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May 6, 2024 2:42:09 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2015 14:40:20 GMT
If you look at the Hawks system, look where their coach came from, they run the same system the Spurs run. It revolves around ball movement. It's why Teague's assist numbers are lower than that of other "elite" PGs like Wall. Everyone shares in the wealth. Now from there, look at how we have had the Spurs players rated in the Sim. No one is currently above an 86 I believe. And, I'll say this again, I hate Paul Millsap. I hate his game. I hate how he plays basketball. Yet, I am able to take it all in, look at it, put my personal bias aside, and realize that the guy is worthy of an 85 rating. Why bring Love into this? It's a different situation and a different system. My opinion on the two players is my opinion, if you disagree with my opinion, that's cool. But comparing Love to Millsap isn't a fair comparison. No one is currently above an 86 because they're all old. Spurs in their heyday was like Duncan 94, Parker 88, Ginobili 89 Exactly. If CB is saying he is never going to rate Kawhi higher than a 86 because he is a spur then he is out of his mind.
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Post by Andrei Kirilenko on Feb 7, 2015 14:40:38 GMT
^ altho I suppose this system is more of a recent development for the Spurs in the scheme of things. Still, I don't think that's a good reason not to rate any Hawks above 86
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Kevin Hollis
Former Thunder GM for 7 years
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Posts: 2,838
Dec 16, 2022 11:27:40 GMT
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Post by Kevin Hollis on Feb 7, 2015 15:28:06 GMT
If you look at the Hawks system, look where their coach came from, they run the same system the Spurs run. It revolves around ball movement. It's why Teague's assist numbers are lower than that of other "elite" PGs like Wall. Everyone shares in the wealth. Now from there, look at how we have had the Spurs players rated in the Sim. No one is currently above an 86 I believe. And, I'll say this again, I hate Paul Millsap. I hate his game. I hate how he plays basketball. Yet, I am able to take it all in, look at it, put my personal bias aside, and realize that the guy is worthy of an 85 rating. Why bring Love into this? It's a different situation and a different system. My opinion on the two players is my opinion, if you disagree with my opinion, that's cool. But comparing Love to Millsap isn't a fair comparison. Exactly what Barber said. You have no valid point in this argument. I bring Love in because they play the same position. I would bet my life on it that Millsap would have a better stat line than Love if they were to switch places. If the Cavs had Millsap instead of Love, they would be the favorites to win, no questions asked.
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Kevin Hollis
Former Thunder GM for 7 years
All Star
Posts: 2,838
Dec 16, 2022 11:27:40 GMT
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Post by Kevin Hollis on Feb 7, 2015 15:32:52 GMT
And please elaborate on why you hate his game. He plays great defense, top passer at his position, can shoot, can play well with another top big, and he can post up. His only flaw really is that he can be considered undersized.
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Post by Charles Barkley on Feb 7, 2015 17:14:43 GMT
And please elaborate on why you hate his game. He plays great defense, top passer at his position, can shoot, can play well with another top big, and he can post up. His only flaw really is that he can be considered undersized. If I am building my perfect team, I don't want a guy like Paul Millsap at PF, its just my opinion. I don't like his game. I am not saying that he sucks, I am just saying its not for me.
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Post by Charles Barkley on Feb 7, 2015 17:15:09 GMT
No one is currently above an 86 because they're all old. Spurs in their heyday was like Duncan 94, Parker 88, Ginobili 89 Exactly. If CB is saying he is never going to rate Kawhi higher than a 86 because he is a spur then he is out of his mind. That wasn't the point of the argument.
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Post by Charles Barkley on Feb 7, 2015 17:24:49 GMT
If you look at the Hawks system, look where their coach came from, they run the same system the Spurs run. It revolves around ball movement. It's why Teague's assist numbers are lower than that of other "elite" PGs like Wall. Everyone shares in the wealth. Now from there, look at how we have had the Spurs players rated in the Sim. No one is currently above an 86 I believe. And, I'll say this again, I hate Paul Millsap. I hate his game. I hate how he plays basketball. Yet, I am able to take it all in, look at it, put my personal bias aside, and realize that the guy is worthy of an 85 rating. Why bring Love into this? It's a different situation and a different system. My opinion on the two players is my opinion, if you disagree with my opinion, that's cool. But comparing Love to Millsap isn't a fair comparison. Exactly what Barber said. You have no valid point in this argument. I bring Love in because they play the same position. I would bet my life on it that Millsap would have a better stat line than Love if they were to switch places. If the Cavs had Millsap instead of Love, they would be the favorites to win, no questions asked. I don't have to have a valid point to state my opinion, everyone else makes no sense half the time yet they can say what they want to. I don't like Paul Millsap. This has been known since I came into the Sim, and traded him away. The point I was trying to make that kind of slipped away from everyone was that the Hawks are about the team more so than any one individual on the team. They share their wealth. They pass the ball around well. Does this hurt Millsap? Yeah, to those that just look at the stats and see his line. It also hurts everyone on that team in terms of OVR rating, for those that just check the box score. My point isn't that no one deserves to be over an 86, my point is that it is hard to see each player's "greatness" because of the system they are in and, because of this, people won't vote him in the upper 80's. But, is it the system Millsap, Teague, and crew are in? Or are they that good? I think in the case of Millsap, he is that good. Which is why, even though I have an irrational hate for him, I voted him to be an 85. The Hawks are a great team right now. They probably play as a team the best in the NBA. They move the ball, they play good defense, they're are good team. They're modeled after the Spurs but probably have more talent on the team than those Spurs teams post-Robinson era, pre-Kawhi era did. Which is why the stat lines are more averaged out and aren't crazy for any player in particular. I'm not saying no player in this system deserves to be above an 86, but I doubt anyone will become higher than an 88, because all people do is look at the box score and see the PTS/REBS/ASTS and go, "hmm well that's the same as so and so puts up and he's rated X, so I have to rate this guy X as well" But, to me, who looks past the box score and watches the games, and someone who hates Paul Millsap with a passion, I still gave him a 1 point increase. I don't see how that got everyone's panties ruffled but ok.
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Post by Charles Barkley on Feb 7, 2015 17:26:28 GMT
And please elaborate on why you hate his game. He plays great defense, top passer at his position, can shoot, can play well with another top big, and he can post up. His only flaw really is that he can be considered undersized. If I am building my perfect team, I don't want a guy like Paul Millsap at PF, its just my opinion. I don't like his game. I am not saying that he sucks, I am just saying its not for me. To further elaborate, everyone has those players that they are like, "damn I fuckin hate that dude" well that's me with Paul Millsap. Its one of the few times that I am irrational. Continue to crucify me for it though. I did give him a 1 pt increase.
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Kevin Hollis
Former Thunder GM for 7 years
All Star
Posts: 2,838
Dec 16, 2022 11:27:40 GMT
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Post by Kevin Hollis on Feb 7, 2015 17:28:00 GMT
Because you just back tracked on all of your points. You specifically said no one should be higher than an 86. I just asked what you didn't like about his game and you failed to answer. Shows that your opinion is based on absolutely no merit.
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Post by Charles Barkley on Feb 7, 2015 17:36:14 GMT
Because you just back tracked on all of your points. You specifically said no one should be higher than an 86. I just asked what you didn't like about his game and you failed to answer. Shows that your opinion is based on absolutely no merit. Please go back and re-read everything I said. I never said no one on the Hawks should be above an 86. I don't know where anyone got that from, but that is not what I said. There isn't any one thing in particular that I hate about Paul Millsap's game, its just I hate Paul Millsap. Its an irrational hate, and i still gave him a 1 pt increase. Like I said, I don't know why everyone is jumping down my throat and putting words into my mouth, but I guess everyone is just pissed off this morning.
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Post by Charles Barkley on Feb 7, 2015 17:38:44 GMT
No one is currently above an 86 because they're all old. Spurs in their heyday was like Duncan 94, Parker 88, Ginobili 89 Exactly. If CB is saying he is never going to rate Kawhi higher than a 86 because he is a spur then he is out of his mind. Where did I say this Adam? How did I imply this? I just said that no one on the Spurs is rated higher than an 86 and that they run the same system as the Hawks. Where the fuck do you get that out of what I said?
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Kevin Hollis
Former Thunder GM for 7 years
All Star
Posts: 2,838
Dec 16, 2022 11:27:40 GMT
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Post by Kevin Hollis on Feb 7, 2015 17:58:24 GMT
You are implying the Hawks and Spurs are a like-kind exchange in a way. Saying that no one is above an 86 on the Spurs and that should be the same for the Hawks. However, I do feel you edited some of your statements.
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Deleted
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May 6, 2024 2:42:09 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2015 18:03:29 GMT
Now from there, look at how we have had the Spurs players rated in the Sim. No one is currently above an 86 I believe. What am I supposed to take this to mean, except that you wouldn't rate anyone on the Hawks or Spurs higher than an 86 because they are "system guys".
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Post by Charles Barkley on Feb 7, 2015 18:23:56 GMT
Now from there, look at how we have had the Spurs players rated in the Sim. No one is currently above an 86 I believe. What am I supposed to take this to mean, except that you wouldn't rate anyone on the Hawks or Spurs higher than an 86 because they are "system guys". That no one on the Spurs is currently rated above an 86? I mean, that's exactly what it says, isn't it?
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Kevin Hollis
Former Thunder GM for 7 years
All Star
Posts: 2,838
Dec 16, 2022 11:27:40 GMT
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Post by Kevin Hollis on Feb 7, 2015 18:35:39 GMT
But you are implying that it is like that way because of the system, not because they are all old and about to retire.
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Post by Alex English on Feb 7, 2015 19:31:14 GMT
86
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Post by Charles Barkley on Mar 27, 2015 5:59:48 GMT
This thread will be closing soon and needs bumped, get your votes in or update your votes accordingly in your original posts
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Post by Sam Bowie on Mar 27, 2015 6:24:53 GMT
85,5 sounds good. This is the 1st Millsap I could find and I believe an upgrade would allow to reflect his new 3pt shooting ability.
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Post by Mike Krzyzewski on Apr 2, 2015 15:32:13 GMT
85
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