Former All-Stars/Name Players

[Danny Longley]

I've been considering posting this for quite a while, finally decided to push it through because of that earlier exchange with San Antonio in the league's chat.

Now, the ratings we started with were pretty generous to the former All-Stars or basically any player who'd been coasting on their earlier seasons despite being years off their primes and IMO, way off the rating they should have. Instead of posting a thread per player, I thought maybe we could discuss them in just one thread, to get Stockwatch going.

Here's a few that IMO should go down.

Vince Carter
-Pretty much why I was so eager to let go of him, Carter is an 85. His calling card is scoring and he hasn't even posted 20 PPG since '08. He's still a pretty good scorer, but as he showed in his past year with Dallas, will most of the time just crawl to double digits with the occasional all-star-ish burst. He's good, but 85 seems like what a star on a middling team or a 2nd option on a contender should be rated. I think his rating should be closer to those of say, Grant Hill or Tracy McGrady, 78-80 ish.

Elton Brand
-I'd love to rag on Brand especially with that gigantic contract of his, but he posted a damn good season last year, albeit not one that I would consider worthy of an 84 - again, because 84 seems like what a 2nd option/star on a contender would be rated. I'd call him an 80 flat, because he's still capable of giving you a .500 FG% while giving you 12 and 7.

Jason Kidd
-Kidd was a headache for me last year, He couldn't hit the three anymore, couldn't guard even the slower PGs of the league anymore, and saw his assists drop to a career low 5.5 - worse than his rookie season. his perceived basketball IQ IMO, just isn't enough to cover the holes that age has left in his game anymore.

Mike Bibby
-He isn't a 78. He just really isn't. lol. His stroke's faded and way too slow to guard anyone nowadays.

Gilbert Arenas
-I love Gil, but he's posted 7ppg over the 66 games he's played since leaving the Wizards. Probably shouldn't be as harsh as how Bibby should be dropped, but I think he should be 76-77 since he still manages to show shades of his old game every once in a while.

Baron Davis
-6 PPG, 5 APG, .370% FG, .306% 3P. I'd love to give weight to his previous seasons, but really, 3 mediocre years with bad Clippers and Cavs teams? I wouldn't ask to be harder on him (rating-wise) had he not ended the season with the very serious, possibly career-ending knee injury.

Rashard Lewis
-Just really not an 83 IMO, maybe 77-79. Had a terrible season last year, but probably more due to the Wizards just being really bad. Still doesn't deserve to be above 80 though.

Metta World Peace
-Shot less than .400 for his last two years as a Laker, I don't know if it's just me, but all that I see left of his defense is his reputation. I just really think he's way too high at 83. 78 would probably be more fitting of what's left of his game.

I reneged on putting a few players on my list, including

-Jason Richardson
-Chauncey Billups
-Michael Redd

Thought they should hold on to their ratings considering J-Rich was just really a bad fit for Orlando, how Billups comes back from his injury is still a question mark at this point, and Michael Redd got better as the season progressed.

I'm not claiming to be an authority on ratings, I just think that these players shouldn't be rated for what they used to be able to do.

[Ian Noble]

Good - I'm glad someone's posted a thread like this. I totally agree, Danny.

Most of these players should all take hits to their athleticism ratings, but as NBA Live 06 works they should also take hits to their skills ratings (points scored, for instance, really only sources from FG and 3PT shooting ratings as far as I can see).

78 Vince Carter - 10.1ppg, 3.4rpg, 2.3apg (25.3 minutes per game)
I would go as far as 78 and I would say that would be a conservative estimate for him.

80 Elton Brand - 11.0ppg, 7.2rpg, 1.6apg (28.9 mpg)
I would agree with an 80.

79 Jason Kidd - 6.2apg, 4.1rpg, 5.5apg (28.7 mpg)
I reckon Kidd will improve a bit next season with so much offensive talent in NYK to pass to, but that's only assists and it's an artificial inflation. I would go down to a 79 for now.

70 Mike Bibby -
He only registered 14.3 minutes per game for the Knicks last season. Field Goal Percentage a woeful 28%.

75 Gilbert Arenas
Totally agree with you Gil also. He used to be my favourite player, I always sympathise with him cos I think Stern kinda shit-canned him after the gun-in-the-locker incident, but he's been dire now for too long to ignore.

[Ian Noble]

78 Baron Davis
Personally I don't want to write him off even though he had that injury, but he shouldn't be an 80.

75 Rashard Lewis
He's really only useful for scoring and he only managed 7.8ppg on 28 minutes per game last season. Mr Casshard Lewis is now just a ring chaser on the Heat bandwagon. I'd drop him to a 75 personally.

80 Metta World Peace
I think Metta's one of the players for whom stats are not a factor. He's still impressive defensively, such that I would consider him an important factor in the Lakers star-studded lineup. Then again he shouldn't be 83.


There's a lot of other players in the league that could take a drop too, Amare Stoudemire (93?!), Marcus Camby (80), Tracy McGrady (80) and, dare I say it, Kevin Garnett (90 - altho he had an amazing playoffs).

[Danny Longley]

Baron Davis
- I wouldn't want to just get at him for an injury, but the pure severity along with his age would probably just result in more of the same of that clunker of a season if he doesn't retire altogether. I'd consider him to be 75-76. Again, 6 PPG, 5 APG, .370% FG, .306% 3P.

Tracy Mcgrady
-I was thinking he should have been rated the same as Vince, but I didn't realize how sparingly he played. I'd say he should be 76-77 just because his efficencies are pretty much the same

Kevin Garnett
- I'm thinking that he should be 84-86, maybe 87. Reflective of the reduced load he takes during the season.

Marcus Camby
-Despite age, Camby is still an above average center. Maybe a 77.

Amare Stoudemire
-86 for me, above average scorer - decent rebounder, No D.

I think Gil should be 77 though, because he posted decent per 36es. I'd say he's about a cut under Carter right now.

[Alex English]

I think there is a massive list of players that need decreases, most of them play for the Spurs lol. I think there is more of a problem of overrated players than underrated ones. Here is my take on the guys posted and I'll throw in a few more names.

Vince Carter: 85 > 77

Elton Brand: 84 > 79

Jason Kidd: 84 > 76

Mike Bibby: 78 > 70

Gilbert Arenas: 80 > 72

Baron Davis: 80 > 73

Rashard Lewis: 83 > 78

Ron Artest: 83 > 78

Chauncey Billups: 84 > 80

Micheal Redd: 80 > 76

Jason Richardson: 81 > 78

Tracy McGrady: 80 > 74

Marcus Camby: 80 > 75

Amare Stoudemire: 93 > 88

Kevin Garnett: 90 > 86



Also these guys:

Tim Duncan: The times are gone where he is a franchise guy I'd drop him from a 91 to like an 86, on par with Garnett

Ray Allen: He's no 84, he's basically only a spot up jump shooter now, an above average role player in my opinion, he should be like an 80

Kenyon Martin: It's unfortunate because he's been plagued by injuries but he isn't a 79, I'd say he should be around a 75

Richard Hamilton: I think he is barely a starter any more, he's an 82 but I think should be around a 78

Rodney Stuckey: I'm not sure how he got to an 82 in the first place, he is a combo guard that doesn't do anything particularly well, I'd put him around a 78 too

Lamar Odom: I'm guessing he will rebound a little bit from his time in Dallas but he is not an 85, I'd say around 80 for him

Carmelo Anthony: He's a 92, I think 90s should be reserved for franchise players who can carry a team, I think he's shown he isn't that, I'd drop him to 88-89

Kobe Bryant: At 98 you'd expect him to be dominant but those times are gone unfortunately, I'd say like a 92.

Guys I almost added:

Andre Iguodala - 88
Steve Nash - 86
Caron Butler - 81
JR Smith - 82

[Ian Noble]

Summarising (so far):


Rating - Name - (Opinions
98 Kobe Bryant (92, 92
93 Amare Stoudemire (88, 86, 86
92 Carmelo Anthony (89, 89
91 Tim Duncan (86, 86
90 Kevin Garnett (86, 87, 87
85 Vince Carter (77, 78, 80
85 Lamar Odom (80, 81
84 Chauncey Billups (80, 81
84 Elton Brand (79, 80, 80
84 Jason Kidd (76, 79
84 Ray Allen (80, 80
83 Rashard Lewis (78, 75, 79
83 Ron Artest (78, 80, 78
82 Rip Hamilton (78, 77
82 Rodney Stuckey (78
81 Jason Richardson (78
80 Gilbert Arenas (72, 75, 77
80 Baron Davis (73, 78, 76
80 Michael Redd (76
80 Tracy McGrady (74, 77
80 Marcus Camby (75, 77
79 Kenyon Martin (75
78 Mike Bibby (70, 70



My additional opinions with this post:
Kobe Bryant - the athleticism is dropping off a little but he's still a legend, 92.

Amare Stoudemire - never has played D, now he struggles a bit on offense. A conservative 86.

Carmelo Anthony - as you say, not a franchise player afterall, therefore not 90+ realistically. 89.

Tim Duncan - 86 because those fundamentals will last you til you're 80 years old when you're that tall.

Kevin Garnett - 87 because he switched it on in the playoffs and went back to being a 20/10 elite power forward. Also I'm biased, lol.

Lamar Odom - 81. He can still be a great player on a team but his off-court issues and general attitude may eventually lead to a bigger drop.

Chauncey Billups - 81. Inspirational leadership but declining with age.

Ray Allen - 80. He took a pay cut but you can't ignore $3m/yr contract.

Rip Hamilton - If Derrick Rose was overshadowing him in the backcourt you would've seen better stats from Rip in the playoffs, whilst DRose was out, but you didn't really. So with 12ppg/2.4rpg/3apg might as well drop him to a 77 imho.

I gotta go but that'll do for now.

[Magic Johnson]

6 point drop GTFOH, yes his atheleticism dropped but he still put up 27 5 4 last season.

Maybe a 95 but a 92 GTFOH with that BS.

and then you go ahead and say Garnett only deserves a 3 point drop to 87, talk about bias.

[Magic Johnson]

98 Kobe Bryant (92, 92) - DISAGREE BIG TIME, he still put up 27, 5, and 4.5 LAST SEASON, and you think he is gonna get WORSE after adding Nash and Howard to LAL.


93 Amare Stoudemire (88, 86, 86) - BULLSHIT, yeah not same player but 86 REALLY, more 88 then 86.


92 Carmelo Anthony (89, 89) BULLSHIT, franchise player deserves 91


91 Tim Duncan (86, 86) AGREED - but same as Garnett 87
90 Kevin Garnett (86, 87, 87) - AGREED 87 perfect
85 Vince Carter (77, 78, 80) - AGREED - 80 perfect
85 Lamar Odom (80, 81) AGREED - 82 for me
84 Chauncey Billups (80, 81) AGREED - BUT ONLY two points, 82
84 Elton Brand (79, 80, 80) AGREED - but 80 too high, 78
84 Jason Kidd (76, 79) - AGREED, but 76 too low, 79 maybe
84 Ray Allen (80, 80) - AGREED
83 Rashard Lewis (78, 75, 79) - AGREED maybe 77
83 Ron Artest (78, 80, 78) - AGREED sadly
82 Rip Hamilton (78, 77) - AGREED
82 Rodney Stuckey (78) - AGREED but 78 too low, 80 is perfect
81 Jason Richardson (78) - AGREED - 78 is perfect
80 Gilbert Arenas (72, 75, 77) AGREED - 75 is perfect
80 Baron Davis (73, 78, 76) - AGREED - 75 is perfect
80 Michael Redd (76) - AGREED, just one lower 75
80 Tracy McGrady (74, 77) - AGREED 74 too low 76 maybe
80 Marcus Camby (75, 77) - AGREED maybe 75
79 Kenyon Martin (75) - AGREED maybe 73
78 Mike Bibby (70, 70) - AGREED

[Andrei Kirilenko]

98 Kobe Bryant 88
93 Amare Stoudemire 90
92 Carmelo Anthony stays 92
91 Tim Duncan 82
90 Kevin Garnett 84
85 Vince Carter 79
85 Lamar Odom 78
84 Chauncey Billups 78
84 Elton Brand 80
84 Jason Kidd 77
84 Ray Allen 82
83 Rashard Lewis 74
83 Ron Artest 78
82 Rip Hamilton 80
82 Rodney Stuckey Don't really see how he fits on this list
81 Jason Richardson 78
80 Gilbert Arenas 74
80 Baron Davis 76
80 Michael Redd 75
80 Tracy McGrady 74
80 Marcus Camby 78
79 Kenyon Martin No change
78 Mike Bibby 72

[Otis Smith]

Aug 26, 2012 20:29:21 GMT Magic Johnson said:

6 point drop GTFOH, yes his atheleticism dropped but he still put up 27 5 4 last season.

Maybe a 95 but a 92 GTFOH with that BS.

and then you go ahead and say Garnett only deserves a 3 point drop to 87, talk about bias.

Using box score stats should never be a stand alone argument to determine a rating increase or decrease. For example Kobe's TS% was horrible this year (under 50%) and he had a huge usage rate which is one reason why he averaged 27 points.

Overall Kobe is still a great player but not a top 10 player anymore. He doesn't finish around the basket as well as he used to, he is not efficient from the three point line, and he is at best now a above-average defender. I think a 92 is fair you could argue 93 to 95 but anything over that is just looking at the past.

[Magic Johnson]

Aug 26, 2012 21:58:51 GMT Otis Smith said:

Aug 26, 2012 20:29:21 GMT Magic Johnson said:

6 point drop GTFOH, yes his atheleticism dropped but he still put up 27 5 4 last season.

Maybe a 95 but a 92 GTFOH with that BS.

and then you go ahead and say Garnett only deserves a 3 point drop to 87, talk about bias.

Using box score stats should never be a stand alone argument to determine a rating increase or decrease. For example Kobe's TS% was horrible this year (under 50%) and he had a huge usage rate which is one reason why he averaged 27 points.

Overall Kobe is still a great player but not a top 10 player anymore. He doesn't finish around the basket as well as he used to, he is not efficient from the three point line, and he is at best now a above-average defender. I think a 92 is fair you could argue 93 to 95 but anything over that is just looking at the past.

KB always had high usage rate DUE TO LAL NEVER GETTING A PROPER PG to take away the ball handling responsibilities away from him UNTIL THIS YEAR (que Steve Nash)

Kobe's 3 pt shooting is the only thing I agree with but guys like Stephen Jackson, Jamal Crawford, Monta Ellis, Ray Felton, Rudy Gay, D. Rose (before injury), and K. Walker shot similar percentage to him which is 30-31 percent from 3 point land.

Also the true shooting percentage is also flawed

Tyson Chandler has a .708 TS, yet only takes 5 shots a game skewing his stats.

ANOTHER THING

KB's TS THIS YEAR was .527

you know another player that shoots a lot and has high turnover rates

Russell Westbrook - .538 TS

M. Ellis is another guy that shoots a lot and has a TS of .509, which is lower then KB's despite KB shooting 43 percent from the field.

insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/sg/sort/trueShootingPct

We know KB can't finish like he used to in the basket that's why he's more of a post based player/jump shooter to compensate for the loss of his athleticism.

LAST but not least he is now playing with Nash and Howard which will make the burden on him being number one scorer on team much easier and allow him to operate more efficiently where he can play more off the dribble and play as a cutter to the basket.

KB not TOP 10 PLAYER really really really, just stop don't have to say anything else about him, ask most credible experts and see if they agree with you about him not being a TOP 10 player.

[Deleted]

Vince Carter: 85 > 77

Elton Brand: 84 > 79

Jason Kidd: 84 > 76

Mike Bibby: 78 > 70

Gilbert Arenas: 80 > 70

Baron Davis: 80 > 73

Rashard Lewis: 83 > 78

Ron Artest: 83 > 80

Chauncey Billups: 84 > 80

Micheal Redd: 80 > 76

Jason Richardson: 81 > 78

Tracy McGrady: 80 > 74

Marcus Camby: 80 > 75

Amare Stoudemire: 93 > 90

Kevin Garnett: 90 > 90 - KG played so well in the playoffs I don't think he should go down.

Mamba 98 > 83

[Alex English]

Magic I don't understand how making the comparisons you're making is a case to keep Kobe at a 95 or higher. Apart from Derrick Rose all those guys you named have ratings in the mid/low 80s and some in the high 70s. Where is the logical leap from that to "therefore Kobe still deserves a rating in the high 90s?"

If some random guy averaged 27, 5 and 4 last season there is about a zero percent chance you would argue that he deserves a 90+ rating. Especially since he achieved those numbers inefficiently. He's just not the same player anymore.

[JP Inawat]

98 Kobe Bryant - 94
93 Amare Stoudemire - 88
92 Carmelo Anthony - 90
91 Tim Duncan - 88
90 Kevin Garnett - 88
85 Vince Carter - 80
85 Lamar Odom - 76
84 Chauncey Billups - 80
84 Elton Brand - 79
84 Jason Kidd - 78
84 Ray Allen - 79
83 Rashard Lewis - 78
83 Ron Artest - 78
82 Rip Hamilton - 79
82 Rodney Stuckey - Utah: "Don't really see how he fits on this list" Me neither...
81 Jason Richardson - 78
80 Gilbert Arenas - 75
80 Baron Davis - 75
80 Michael Redd - 77
80 Tracy McGrady - 76
80 Marcus Camby - 77
79 Kenyon Martin - 76
78 Mike Bibby - 70
62 Brian Scalabrine - 99+ (I'm kidding, of course. XD)

I think not only these guys are overrated. I personally think we should use NBA 2K's rating system (lowest ones are at 30s-40s) to really differentiate the really great players from the good ones, the average ones and the bad ones, but that would probably require a lot of work and discussion. Also, I'm not sure how lowering a lot of players ratings would translate to how NBA Live 06 sims things. It may result in very low-scoring games. But I think that would be the best way to go.

[Danny Longley]

I was looking to isolate the older guys, but glad to see it escalated.
Here's my list, including those that I brought up earlier.

98 Kobe Bryant - 94
93 Amare Stoudemire - 86
92 Carmelo Anthony - 88
91 Tim Duncan - 87
90 Kevin Garnett - 86
85 Vince Carter - 78
85 Lamar Odom - 76
84 Chauncey Billups - 82
84 Elton Brand - 80
84 Jason Kidd - 78
84 Ray Allen - 79
83 Rashard Lewis - 78
83 Ron Artest - 78
82 Rip Hamilton - 78
82 Rodney Stuckey - Should stick, still pretty solid numbers even with the slight drop in minutes
81 Jason Richardson - 79
80 Gilbert Arenas - 77
80 Baron Davis - 75
80 Michael Redd - 77
80 Tracy McGrady - 76
80 Marcus Camby - 77
79 Kenyon Martin - 76
78 Mike Bibby - 70

Carmelo
-For Carmelo, I still see him as 1. not 1D, 1 because he has no D. Still, one of the best scorers, has a lot of tricks, just shouldn't be above 90.

Odom
-Because he should go and die in a fire.

[Magic Johnson]

Aug 26, 2012 23:54:54 GMT Alex English said:

Magic I don't understand how making the comparisons you're making is a case to keep Kobe at a 95 or higher. Apart from Derrick Rose all those guys you named have ratings in the mid/low 80s and some in the high 70s. Where is the logical leap from that to "therefore Kobe still deserves a rating in the high 90s?"

If some random guy averaged 27, 5 and 4 last season there is about a zero percent chance you would argue that he deserves a 90+ rating. Especially since he achieved those numbers inefficiently. He's just not the same player anymore.

Russell Westbrook low ranked player, WHO KNEW.

Westbrook and Melo both shot 43 percent same as KB and also took a lot of shots (19.2 and 18.6), Westbrook had higher turnover ratio then anyone else, so should his rating be decreased 10 points just on that comparison.

How about Deron Williams only shot 40 percent from the field and in prime of career maybe John Wall who shot only 42 percent from the field.

[Alex English]

I don't see this going anywhere, you're as bias as it gets in this situation so I'm just going to agree to disagree right now.


Also this:

Aug 27, 2012 4:33:39 GMT Magic Johnson said:

Westbrook had higher turnover ratio then anyone else

You've actually said that Westbrook had the best turnover ratio in the league here.

[Allen Iverson]

98 Kobe Bryant 94
93 Amare Stoudemire 87
92 Carmelo Anthony 89
91 Tim Duncan 86
90 Kevin Garnett 87
85 Vince Carter 77
85 Lamar Odom 78
84 Chauncey Billups 78
84 Elton Brand 79
84 Jason Kidd 77
84 Ray Allen 80
83 Rashard Lewis 76
83 Ron Artest 78
82 Rip Hamilton 77
82 Rodney Stuckey 82
81 Jason Richardson 78
80 Gilbert Arenas 75
80 Baron Davis 75
80 Michael Redd 76
80 Tracy McGrady 74
80 Marcus Camby 77
79 Kenyon Martin 76
78 Mike Bibby 70

[Otis Smith]

Aug 26, 2012 22:45:10 GMT Magic Johnson said:

KB always had high usage rate DUE TO LAL NEVER GETTING A PROPER PG to take away the ball handling responsibilities away from him UNTIL THIS YEAR (que Steve Nash)

Kobe's 3 pt shooting is the only thing I agree with but guys like Stephen Jackson, Jamal Crawford, Monta Ellis, Ray Felton, Rudy Gay, D. Rose (before injury), and K. Walker shot similar percentage to him which is 30-31 percent from 3 point land.

Also the true shooting percentage is also flawed

Tyson Chandler has a .708 TS, yet only takes 5 shots a game skewing his stats.

ANOTHER THING

KB's TS THIS YEAR was .527

you know another player that shoots a lot and has high turnover rates

Russell Westbrook - .538 TS

M. Ellis is another guy that shoots a lot and has a TS of .509, which is lower then KB's despite KB shooting 43 percent from the field.

insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/sg/sort/trueShootingPct

We know KB can't finish like he used to in the basket that's why he's more of a post based player/jump shooter to compensate for the loss of his athleticism.

LAST but not least he is now playing with Nash and Howard which will make the burden on him being number one scorer on team much easier and allow him to operate more efficiently where he can play more off the dribble and play as a cutter to the basket.

KB not TOP 10 PLAYER really really really, just stop don't have to say anything else about him, ask most credible experts and see if they agree with you about him not being a TOP 10 player.

You are correct about Kobe's TS% I mixed his TS% with another guard, but IMO kobe is not a top 10 player anymore. First, Kobe now has a growing % of his points coming from the most inefficient shot in basketball, long two pointers, that in itself a warning sign to his decline. While Kobe is a lot times unfairly labeled a me-first ball-hog he is still not a player who can play-make for his teammates. He has always had a low AST% compared to his historically large usage rate but in the past this didn't matter since Kobe was a once in a generation type of scorer and a excellent man/team defender. Adding to him playing in the triangle for so long hid is weakness playing off-the ball (not a great spot up shooter) and play-maker on the wing.

Well its well documented that Kobe's bad knees has limited his explosiveness and athleticism, but it also has limited his ability to rise on his jumpshot which makes his aleady flat shot even more flat. This is bad for a spot shooter (which Kobe might become with the additions of Nash and Howard) since having a flat shot mostly aides in ISO and pull-up jumpshots not in a shot where arc is more important. Kobe also isn't as impactful on the defence side as he once was and at times is a below-average defender (having Howard clean up any messes should help).

Kobe is a still a great scorer who has an insane amount of ISO and post moves that rival most hall-fame bigs but every time he gets older it gets harder for him to score, which is his only elite skill anymore. The reason he isn't a top 10 player anymore is because he only has one truly elite skill (scoring) and doesn't do that much else past a above-average level.



Thats why a 93 or 94 would be fair IMO.

*Although one thing overlooked about Kobe is the double-teams he is able to command.

[Ian Noble]

Updated list:
98 Kobe Bryant (92, 92, 95, 88, 83, 94, 94, 94
93 Amare Stoudemire (88, 86, 86, 88, 90, 90, 88, 86, 87
92 Carmelo Anthony (89, 89, 91, 92, 90, 88, 89
91 Tim Duncan (86, 86, 87, 82, 88, 87, 86
90 Kevin Garnett (86, 87, 87, 87, 84, 90, 88, 86, 87
85 Vince Carter (77, 78, 80, 80, 79, 77, 80, 77
85 Lamar Odom (80, 81, 82, 78, 76, 78
84 Chauncey Billups (80, 81, 82, 78, 80, 78
84 Elton Brand (79, 80, 80, 78, 80, 79, 79, 79
84 Jason Kidd (76, 79, 79, 77, 76, 78, 77
84 Ray Allen (80, 80, 80, 82, 79, 82, 80
83 Rashard Lewis (78, 75, 79, 77, 74, 78, 78, 76
83 Ron Artest (78, 80, 78, 78, 78, 80, 78, 78
82 Rip Hamilton (78, 77, 77, 80, 79, 77
82 Rodney Stuckey (78, 80, 82, 82, 82
81 Jason Richardson (78, 78, 78, 78, 78, 78
80 Gilbert Arenas (72, 75, 77, 75, 74, 70, 75, 75
80 Baron Davis (73, 78, 76, 75, 76, 73, 75, 75
80 Michael Redd (76, 75, 75, 76, 77, 76
80 Tracy McGrady (74, 77, 76, 74, 76, 74
80 Marcus Camby (75, 77, 75, 78, 75, 77, 77
79 Kenyon Martin (75, 73, 79, 76, 76
78 Mike Bibby (70, 70, 70, 72, 70, 70, 70


I think the way I'm going to do this is to do it like the Olympic Diving Judging, by excluding the top 2 and bottom 2 rated opinions for each player and averaging the remaining ratings.

So for instance, Kobe Bryant:
98 Kobe Bryant (92, 92, 95, 88, 83, 94, 94, 94

1. Remove the 2 highest and lowest scores leaves:
98 Kobe Bryant (92, 92, 94, 94

Average: 93

[Ian Noble]

Final rating at the end of each line:

Updated list:
98 Kobe Bryant (92, 92, 94, 94) - 93
93 Amare Stoudemire (88, 88, 88, 86, 87) - 87
92 Carmelo Anthony (89, 89, 90) - 89
91 Tim Duncan (86, 86, 87) - 86
90 Kevin Garnett (86, 87, 87, 87, 87) - 87
85 Vince Carter (78, 79, 80, 77) - 79
85 Lamar Odom (80, 78) - 79
84 Chauncey Billups (80, 80) - 80
84 Elton Brand (80, 79, 79, 79) - 79
84 Jason Kidd (77, 78, 77) - 77
84 Ray Allen (80, 80, 80) - 80
83 Rashard Lewis (77, 78, 78, 76) - 77
83 Ron Artest (78, 78, 78, 78) - 78
82 Rip Hamilton (78, 77) - 78
82 Rodney Stuckey (82, ) - 82
81 Jason Richardson (78, 78, 78, 78, 78, 78) - 78
80 Gilbert Arenas (75, 74, 75, 75) - 75
80 Baron Davis (75, 76, 75, 75) - 75
80 Michael Redd (76, 76) - 76
80 Tracy McGrady (76, 74) - 75
80 Marcus Camby (75, 77, 77) - 76
79 Kenyon Martin (76) - 76
78 Mike Bibby (70, 70, 70, 72, 70, 70, 70) - 70

[Deleted]

98 Kobe Bryant 95
93 Amare Stoudemire 85
92 Carmelo Anthony 85
91 Tim Duncan 86
90 Kevin Garnett 86
85 Vince Carter 80
85 Lamar Odom 75
84 Chauncey Billups 82
84 Elton Brand 81
84 Jason Kidd 82
84 Ray Allen 82
83 Rashard Lewis 76
83 Ron Artest 80
82 Rip Hamilton 76
82 Rodney Stuckey 80
81 Jason Richardson 78
80 Gilbert Arenas 78
80 Baron Davis 77
80 Michael Redd 77
80 Tracy McGrady 77
80 Marcus Camby 76
79 Kenyon Martin 77
78 Mike Bibby 74

[Mike Krzyzewski]

98 Kobe Bryant 93
93 Amare Stoudemire 87
92 Carmelo Anthony 89
91 Tim Duncan 88
90 Kevin Garnett 87
85 Vince Carter 77
85 Lamar Odom 79
84 Chauncey Billups 80
84 Elton Brand 80
84 Jason Kidd 79
84 Ray Allen 80
83 Rashard Lewis 75
83 Ron Artest 78
82 Rip Hamilton 77

81 Jason Richardson 77
80 Gilbert Arenas 74
80 Baron Davis 78
80 Michael Redd 75
80 Tracy McGrady 74
80 Marcus Camby 77
79 Kenyon Martin 75
78 Mike Bibby 70

[Deleted]

After this season and the ratings we decide on, I feel we as a league should vote on player increases and decreases by how our players play in the game... Not real life.

[Ian Noble]

Disagree! The whole point is that you base it on real-life performance.

Also basing player-ratings on in-game performance is like a catch 22 - they will only perform better if we give them higher ratings in the first place. Or if someone like Steve Nash goes to the Grizzlies and, as the only legit scoring option, drains 51 points - do we bump him up to a 95?

[Danny Longley]

Anyway, a few guys i'd like to add into the discussion since this thread has pretty much turned into a catch-all for decreases.

Ronnie Price
-He's a 76 for absolutely no reason that I can fathom. He's 29 and averaging 4 PPG, 1.5 APG for his career with under .400% FG. What even.

Troy Murphy
-Clunker of a season with LA, should be 73 IMO, hasn't had a good season since leaving Indiana, averaging under 4ppg with New Jersey, Boston and LA.

Chris Andersen
- still one of my favorite hustle guys , got screwed over by those allegations, but just really not that good anymore. 74-75?

Ben Wallace
- since we hit a few old bigs with decreases, Big Ben shouldn't be saved. 73?

Tyrus Thomas
- terrible efficiencies and defense. failed to crack the BOBCATS starting lineup. just seemed to stop caring. 72?

Mike Miller
- Awesome Finals, but that was about it. Even considered retiring mid-way, probably should be 76 right now.

[Alex English]

Aug 27, 2012 10:20:42 GMT Ian Noble said:

Final rating at the end of each line:

Updated list:
98 Kobe Bryant (92, 92, 94, 94) - 93
93 Amare Stoudemire (88, 88, 88, 86, 87) - 87
92 Carmelo Anthony (89, 89, 90) - 89
91 Tim Duncan (86, 86, 87) - 86
90 Kevin Garnett (86, 87, 87, 87, 87) - 87
85 Vince Carter (78, 79, 80, 77) - 79
85 Lamar Odom (80, 78) - 79
84 Chauncey Billups (80, 80) - 80
84 Elton Brand (80, 79, 79, 79) - 79
84 Jason Kidd (77, 78, 77) - 77
84 Ray Allen (80, 80, 80) - 80
83 Rashard Lewis (77, 78, 78, 76) - 77
83 Ron Artest (78, 78, 78, 78) - 78
82 Rip Hamilton (78, 77) - 78
82 Rodney Stuckey (82, ) - 82
81 Jason Richardson (78, 78, 78, 78, 78, 78) - 78
80 Gilbert Arenas (75, 74, 75, 75) - 75
80 Baron Davis (75, 76, 75, 75) - 75
80 Michael Redd (76, 76) - 76
80 Tracy McGrady (76, 74) - 75
80 Marcus Camby (75, 77, 77) - 76
79 Kenyon Martin (76) - 76
78 Mike Bibby (70, 70, 70, 72, 70, 70, 70) - 70

I think this is a good final list.

[Magic Johnson]

Aug 27, 2012 17:37:17 GMT Alex English said:

Aug 27, 2012 10:20:42 GMT Ian Noble said:

Final rating at the end of each line:

Updated list:
98 Kobe Bryant (92, 92, 94, 94) - 93
93 Amare Stoudemire (88, 88, 88, 86, 87) - 87
92 Carmelo Anthony (89, 89, 90) - 89
91 Tim Duncan (86, 86, 87) - 86
90 Kevin Garnett (86, 87, 87, 87, 87) - 87
85 Vince Carter (78, 79, 80, 77) - 79
85 Lamar Odom (80, 78) - 79
84 Chauncey Billups (80, 80) - 80
84 Elton Brand (80, 79, 79, 79) - 79
84 Jason Kidd (77, 78, 77) - 77
84 Ray Allen (80, 80, 80) - 80
83 Rashard Lewis (77, 78, 78, 76) - 77
83 Ron Artest (78, 78, 78, 78) - 78
82 Rip Hamilton (78, 77) - 78
82 Rodney Stuckey (82, ) - 82
81 Jason Richardson (78, 78, 78, 78, 78, 78) - 78
80 Gilbert Arenas (75, 74, 75, 75) - 75
80 Baron Davis (75, 76, 75, 75) - 75
80 Michael Redd (76, 76) - 76
80 Tracy McGrady (76, 74) - 75
80 Marcus Camby (75, 77, 77) - 76
79 Kenyon Martin (76) - 76
78 Mike Bibby (70, 70, 70, 72, 70, 70, 70) - 70

I think this is a good final list.

no Carlos Boozer though, Paul Pierce could be argued, but I'll leave that one alone.

But Boozer

85 rated only avg 15 points and 8 boards for a guy making 16 million.

[Walt Frazier]

Aug 27, 2012 16:05:42 GMT Ian Noble said:

Disagree! The whole point is that you base it on real-life performance.

Yea honestly, if we didn't do ratings this way, I'd leave the league.

Doesn't make any sense otherwise.

[thegame]

I agree with mose, however with Kobe I still think he should be a 94+ the man is still a top three player in the game look what he did last year. Also no way Melo should be anything less than 90 something, despise his flaws the man can play. When he comes to play he is just as good as any player in the game.