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Post by Ian Noble on Jan 1, 2018 10:02:03 GMT
Current: 76 Proposed: 85
Ben is still putting up legendary numbers for a rookie, clearly looks like a superstar and might be the first rookie to play in an all star game since Blake Griffin.
Ben's D5 stats fall well behind real-life:
IRL: 16.5ppg 8.6rpg 7.6apg on 50.4%FG D5: 6.0ppg 4.8rpg 6.8apg on 34.3%FG
It looks like he needs more of a boost to scoring and rebounding than passing.
6th in the NBA in Assists Per Game 6th in Steals Per Game 18th in Rebounds Per Game 5th in Defensive Plus/Minus etc.etc.etc.
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Jan 1, 2018 12:25:42 GMT
84 because he still can't shoot a lick. Total beast though
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 19, 2024 2:12:27 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2018 14:15:13 GMT
Don't use sim stats and real life stats as an argument!
-Ian, when it's not his player
82
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Post by Jared Montini on Jan 1, 2018 16:22:42 GMT
83 I don't like him as a player. Can't shoot anything outside 20 feet. But since he's such a good passer and rebounder 83 seems fair rn
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Post by Chauncey Billups on Jan 1, 2018 16:25:03 GMT
83
Undoubtedly the ROY. Anybody who says otherwise is fooling themselves. He'll never be lights out, but he doesn't have to be.
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Kevin Hollis
Former Thunder GM for 7 years
All Star
Posts: 2,838
Dec 16, 2022 11:27:40 GMT
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Post by Kevin Hollis on Jan 1, 2018 19:45:16 GMT
81 - can't shoot
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Post by Walt Frazier on Jan 1, 2018 20:19:55 GMT
I think we're in the right rating range, sans Ian (for now!)
That said, I'm going to continue to attempt to push the fact that athletic players, and swing-players in particular, and especially players who really do a bit of everything, just may need a higher OVR rating than you might think.
I'll go 84
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Post by Charles Barkley on Jan 1, 2018 20:26:13 GMT
81
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 19, 2024 2:12:27 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2018 20:29:36 GMT
I think we're in the right rating range, sans Ian (for now!) That said, I'm going to continue to attempt to push the fact that athletic players, and swing-players in particular, and especially players who really do a bit of everything, just may need a higher OVR rating than you might think. I'll go 84 Except when they can only make a bucket from within 3 feet of the rim. How many shooting categories is Ben Simmons gonna be rated 50 points lower than other people who you wanna rate similarly.
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Deleted
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May 19, 2024 2:12:27 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2018 20:31:40 GMT
I think it's extremely unrealistic to expect Simmons to come close to the point totals in the sim he does in real life. It's not like we can give him a 300 in dunking to get his usage where it'd need to be. I'm still on team don't artificially inflate a players outside shooting stats to increase usage, and always will be.
Every other player has to deal with the fact that the sim uses them differently when we rate them appropriately, but again we are making a special exception for a couple players? There are fucktons of players that won't average what they do in real life in the sim because they are rated according to their ability, not artificially bumped so they can get stats. It's always been that way too, until Ian decided to bump people stats in the middle of the season last year. Everyone was pissed at that, and making it happen by way of a SW thread is still just as bullshit.
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Post by Jared Montini on Jan 1, 2018 20:34:10 GMT
I also wanna say that being a rookie in your second season shouldn't be a thing. He had a whole year to work with NBA trainers. It's not impressive to me if he wins ROTY. Embiid and Blake Griffin are also examples
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Post by Andrei Kirilenko on Jan 1, 2018 20:49:18 GMT
81
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Post by Chauncey Billups on Jan 1, 2018 21:01:18 GMT
I don't like hyping somebody else's player up too much, but if you haven't actually watched him play, you should. He's the real deal. I'm actually hoping to snag some Pistons-76ers tickets later in the year.
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Post by Ian Noble on Jan 1, 2018 21:44:27 GMT
The person who knows this the most is Ben Simmons, which is why he facilitates for others and gets into the paint and still averages 16.5ppg
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Post by Walt Frazier on Jan 1, 2018 22:49:53 GMT
I think we're in the right rating range, sans Ian (for now!) That said, I'm going to continue to attempt to push the fact that athletic players, and swing-players in particular, and especially players who really do a bit of everything, just may need a higher OVR rating than you might think. I'll go 84 Except when they can only make a bucket from within 3 feet of the rim. How many shooting categories is Ben Simmons gonna be rated 50 points lower than other people who you wanna rate similarly. I could respond in at least two ways. Version 1 - And how many rebounding, passing, O-Aware, jump, strength, quick, speed, handling, etc categories is he going to be rated a lot higher than other people who are rated similarly? Version 2 - Well, his Dunk can be a 99, his Inside Scoring can be fairly high (he does finish at 67.6% inside, significantly higher than even someone like Drummond who is at 63.5% I believe (I'm really only using him b/c I just looked at him today, but he lives inside). His 3pt should be a 1 (lowest rating possible). His FG should be probably about a 40-45, based on all other ratings I've done and based on him shooting 31.1% from "mid-range" compared to 40.1% league average, and 35.6% from the key compared to 39.3% league average. So, not that many. Imagine Drummond, again. Rated an 86 in our league, and having just modified him, it wouldn't even be super crazy if he had one or two more OVR points. He's quite athletic for a big man, likely the best rebounder in the league, granted, and has some handle and lately some passing skills that need accounted for. Now, take away some rebounding (even 2 OVR points worth on each O-Reb and D-Reb, which is probably too severe as Ben gets nearly 9 rpg), add some FG (2 OVR points worth probably), add speed, add quickness, take away strength, add jump, add a ton of handle, add a ton of passing, take away some block but add some steal, etc. All told, you'd come away with Simmons in the 90's using just that method, which I'm not. But I'm illustrating your point told a different way. Ben can do a lot at a very high level in our rating system. He has 1 huge flaw (3pt shooting) and another moderate flaw (fg shooting). There are a ton of other categories, many of which he's very good or a beast level.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Jan 1, 2018 23:07:44 GMT
I think it's extremely unrealistic to expect Simmons to come close to the point totals in the sim he does in real life. It's not like we can give him a 300 in dunking to get his usage where it'd need to be. I'm still on team don't artificially inflate a players outside shooting stats to increase usage, and always will be. Every other player has to deal with the fact that the sim uses them differently when we rate them appropriately, but again we are making a special exception for a couple players? There are fucktons of players that won't average what they do in real life in the sim because they are rated according to their ability, not artificially bumped so they can get stats. It's always been that way too, until Ian decided to bump people stats in the middle of the season last year. Everyone was pissed at that, and making it happen by way of a SW thread is still just as bullshit. As for this post, I agree. We can try out different "Styles", which, in theory, should be very influential in how a player plays. If he's a 6, a "slashing guard" type, set to shoot the 3pt shot 0 or 1% of the time, that may help. Or, maybe he's a 4, which is basically a "post player with mid-range shot". Not quite sure which existing category works best for him, somewhat like Giannis though Simmons has absolutely zero 3pt shot. I agree we should not artificially inflate players shooting stats in an attempt to increase usage.
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Post by Ian Noble on Jan 1, 2018 23:30:49 GMT
I think it's extremely unrealistic to expect Simmons to come close to the point totals in the sim he does in real life. It's not like we can give him a 300 in dunking to get his usage where it'd need to be. I'm still on team don't artificially inflate a players outside shooting stats to increase usage, and always will be. Every other player has to deal with the fact that the sim uses them differently when we rate them appropriately, but again we are making a special exception for a couple players? There are fucktons of players that won't average what they do in real life in the sim because they are rated according to their ability, not artificially bumped so they can get stats. It's always been that way too, until Ian decided to bump people stats in the middle of the season last year. Everyone was pissed at that, and making it happen by way of a SW thread is still just as bullshit. As for this post, I agree. We can try out different "Styles", which, in theory, should be very influential in how a player plays. If he's a 6, a "slashing guard" type, set to shoot the 3pt shot 0 or 1% of the time, that may help. Or, maybe he's a 4, which is basically a "post player with mid-range shot". Not quite sure which existing category works best for him, somewhat like Giannis though Simmons has absolutely zero 3pt shot. I agree we should not artificially inflate players shooting stats in an attempt to increase usage. FWIW - I agree as well.
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Jan 2, 2018 1:56:05 GMT
82
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Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on Jan 14, 2018 4:20:22 GMT
83
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Jan 14, 2018 6:17:10 GMT
Also for the record, when Towns was dropping 25 and 13 I could only get him to like an 84. We have to be slow with the rookies.
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Post by Mike Krzyzewski on Jan 18, 2018 16:48:10 GMT
82
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