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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Jan 24, 2018 18:29:22 GMT
This guy is playing awful right now. His defense is not even good anymore, it wasn't as good last in Boston but now it's fallen off a cliff.
His shooting has regressed significantly at all levels, he can't pass, doesn't rebound and is a huge negative on the court, - 8.0 plus minus.
Suggested rating: 76 And I think that's generous
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Post by Charles Barkley on Jan 24, 2018 18:38:48 GMT
Jae Crowder a joke, he's a bum, he's trash
74
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Post by Jared Montini on Jan 24, 2018 19:25:30 GMT
76
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Post by Walt Frazier on Jan 24, 2018 23:55:23 GMT
I hate LeBron
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Post by Walt Frazier on Jan 25, 2018 0:24:12 GMT
Can't deny, he's not producing like an 80, regardless of if his defense is there or not, the counting stats just don't justify it at all.
As a sign for hope, I really don't believe he got THIS much worse, they just don't use him well at all. Also, so far in January, he's up to 45.5% fg (up from 39.1, 39.3, and 42 the previous 3 months).
Also, at 34.1% from 3, highest yet this season in any month.
On the season, he's still shooting 88.2% from the line which is awesome.
Trending up in ast, reb, steals, blocks. I'm hoping he's slowly figuring it out, basically, and I hope I'm putting up a thread in like 2 months to bump him up.
Anyway, I don't think he's an 80, but I don't believe he's so bad as a 76 either. He's still starting (43 out of 46 games, he's started) for one of the better teams in the East.
78
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Jan 25, 2018 9:19:44 GMT
Lol at cavs being one of the top teams in the east. Without LeBron they'd be a bottom 5 lottery team
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Post by Walt Frazier on Jan 25, 2018 12:33:01 GMT
Lol at cavs being one of the top teams in the east. Without LeBron they'd be a bottom 5 lottery team Disagree. They would be a very different team, but IT2, Love, Crowder, etc would get them in the playoffs IMO. IT2 carried the Celts there, Love produces offensively, Crowder would have a much bigger and appropriate role, etc. I get you're trying to make a point but the hyperbole is strong here.
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Jan 25, 2018 14:08:23 GMT
Lol at cavs being one of the top teams in the east. Without LeBron they'd be a bottom 5 lottery team Disagree. They would be a very different team, but IT2, Love, Crowder, etc would get them in the playoffs IMO. IT2 carried the Celts there, Love produces offensively, Crowder would have a much bigger and appropriate role, etc. I get you're trying to make a point but the hyperbole is strong here. IT has been awful so far this year. Kevin Love has had a good offensive season but is totally miscast as a center, that's a big reason why the cavs have the 2nd worst defense in the NBA imo. Ty Lue is one of the worst coaches in the league and JR Smith is the worst starter in the NBA. They might not be bottom 5 but they'd definitely be bottom 10.
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Post by Ian Noble on Jan 25, 2018 14:36:00 GMT
Good example of how poor management/ownership is not punished if you don't have a promotion/relegation system. Sacramento or New York would be a fifth division, Serie Z team if there was relegation. Instead they get rewarded with top draft picks. SMH Like Brian Scalabrine said, the Cavs would be nothing without Lebron because the management/ownership influence, including Lebron in this case, does not create a situation where players can succeed like they do in Boston, San Antonio or Golden State. Anyway back to Crowder... 75
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Jan 25, 2018 16:17:05 GMT
1 thing changed, Crowder went from an amazing coach to a garbage one. Tyronn Lue apparently can ruin hustle players too with his god awful lineups and strategy.
75
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Kevin Hollis
Former Thunder GM for 7 years
All Star
Posts: 2,838
Dec 16, 2022 11:27:40 GMT
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Post by Kevin Hollis on Jan 25, 2018 20:40:50 GMT
77
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Post by Charles Barkley on Jan 26, 2018 0:26:28 GMT
Lol at cavs being one of the top teams in the east. Without LeBron they'd be a bottom 5 lottery team Disagree. They would be a very different team, but IT2, Love, Crowder, etc would get them in the playoffs IMO. IT2 carried the Celts there, Love produces offensively, Crowder would have a much bigger and appropriate role, etc. I get you're trying to make a point but the hyperbole is strong here. Bro, have you seen the way IT and Crowder have played, they have played awful and have destroyed the locker room. If you want to say Celtics IT and Crowder, I'd agree, but these two have been awful. And to make it worse, IT is causing chemistry problems. I'm ready for IT and Crowder to Charolette for Batum and Kemba
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Post by Charles Barkley on Jan 26, 2018 0:27:27 GMT
Disagree. They would be a very different team, but IT2, Love, Crowder, etc would get them in the playoffs IMO. IT2 carried the Celts there, Love produces offensively, Crowder would have a much bigger and appropriate role, etc. I get you're trying to make a point but the hyperbole is strong here. IT has been awful so far this year. Kevin Love has had a good offensive season but is totally miscast as a center, that's a big reason why the cavs have the 2nd worst defense in the NBA imo. Ty Lue is one of the worst coaches in the league and JR Smith is the worst starter in the NBA. They might not be bottom 5 but they'd definitely be bottom 10. They'd be kevin love's t-wolves
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Post by Walt Frazier on Jan 26, 2018 0:37:26 GMT
IT has been awful so far this year. Kevin Love has had a good offensive season but is totally miscast as a center, that's a big reason why the cavs have the 2nd worst defense in the NBA imo. Ty Lue is one of the worst coaches in the league and JR Smith is the worst starter in the NBA. They might not be bottom 5 but they'd definitely be bottom 10. They'd be kevin love's t-wolves Assuming a healthy IT2, he's better for a team than Rubio was at that time. Love never had a Jae or even these guys like JR Smith, etc. Loves TWolves plus IT2s cats from last year combined with better supporting cast than Love ever had... Just my opinion. LeBron on a team changes how everything works. They're not a bad team... Getting old, and maybe not a good fit together, whether Lue or LeBron or both have issues running this team... But I don't believe the actual players are suddenly worse.
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Jan 26, 2018 1:38:56 GMT
They'd be kevin love's t-wolves Assuming a healthy IT2, he's better for a team than Rubio was at that time. Love never had a Jae or even these guys like JR Smith, etc. Loves TWolves plus IT2s cats from last year combined with better supporting cast than Love ever had... Just my opinion. LeBron on a team changes how everything works. They're not a bad team... Getting old, and maybe not a good fit together, whether Lue or LeBron or both have issues running this team... But I don't believe the actual players are suddenly worse. I feel that way too for the most part. Then again, Crowder wasn't a world beater for Carlisle in Dallas either. Brad Stevens is an expert at putting players in the right situations, the right roles with the right responsibilities to allow them to succeed. Carlisle is pretty good/good at it and Lue is god damned terrible at it.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Jan 26, 2018 4:29:02 GMT
System / fit / role matters a ton. I think ratings should be tempered a little in cases like this. Can Jae rightfully stay at an 80? No. Is he suddenly 5 points worse? Seems pretty unlikely.
Be a little sensical and gradual in cases like this. Same as why people aren't giving Louis Williams an 86 generally. We have a pretty good sized sample saying a player is one thing. He may be under or over performing comparatively, and may eventually get the rating that he LOOKS like he is at the current time, but a drastic change is likely going to be corrected because this is presently an overreaction. Like Curry being dropped to a 93 late last year, as another example.
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Post by Chauncey Billups on Jan 26, 2018 7:04:54 GMT
Good arguments on both sides, but I have to side with Walt. Seems a little drastic to drop him that low. I think the fact that a lot of Cavs players are slumping this year goes to show it's not an individual talent kind of thing, the system just isn't working. Seems silly to say, but I don't think Crowder's shitty play is necessarily his fault. There's something going on in that locker room and it's affecting everyone. The obvious dilemma is that everybody knows James is going to bolt after the season, although Lue, and currently Love, will be/is the scapegoat. It's gotta be a massive elephant in the room at this point and morale is down.
Anyways, I'll go 78.
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Jan 26, 2018 8:24:53 GMT
System / fit / role matters a ton. I think ratings should be tempered a little in cases like this. Can Jae rightfully stay at an 80? No. Is he suddenly 5 points worse? Seems pretty unlikely. Be a little sensical and gradual in cases like this. Same as why people aren't giving Louis Williams an 86 generally. We have a pretty good sized sample saying a player is one thing. He may be under or over performing comparatively, and may eventually get the rating that he LOOKS like he is at the current time, but a drastic change is likely going to be corrected because this is presently an overreaction. Like Curry being dropped to a 93 late last year, as another example. The problem is that Crowder started his regression last year, it's just that no one noticed. His defense was much worse on the Celtics last season, like significantly. Asa Celtics fan I saw it and if you look at the stats they back me up. Jae has had only 1.5 years in his career where he's been deserving of high 70s-80 rating, every other year he's not been that good and a big part of that is Brad Stevens. I'd say those 1.5 years are the outliers, not the other way around
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Post by Ian Noble on Feb 4, 2018 13:00:03 GMT
Note: whatever happens with Crowder his Inside Scoring needs to get nerfed. Currently he's at 90 Inside Scoring, which is Top 10 in the league, and last time I looked he's not Hakeem Olajuwon
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Post by Walt Frazier on Feb 4, 2018 14:39:04 GMT
Note: whatever happens with Crowder his Inside Scoring needs to get nerfed. Currently he's at 90 Inside Scoring, which is Top 10 in the league, and last time I looked he's not Hakeem Olajuwon Don't remember exactly, but the last time he was changed, probably in 2016-17, this is what I was looking at: nbasavant.com/player.php?ddlYear=2016&ddlShotMade=&ddlTeamDefense=&player_id=203109Last year he made 72.6% of his shots at the rim. And again, I've acknowledged openly I'm not quite sure what Dunk vs. Inside does in the past, though Barber's recent insight helps a bit. Still not sure what dunk actually does in game. Anyway, yea this year his % at the rim is down to 64.2% (slightly above league average of 63.1%) but it definitely needs to come down. Just showing my work, I guess.
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Post by Ian Noble on Feb 4, 2018 20:34:13 GMT
Note: whatever happens with Crowder his Inside Scoring needs to get nerfed. Currently he's at 90 Inside Scoring, which is Top 10 in the league, and last time I looked he's not Hakeem Olajuwon Don't remember exactly, but the last time he was changed, probably in 2016-17, this is what I was looking at: nbasavant.com/player.php?ddlYear=2016&ddlShotMade=&ddlTeamDefense=&player_id=203109Last year he made 72.6% of his shots at the rim. And again, I've acknowledged openly I'm not quite sure what Dunk vs. Inside does in the past, though Barber's recent insight helps a bit. Still not sure what dunk actually does in game. Anyway, yea this year his % at the rim is down to 64.2% (slightly above league average of 63.1%) but it definitely needs to come down. Just showing my work, I guess. 72.6% at the rim?! The Brad Stevens effect.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Feb 4, 2018 23:32:43 GMT
Don't remember exactly, but the last time he was changed, probably in 2016-17, this is what I was looking at: nbasavant.com/player.php?ddlYear=2016&ddlShotMade=&ddlTeamDefense=&player_id=203109Last year he made 72.6% of his shots at the rim. And again, I've acknowledged openly I'm not quite sure what Dunk vs. Inside does in the past, though Barber's recent insight helps a bit. Still not sure what dunk actually does in game. Anyway, yea this year his % at the rim is down to 64.2% (slightly above league average of 63.1%) but it definitely needs to come down. Just showing my work, I guess. 72.6% at the rim?! The Brad Stevens effect. I'll grant that Stevens is a very good coach. I think the Cavs this year are MORE of a poison than Stevens was a positive on Jae, if that makes sense? Said another way - he's somewhere in between last year and this year, maybe, but he's closer to last year. IMO. This year's Cavs and the way they are(n't) using him are bringing him down more than Stevens' coaching brought him up.
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