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Post by Walt Frazier on Jan 25, 2013 4:14:52 GMT
Ruben, you are not gonna like this, but actually, Clark is mine.
I've received confirmation from Ian about this as well.
Lukas' offer is invalid. His 4th year decreases by more than 11%, which is clearly stated in the rules. If that rule wasn't in place, I would have offered Clark 8 million in the first year and then 2-3 in each year afterwards...but since it is, I made a more normal contract which is what the rules call for in this Free Agency.
Since his 3rd year was $3,800,000, the LOWEST the 4th year could be is $3,382,000.
Ian PM'd Lukas about it, and gave him the chance to modify his offer. He (Ian) then told me that if Lukas hadn't updated his offer, then 24 hours after his original offer, Clark would be awarded to me.
I know people (maybe mostly Ruben & Lukas) aren't gonna like this, but you gotta play w/in the written rules when they are there, and these are clearly there.
*Bracing for shit-storm*
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Post by Rubén Magnano on Jan 25, 2013 4:29:35 GMT
Dude, you are getting lower and lower after each of your moves.
So, your last offer was:
Year 1: $3,550,000 Year 2: $3,160,000 Year 3: $2,813,000 Year 4: $2,505,000 Total: $12,028,000
Bobcats offered: Year 1: $3,800,000 Year 2: $4,000,000 Year 3: $3,800,000 Year 4: $3,200,000 Total: $14,800,000
So, you say Lukas missed his calculations. Still, if you take the year 4 as $3,200,000 with valid increases/decreases you would have:
Year 1: $3,672,630 Year 2: $4,039,893 Year 3: $3,595,505 Year 4: $3,200,000 Total: $14,508,028
It would be pretty ridiculous if Clark signs with you for $2,5M less because Lukas is bad at maths and happens to be busy.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Jan 25, 2013 4:41:39 GMT
It's not the #, it's the fact he made an invalid offer.
If it was valid, I may have redone my offer, but once I noticed it wasn't a legal offer, I didn't see why I should have to beat it.
Again, I'd love to put in a hugely front-loaded offer and break the rules like Lukas was doing there, but didn't.
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Post by Rubén Magnano on Jan 25, 2013 4:44:34 GMT
Again, I'd love to put in a hugely front-loaded offer and break the rules like Lukas was doing there, but didn't. Lukas would love to accept a proposal in which he is asked to reduce his offer to make it legal. Put it the way you want to. This is ridiculous and pathetic.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Jan 25, 2013 4:51:32 GMT
Hey, I asked Ian about it. If he would have said "nah man, either up your offer or I'll give him to Lukas at a similar contract but modified last year" or something, then I would have decided whether to up the offer or not.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Jan 25, 2013 5:09:43 GMT
Ian, not trying to put anything unnecessary on you, just don't want to be made to look like a cheater or bad guy when I'm the one following rules and asking the commish before I just assume or whatever else. Just defending my position with facts.
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Post by Rubén Magnano on Jan 25, 2013 5:18:13 GMT
In real life, It happens sometimes that there are rules that fail to commit their purpouse because they lack information that might apply to specific cases. That is why the interpretation of the rules is so important. What it means is more important than what it says.
Anyway, at least I hope you feel happy about winning a bid this way because it wouldn't make sense if everyone ends unhappy.
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Lucas Lutkus
Former Bobcats GM
Sophomore
Posts: 684
Jul 16, 2013 9:57:53 GMT
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Post by Lucas Lutkus on Jan 25, 2013 5:29:39 GMT
so... Earl Clark is not mine? Or i can redo my offer?
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Lucas Lutkus
Former Bobcats GM
Sophomore
Posts: 684
Jul 16, 2013 9:57:53 GMT
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Post by Lucas Lutkus on Jan 25, 2013 5:31:13 GMT
If i can redo it:
$3,300,000 $3,300,000 $3,300,000 $3,300,000
i'm very bad in math, that's why i'm a journalist, so i'm not going to change his contract hahahaha
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Post by Alex English on Jan 25, 2013 5:54:13 GMT
Haha this thread is crazy, and it's all for Earl 'I'll never be better than a role player' Clark. Some good comedy going on in here. Ian PM'd Lukas about it, and gave him the chance to modify his offer. He (Ian) then told me that if Lukas hadn't updated his offer, then 24 hours after his original offer, Clark would be awarded to me. This is interesting though, when did Ian send his PM? Like immediately after his offer? What if it was sent like 12-18 hours later? That would only give Lucas 6-12 hours to have a chance to log on, see the PM and change his offer. Seems a little unfair no? [/egging on the drama]
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Post by Walt Frazier on Jan 25, 2013 5:59:15 GMT
I get what you're doing Alex, and it's fine. From your seat, probably a lot of fun :-p
I don't know for sure when he got my PM's or sent his PM to Lukas. The rule has been there since the league started though, or if not, for a long time.
Also, most computers have a little calculator on it. You either go: $3,800,000 x .11 = 418,000 and subtract that from your original 3,800,000...OR you just go: $3,800,000 x .89 and you get the minimum you can offer.
And, this is just my feeling from the PM, so he can correct me if I'm wrong, because he didn't say this in so many words, but I looked at Ian's PM to Lukas as a courtesy. The offer was invalid, but Ian gave him a chance to re-do it b/c he's a nice guy. He really didn't "have to" PM someone and tell them "hey your offer is invalid", or he shouldn't have to, IMO.
Anyway, from what the commish told me, Earl belongs to the TWolves.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Jan 25, 2013 6:00:00 GMT
so... Earl Clark is not mine? Or i can redo my offer? What does the PM Ian sent you say? Wonder if he answered this question for you already.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Jan 25, 2013 6:01:28 GMT
Again, I'd love to put in a hugely front-loaded offer and break the rules like Lukas was doing there, but didn't. Lukas would love to accept a proposal in which he is asked to reduce his offer to make it legal. Put it the way you want to. This is ridiculous and pathetic. Or, redo his offer so the 4th year is more, I dunno. I see he's put up a theoretical offer but the fact is, that came 39 hours after the last legal offer, so that's pretty late IMO.
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Post by Rubén Magnano on Jan 25, 2013 6:05:32 GMT
Haha this thread is crazy, and it's all for Earl 'I'll never be better than a role player' Clark. Some good comedy going on in here. Ian PM'd Lukas about it, and gave him the chance to modify his offer. He (Ian) then told me that if Lukas hadn't updated his offer, then 24 hours after his original offer, Clark would be awarded to me. This is interesting though, when did Ian send his PM? Like immediately after his offer? What if it was sent like 12-18 hours later? That would only give Lucas 6-12 hours to have a chance to log on, see the PM and change his offer. Seems a little unfair no? [/egging on the drama] I totally missed that one. I swear i laughed out loud for like 15 seconds after reading your post. I get what you're doing Alex, and it's fine. From your seat, probably a lot of fun :-p And you should thank him for sharing it. Seriously, the Clark saga had a pathetic twist. At least now, It is comedy.
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Post by Clyde Drexler on Jan 25, 2013 6:21:17 GMT
Why the hell would you pay Earl Clak 8 million hahahaha
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Post by Rubén Magnano on Jan 25, 2013 6:34:03 GMT
Why the hell would you pay Earl Clak 8 million hahahaha He is starting over Pau Gasol now. In January, He had 3 games with triple-doubles (and 3 other borderline triple-doubles) including 1 game against Spurs in which he had 22 points (9-12 fg, 1-3 3P, 3-4 ft), 13 rebounds, 3 assists in only 28 minutes. He also showed some good promise in the playoffs with Magic and he is very young. 25 years old (Birthday: Jan 17, 1988). Maybe, DAntoni is fired in a couple of games and Clark goes back to being a benchwarmer but right now, he looks like a good risk with lot of potential.
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Lucas Lutkus
Former Bobcats GM
Sophomore
Posts: 684
Jul 16, 2013 9:57:53 GMT
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Post by Lucas Lutkus on Jan 25, 2013 6:58:20 GMT
so... Earl Clark is not mine? Or i can redo my offer? What does the PM Ian sent you say? Wonder if he answered this question for you already. It said: "Your most recent offer for Earl Clarke decreases by more than 11% of the previous year in the 4th Year of the contract. Gotta make it valid "
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Post by Rubén Magnano on Jan 25, 2013 7:09:15 GMT
It said: "Your most recent offer for Earl Clarke decreases by more than 11% of the previous year in the 4th Year of the contract. Gotta make it valid " Are you sure you didn't get a 2nd pm or something. Maybe the title of the pm says: "You have less than 24 hours"
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Post by Walt Frazier on Jan 25, 2013 14:27:21 GMT
Clyde, you talking about my hypothetical deal with 8 million in the first year? I have the cap this year, wouldn't hurt me to use it...but, that'd be an illegal offer. It'd just be so I could give the guy more money and he'd come to me.
But yea, can't decrease by more than 11% so couldn't do that.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Jan 25, 2013 14:31:48 GMT
Why the hell would you pay Earl Clak 8 million hahahaha He is starting over Pau Gasol now. In January, He had 3 games with triple-doubles (and 3 other borderline triple-doubles) including 1 game against Spurs in which he had 22 points (9-12 fg, 1-3 3P, 3-4 ft), 13 rebounds, 3 assists in only 28 minutes. He also showed some good promise in the playoffs with Magic and he is very young. 25 years old (Birthday: Jan 17, 1988). Maybe, DAntoni is fired in a couple of games and Clark goes back to being a benchwarmer but right now, he looks like a good risk with lot of potential. Rub, you meant double doubles. As far as I can see, Earl has never had a triple double. But yea, for me, at least at around the contract he was given, he's a good risk and has probably shown enough to be worth it already. Worst case for him is another coach comes in and doesn't play him (which would seem silly at this point), and then he walks after this year and someone buys in on him. I don't see how someone wouldn't give him a shot after what he's already done. In 10 January Games, 27:41 mpg...10.1 points, 8.8 rebounds, 2.1 assists, 1.1 blocks, .3 steals, only 1.1 TO's. Also, shooting 48.3% from the field, and 55.6% from 3, taking about 1 a game. 76.9% from the stripe. Guy definitely has talent and can play.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Jan 25, 2013 14:36:43 GMT
As far as this PM stuff goes, I can't tell you when Ian got my PM, but I can tell you that I sent my first one at 9:20 two nights ago, so less than 3 hours after I saw Lukas' offer. I tried to get out in front of it to see if I needed to beat the offer. I saw he was online but didn't get a response, so I sent another one yesterday just before 2:00. I got the following message almost immediately, still before 2:00 (ET)
Notice he's still spelling it "Clarke" :-p
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Post by Walt Frazier on Jan 25, 2013 14:38:10 GMT
It said: "Your most recent offer for Earl Clarke decreases by more than 11% of the previous year in the 4th Year of the contract. Gotta make it valid " Are you sure you didn't get a 2nd pm or something. Maybe the title of the pm says: "You have less than 24 hours" Again, Ian was a nice guy and tried to let him fix his invalid offer. If he was a stickler, Clark would have been mine yesterday at 9:01am ET since that was 24 hours since the last valid offer.
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Post by Ian Noble on Jan 26, 2013 10:36:42 GMT
Sorry to Lukas (CHA) and the Kings GMs, Earl Clark signs with the Timberwolves:
Year 1: $3,550,000 Year 2: $3,160,000 Year 3: $2,813,000 Year 4: $2,505,000
I know the rules have permitted for a situation that has rightly pissed off Ruben (SAC), this same thing has happened to me before and it pisses me off too - can you imagine how much it used to happen before players rated 70 or above were passed on to player agents?
However I stand by the 70 rating that is required for player agents to be involved. It's meant that this is the first time this has occurred.
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Post by Rubén Magnano on Jan 26, 2013 18:20:44 GMT
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Post by Walt Frazier on Jan 27, 2013 2:27:16 GMT
Lol, I'm sure Earl Clark would be so upset with 12 million dollars.
Also, funny coming from Ruben who is mad that he didn't get to sign Clark for the minimum :-p
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Post by Walt Frazier on Jan 27, 2013 2:28:18 GMT
WELCOME ABOARD EARL! We look forward to having you around for a long time and think you'll be a key member of our team! Bring that hard work and hustle to Minnesota and the team and fans will love you.
Welcome!
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Post by Rubén Magnano on Jan 27, 2013 2:53:41 GMT
Lol, I'm sure Earl Clark would be so upset with 12 million dollars. Also, funny coming from Ruben who is mad that he didn't get to sign Clark for the minimum :-p Yes, I offered little money when no one wanted him... Obviously, Clark would be upset if he signs for $12M when there is someone else willing to offer $15M.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Jan 27, 2013 6:03:07 GMT
That $15 would never have made it to Earl b/c it wasn't a valid offer, would have been shot down by the league...oh kinda like what happened here?
Nice one!
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Post by Rubén Magnano on Jan 27, 2013 6:31:06 GMT
The only reason why you keep replying after you got Clark is because you know that what happened is ridiculous and pathetic. You can say what you want but that won’t change the fact that his signing was a result of a total lack of common sense and cheap dirty techniques.
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Post by Rubén Magnano on Jan 27, 2013 8:07:25 GMT
This will my last post in this thread and for that reason I will explain for the last time why I think this is totally ridiculous and pathetic. $3,800,000 $4,000,000 $3,800,000 $3,200,000 New Offer Yeah, i really want Earl Clark, watched some of his games and man... He is amazing this season! Lukas made an invalid offer. Walt saw it and he had 3 options: a) send a pm to Lukas. b) send a pm to Ian to see if he could take advantage of the situation. c) act as a gentleman and say something like: Lukas, I noticed you have your contract wrong. I will take whatever that comes closer to it to make it valid: Year 1: $3,672,630 Year 2: $4,039,893 Year 3: $3,595,505 Year 4: $3,200,000 Total: $14,508,028 and then, make an improved offer. --------------------------------------------- He picked option b. He sent a pm to Ian who messaged Lukas: "Your most recent offer for Earl Clarke decreases by more than 11% of the previous year in the 4th Year of the contract. Gotta make it valid " Ian also said to Walt that if Lukas didn't update his offer in 24 hours after he made his offer he would lose. Walt probably thought something like: "Perfect, Lukas is inactive lately so I will get Clark" --------------------------------------------- Time went by and he declared himself as winner based on Lukas' mistake. Then, Lukas came in and made an offer and we all got to know that he received no clear indication that he had less than 24 hours to change his offer. If i can redo it: $3,300,000 $3,300,000 $3,300,000 $3,300,000 i'm very bad in math, that's why i'm a journalist, so i'm not going to change his contract hahahaha Walt, again had the option to act as a gentleman and accept Lukas' new bid but he decided not to. Then, after 2 days Ian made a post giving Clark to Wolves and Walt celebrated. At least, I call that playing dirty... Still, the use of rules with absolute lack of common sense is ridiculous.
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