|
Post by James Kay on Dec 9, 2017 20:39:43 GMT
Current: 95 Suggested: 97
Playing absolutely insane ball, leading the West, his season so far is very nearly the same as Curry's second MVP season. Harden is leading the league in threes, FTs, points, win shares, BPM, and is 2nd in VORP and in assists per game even with CP3 on the same team. He's got a higher TS% than Durant. Can do anything on the court, and he's actually super athletic, even though people write him off as not being that much of an athlete. His dunks and vertical are undermentioned IMO. BBM is giving him a 75% chance to win MVP as of now, and he's been in the race for years.
He may have transcended into that upper echelon of very very top tier players with Lebron, Durant, and Curry.
|
|
|
Post by Jared Montini on Dec 9, 2017 21:19:09 GMT
96
1.lebron 2. KD 3. Curry 4. Kawahi 5. Harden
Top 5 best in the league
|
|
|
Post by Brian Scalabrine on Dec 9, 2017 22:19:27 GMT
96
|
|
|
Post by Ian Noble on Dec 10, 2017 9:57:17 GMT
When we get beyond the mid-90s I think we have to start thinking where a player's performances lie in comparison to the all-time greats imho.
Jordan is a 99 Maybe prime Shaq and current Lebron could scratch 99 for a season or two Lebron is currently 98 Magic Johnson and Larry Bird should be a 97 Durant is 97
Maybe Durant shouldn't be as high as 97, because I don't feel like Harden can be seen as better than Magic or Bird yet. Maybe Harden needs more sustained seasons of playoff success first? I think 96 maximum, probably stay at 95 and we can re-evaluate later this year, maybe after the playoffs.
|
|
|
Post by Jared Montini on Dec 10, 2017 15:02:32 GMT
I wasn't talking with my brother about this the other day. I think Harden is better than magic Johnson. Harden is a top 10 offensive player of all time. He's gets to the line with ease and is a great shooter. He averages 9+ assists now all the time. The only thing keeping me from a 97 is his effort on defense. Though it has improved. If he wins 2 mvps and wins one title at least, then harden is a top 15 player ever imo. As for KD, I think he's the 3rd greatest offensive player ever. So he def deserves a 97
|
|
|
Post by Brian Scalabrine on Dec 10, 2017 15:07:05 GMT
I wasn't talking with my brother about this the other day. I think Harden is better than magic Johnson. Harden is a top 10 offensive player of all time. He's gets to the line with ease and is a great shooter. He averages 9+ assists now all the time. The only thing keeping me from a 97 is his effort on defense. Though it has improved. If he wins 2 mvps and wins one title at least, then harden is a top 15 player ever imo. As for KD, I think he's the 3rd greatest offensive player ever. So he def deserves a 97 I see your argument but magic was extremely versatile, he played center in the close out game of the NBA finals his rookie year and dominated. As great as harden is he is pretty much relegated to being a guard. Also while magic was probably just as bad as harden on d that was mostly a function of effort imo, he had the length, quickness and iq to be a good defender, just nobody in the 80s cared. I think if harden was 6'9 he'd be better than magic but I don't think harden's shooting advantage overcomes the size difference and all that goes along with that. Not to mention that magic's teammates absolutely loved him, it's more mixed with James
|
|
|
Post by Ian Noble on Dec 10, 2017 15:09:54 GMT
Stay at 95 from me
|
|
Kevin Hollis
Former Thunder GM for 7 years
All Star
Posts: 2,838
Dec 16, 2022 11:27:40 GMT
|
Post by Kevin Hollis on Dec 11, 2017 0:42:28 GMT
95
|
|
|
Post by Walt Frazier on Dec 11, 2017 3:01:19 GMT
I'll give him the 96
|
|
|
Post by Alex English on Dec 11, 2017 3:27:16 GMT
97.
He only has a 70 FG and 74 3PT right now, which way too low for Harden imo. His numbers this season are pretty crazy too.
FG: 46.6% on 21.4 attempts 2P: 52.0% on 10.5 attempts 3P: 40.6% on 10.9 attempts FT: 87.1% on 9.4 attempts
Shooting 40% from three on 11 attempts per game is nuts.
|
|
|
Post by Walt Frazier on Dec 11, 2017 4:00:37 GMT
97. He only has a 70 FG and 74 3PT right now, which way too low for Harden imo. His numbers this season are pretty crazy too. FG: 46.6% on 21.4 attempts 2P: 52.0% on 10.5 attempts 3P: 40.6% on 10.9 attempts FT: 87.1% on 9.4 attempts Shooting 40% from three on 11 attempts per game is nuts. Kinda thought Ian bumped those on his own in-game last year, but maybe they were even lower than that and he brought them up to that level. I can rework everything even if he gets no boost, just saying.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
May 5, 2024 11:23:16 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2017 13:22:05 GMT
92
Does this guy even defense?
|
|
|
Post by Jared Montini on Dec 11, 2017 14:30:35 GMT
92 Does this guy even defense? come on bro
|
|
|
Post by Ian Noble on Dec 11, 2017 14:38:18 GMT
97. He only has a 70 FG and 74 3PT right now, which way too low for Harden imo. His numbers this season are pretty crazy too. FG: 46.6% on 21.4 attempts 2P: 52.0% on 10.5 attempts 3P: 40.6% on 10.9 attempts FT: 87.1% on 9.4 attempts Shooting 40% from three on 11 attempts per game is nuts. Kinda thought Ian bumped those on his own in-game last year, but maybe they were even lower than that and he brought them up to that level. I can rework everything even if he gets no boost, just saying. Those ratings were put back where they should be. I think the one thing that came of that episode was that I discovered that the FG and 3PT ratings also control usage rate (in terms of shooting those shots), and therefore shooting percentages need to be balanced with usage rate in instances where the end product diverges significantly, like we found with Harden and Westbrook.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
May 5, 2024 11:23:16 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2017 15:35:13 GMT
Those ratings were put back where they should be.
I think the one thing that came of that episode was that I discovered that the FG and 3PT ratings also control usage rate (in terms of shooting those shots), and therefore shooting percentages need to be balanced with usage rate in instances where the end product diverges significantly, like we found with Harden and Westbrook. I personally hate this method. We aren't trying to get players to emulate their real life statistical output that is relative to their coaching/systems for 99% of players. But for the best ones we do? People that own players whose numbers are inflated by ridiculous (30%+) real life usage rates just need to get over the fact that their players won't get used that much here. We shouldn't make them more efficient simply because the CPU coach doesn't over-use their inefficient player like the real life coach does. We don't do it for anyone else. GMs know that the CPU coach won't use players that way, and need to value those players accordingly. Not complain that their players need efficiency boosts to artificially increase their effectiveness in the sim to make up for a system difference. If people want to use a sim that can adjust usage rates, go to that, otherwise bumping efficiency to make up for usage rate in a small subset of players is gross to me. *note I am talking more about RW than Harden in this case, as Harden has been much more efficient lately
|
|
|
Post by Ian Noble on Dec 11, 2017 16:25:11 GMT
I personally hate this method. We aren't trying to get players to emulate their real life statistical output that is relative to their coaching/systems for 99% of players. But for the best ones we do? People that own players whose numbers are inflated by ridiculous (30%+) real life usage rates just need to get over the fact that their players won't get used that much here. We shouldn't make them more efficient simply because the CPU coach doesn't over-use their inefficient player like the real life coach does. We don't do it for anyone else. GMs know that the CPU coach won't use players that way, and need to value those players accordingly. Not complain that their players need efficiency boosts to artificially increase their effectiveness in the sim to make up for a system difference. If people want to use a sim that can adjust usage rates, go to that, otherwise bumping efficiency to make up for usage rate in a small subset of players is gross to me. *note I am talking more about RW than Harden in this case, as Harden has been much more efficient lately This is probably a discussion for a completely separate thread but I disagree. We're aiming for realism, in instances where that means a compromise must be made, then a compromise should be made, usage rate is a factor as much as shooting percentage. FWIW I also doubt the difference in FG or 3PT rating will be more than 5 rating points.
|
|
|
Post by Jeremiah Hill on Dec 11, 2017 22:46:16 GMT
98 his defense has improved to average. With the best offensive tools in the game he's got to be able to get to 98.
|
|