GMT
Wait? I don't got BRs on Kuzma ? You signed him to a three-year deal, so yes you have BRs. oh okay thanks
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Post by Charles Barkley on Jan 25, 2018 1:31:10 GMT
Chuck - are you asking for 2nd Rounder's Bird Rights to be tradeable until their rookie contract expires? Like we have for 1st Rounders? Yes. This way, a team that is over the cap and acquires a player on a 2nd round deal can sign that player long term if that is what the player wants. It doesn't really provide value to anything beyond that, being that a team under the cap, or one that would be under the cap, would still be able to sign them even if they didn't have bird rights. My point is that there will come a time in the near future where an over the cap team will not be able to sign a player on a second round deal, and it will be shitty for that team. There's no real downside to adding it in, considering young players go where the playing time is and having BRs on a player doesn't make their re-signing automatic, especially when it comes to young guys. My point to this is that I don't see a reason not to have this but I can see a future where it screws a team over. Moreover, a guy on a second round deal, like Brogdon, has no value to a team over the cap (or projected to be over the cap). When in reality, Brogdon is probably the one guy on a second round deal who should universally have value to all teams. If Iverson were to look to trade him, a number of teams would not be willing to give the fair value because there would be no shot to resign him because they are over the cap. But having the BRs for the players on 2nd round deals as tradeable, doesn't hurt anything, at least the way I am thinking about it.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Jan 25, 2018 1:59:14 GMT
I'm totally open to listening to both sides on this, but so far what Charles is saying makes sense to me and I'm in favor of it.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Apr 26, 2024 23:37:47 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2018 2:22:36 GMT
im in favor of this because it seemed arbitrary to me to make it just for 1st rounders, especially since all 2nd rounders now have 3 year deals
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Jan 25, 2018 2:45:19 GMT
I agree with tradeable BRs for 2nd rounders.
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Kevin Hollis
Former Thunder GM for 7 years
All Star
Posts: 2,838
Dec 16, 2022 11:27:40 GMT
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Post by Kevin Hollis on Jan 25, 2018 3:28:13 GMT
Dilly Dilly
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Post by Ian Noble on Jan 25, 2018 9:48:53 GMT
im in favor of this because it seemed arbitrary to me to make it just for 1st rounders, especially since all 2nd rounders now have 3 year deals This is probably the most convincing point really. It is a bit arbitrary to do it for 1st Rounders and not 2nds. I'm good with this I guess. I don't see anyone who is against it but I will give it a few days before making a change, just in case someone has a really good reason why not.
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Post by Jared Montini on Jan 25, 2018 15:39:34 GMT
I'm down with it.
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Chris Mullin
Golden State Warriors
Starter
Posts: 1,303
Feb 19, 2024 21:58:28 GMT
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Post by Chris Mullin on Jan 28, 2018 0:22:49 GMT
I support this idea!
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Jan 28, 2018 13:24:44 GMT
Will this start to apply to this year's 2nd round draft picks?
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Jan 28, 2018 13:25:13 GMT
Will this start to apply to this year's 2nd round draft picks? As in those drafted in the 2nd round of the upcoming 2018 draft
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Post by Ian Noble on Jan 28, 2018 14:04:33 GMT
Will this start to apply to this year's 2nd round draft picks? As in those drafted in the 2nd round of the upcoming 2018 draft I think it should apply to all 2nd Rounders as it stands, but good point!
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Post by Ian Noble on Jan 29, 2018 16:24:18 GMT
Okay there's been no opposition to this idea, and I can't think of a reason not to do it, so I'm going to implement it. Starting immediately, all teams will possess Bird Rights on their already existing second round rookie contracts. Good call Charles Barkley!
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Feb 7, 2018 12:43:58 GMT
Okay there's been no opposition to this idea, and I can't think of a reason not to do it, so I'm going to implement it. Starting immediately, all teams will possess Bird Rights on their already existing second round rookie contracts. Good call Charles Barkley! Will this include 2 year ones?
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Post by Ian Noble on Feb 7, 2018 13:09:14 GMT
Okay there's been no opposition to this idea, and I can't think of a reason not to do it, so I'm going to implement it. Starting immediately, all teams will possess Bird Rights on their already existing second round rookie contracts. Good call Charles Barkley! Will this include 2 year ones? I'll make the call and say 'yes'. It applies to all rookie contracts, 1st and 2nd Round, including deals that were only two years in length to begin with.
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Feb 7, 2018 19:36:42 GMT
Will this include 2 year ones? I'll make the call and say 'yes'. It applies to all rookie contracts, 1st and 2nd Round, including deals that were only two years in length to begin with. I actually really like that. It will make the 2 year deals worth signing and add guys into the market sooner which is just more fun.
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