Larry Bird
Indiana Pacers
Starter
Posts: 1,672
Mar 5, 2024 13:29:26 GMT
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Post by Larry Bird on Dec 27, 2016 13:26:52 GMT
Denver Trades: 74 Lance Stephenson $9,854,231 69 Alex Abrines $562,800 $725,000 $888,400 Nikola Pekovic $11,306,814 $21,723,845
Denver Receives: 83 Deron Williams $22,331,135 $23,894,320 1st 2017 Portland $22,331,135
Indiana Trades: 83 Deron Williams $22,331,135 $23,894,320 1st 2017 Portland 2nd 2019 Indiana 2nd 2019 LA Clippers $22,331,135
Indiana Receives: 76 John Henson $3,445,098 74 Lance Stephenson $9,854,231 69 Alex Abrines $562,800 $725,000 $888,400 Nikola Pekovic $11,306,814 Kendall Marshall $2,667,893 $27,836,836
Utah Trades: 76 John Henson $3,445,098 Kendall Marshall $2,667,893 $6,112,991
Utah Receives: 2nd 2019 Indiana 2nd 2019 LA Clippers $0
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Kevin Hollis
Former Thunder GM for 7 years
All Star
Posts: 2,838
Dec 16, 2022 11:27:40 GMT
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Post by Kevin Hollis on Dec 27, 2016 14:39:24 GMT
Larry, you are literally receiving nothing. This is a really bad trade for Larry.
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Spike Lee
Former Knicks GM
Sophomore
Posts: 366
Sept 15, 2018 22:53:48 GMT
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Post by Spike Lee on Dec 27, 2016 14:40:08 GMT
lol wtf is this
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Post by Ian Noble on Dec 27, 2016 15:17:29 GMT
Indiana gets taken out behind some sheds and brutally slapped with a haddock in this deal.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Dec 27, 2016 15:59:46 GMT
Reject.
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Post by Danny Longley on Dec 27, 2016 16:03:08 GMT
To be fair, that's 23m of cap that Larry clears and Deron could probably use a knock, if only a minor one. Not a snap reject to me, would like to see some rationale.
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Larry Bird
Indiana Pacers
Starter
Posts: 1,672
Mar 5, 2024 13:29:26 GMT
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Post by Larry Bird on Dec 27, 2016 16:21:08 GMT
Deron has not been playing up to his $23 mil contract.
He is only averaging 12 ppg. I know Indiana is not currently a free agent destination, but I feel I could do more with that $23mil than 12 ppg. I also get Henson who I feel could start beside Jefferson or I could use him as my first big off the bench and use Gallinari as a stretch 4. Stephenson could be a good defensive big off the bench. Pekovic, Marshall, and Stephenson could all be useful toward the trade deadline as well.
Alex Abrines is on a great contract. He played well for the Spanish National team, given time I think could develop for the Thunder.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Dec 27, 2016 16:27:21 GMT
The pieces Larry gets are not good enough to warrant the picks he's giving along with Deron. I am assuming Deron is viewed as a complete negative here or else no one would have agreed to it. I think that's hasty.
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Post by Charles Barkley on Dec 27, 2016 17:44:26 GMT
Ya'll need to stop doing this to Larry.
Larry, you're giving up that POR first for no reason.
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Dec 27, 2016 19:18:10 GMT
Alex destroys in another trade.
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Dec 27, 2016 19:19:41 GMT
Larry I would have done this same trade with you for that pick AND still taken Deron but you would have gotten real players for it. Just for some perspective.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Apr 18, 2024 20:21:47 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2016 19:52:27 GMT
I forgot that Henson is expiring bad advice on my part for Larry but Im still high on him.Still, with a good rationale this shouldnt be a quick reject or at least Deron shouldnt be the reason this trade gets rejected aince Larry clears cap and why wouldnt Henson resign with Indiana? Have faith that Larry knows what he's doing! With a few minor tweaks this trade should be passable.
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Dec 27, 2016 20:38:16 GMT
I forgot that Henson is expiring bad advice on my part for Larry but Im still high on him.Still, with a good rationale this shouldnt be a quick reject or at least Deron shouldnt be the reason this trade gets rejected aince Larry clears cap and why wouldnt Henson resign with Indiana? Have faith that Larry knows what he's doing! With a few minor tweaks this trade should be passable. Why would anyone resign with Indiana? He goes through a roster's worth of traded players every season. Build a stock of young guys through the draft. Stop letting Alex and other GMs take advantage of your team.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Apr 18, 2024 20:21:47 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2016 20:45:56 GMT
I forgot that Henson is expiring bad advice on my part for Larry but Im still high on him.Still, with a good rationale this shouldnt be a quick reject or at least Deron shouldnt be the reason this trade gets rejected aince Larry clears cap and why wouldnt Henson resign with Indiana? Have faith that Larry knows what he's doing! With a few minor tweaks this trade should be passable. Why would anyone resign with Indiana? He goes through a roster's worth of traded players every season. Build a stock of young guys through the draft. Stop letting Alex and other GMs take advantage of your team. This isnt't trade rape at all compared to my mate in D720 Doc Rivers.I take partial blame for this as i didnt do my research before giving bad advice and i let my passion for the bucks blind me
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Post by Alex English on Dec 28, 2016 0:33:51 GMT
Raise your hands if you want to pay Deron Williams $24 million next year. No one?
I obviously wouldn't just take that terrible contract for nothing, I need something out of the deal. Portland's 1st is going to be in the mid/late 20s, it's not really worth that much. Since I also give up a rookie in Abrines, I don't see how this is me robbing the Pacers. Larry is going to take that huge amount of money and do something more productive with it in the offseason.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Apr 18, 2024 20:21:47 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2016 1:17:19 GMT
I do not accept this, for Larry's sake.
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Post by Charles Barkley on Dec 28, 2016 5:24:17 GMT
I forgot that Henson is expiring bad advice on my part for Larry but Im still high on him.Still, with a good rationale this shouldnt be a quick reject or at least Deron shouldnt be the reason this trade gets rejected aince Larry clears cap and why wouldnt Henson resign with Indiana? Have faith that Larry knows what he's doing! With a few minor tweaks this trade should be passable. That spot on the bench right there? Keep sittin in it.
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Post by Charles Barkley on Dec 28, 2016 5:25:59 GMT
Raise your hands if you want to pay Deron Williams $24 million next year. No one? I obviously wouldn't just take that terrible contract for nothing, I need something out of the deal. Portland's 1st is going to be in the mid/late 20s, it's not really worth that much. Since I also give up a rookie in Abrines, I don't see how this is me robbing the Pacers. Larry is going to take that huge amount of money and do something more productive with it in the offseason. Grasping at straws here, Alex. There should be no reason he consents to this trade, its awful.
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Dec 28, 2016 10:19:25 GMT
Raise your hands if you want to pay Deron Williams $24 million next year. No one? I obviously wouldn't just take that terrible contract for nothing, I need something out of the deal. Portland's 1st is going to be in the mid/late 20s, it's not really worth that much. Since I also give up a rookie in Abrines, I don't see how this is me robbing the Pacers. Larry is going to take that huge amount of money and do something more productive with it in the offseason. For a pick in this draft? I raised my hand earlier. That contract is over after next year. Whats really happening is you trading 2 trash players for an albeit overpayed 78-79. But because you are so far over the cap that 20 mil means nothing to you. And then you somehow get a free 1st rounder for 0 reason. Maybe you get a 2nd or 2 to pay for that contract but damn dude. You send nothing, get a great role player and a pick. What you gave up is trash.
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Post by Ian Noble on Dec 28, 2016 13:06:49 GMT
I accept but it's a weird trade.
Indiana has a team with a core of declining vets that could take them to the second round in the East this year or something. If you're going to move in the other direction you hang onto what picks you've got. The thing is, I'm afraid to say Mr Bird, there's never been a continuous long term strategy for Indiana, just a barrage of trades and then some wild hopes in summer free agency every year whilst the rest of the league profits and you pick up the leftover scraps. You need a long term strategy and to stick with it, but since there's never been a strategy I guess I accept.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Apr 18, 2024 20:21:47 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2016 13:45:49 GMT
I accept but it's a weird trade. Indiana has a team with a core of declining vets that could take them to the second round in the East this year or something. If you're going to move in the other direction you hang onto what picks you've got. The thing is, I'm afraid to say Mr Bird, there's never been a continuous long term strategy for Indiana, just a barrage of trades and then some wild hopes in summer free agency every year whilst the rest of the league profits and you pick up the leftover scraps. You need a long term strategy and to stick with it, but since there's never been a strategy I guess I accept. I didn't accept this deal.
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Larry Bird
Indiana Pacers
Starter
Posts: 1,672
Mar 5, 2024 13:29:26 GMT
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Post by Larry Bird on Dec 28, 2016 14:10:40 GMT
Without Billy's acceptance, this can't go through. He's a part of the actual trade, not a trade committee member.
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Post by Ian Noble on Dec 28, 2016 14:42:32 GMT
I accept but it's a weird trade. Indiana has a team with a core of declining vets that could take them to the second round in the East this year or something. If you're going to move in the other direction you hang onto what picks you've got. The thing is, I'm afraid to say Mr Bird, there's never been a continuous long term strategy for Indiana, just a barrage of trades and then some wild hopes in summer free agency every year whilst the rest of the league profits and you pick up the leftover scraps. You need a long term strategy and to stick with it, but since there's never been a strategy I guess I accept. I didn't accept this deal. Oh ok, that sorts that out then
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Post by Alex English on Dec 28, 2016 20:42:04 GMT
For a pick in this draft? Yes, exactly, for a pick in this draft I will take on Deron Williams' terrible contract and Indiana frees up $23 million in cap space. I'd never trade for Williams alone, he's 32 years old, absurdly overpaid, and closer to retirement than any kind of resurgence in play. He's been straight up terrible for 3 years. He has no value on his own. Am I crazy or are my trades judged differently from everyone else's? This is a simple salary dump to me, but everyone seems to get so sensitive about my trades and my reputation for consistently robbing other teams, that I appear to have a tighter leash than the rest of you. Here is the 36th pick going in a $5.5 million salary dumpHere is the 16th pick going in a $40 million salary dump. This is where Larry acquired Deron in the first place. No one seemed to have any qualms about DWill being a salary dump when this happened. Here is a $17 million salary dump netting a future 1st and 2nd. This trade seems quite dangerous to be honest, as was said in the thread. No doubt it's way worse than what's happening here. We also have Billy King holding my point of view, yet now he's playing the saviour and rejecting this deal to protect Larry? Here is what became a $24 million salary dump getting a 1st and 2nd round pick. This is same 1st rounder I'm trying to acquire now, being treated with about equal value to how I'm treating it here. This Portland 1st isn't a future pick with some unknown value. It's for the upcoming draft, and we know the Blazers are a very good team. It's almost certainly going to be a pick in the mid 20s, which means it isn't some super valuable future asset. Most guys picked in that range never become anything more than role players. So many of my trades seem to draw so much disapproval and I just can't understand it with this one. So what gives?
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Apr 18, 2024 20:21:47 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2016 20:54:53 GMT
For a pick in this draft? Yes, exactly, for a pick in this draft I will take on Deron Williams' terrible contract and Indiana frees up $23 million in cap space. I'd never trade for Williams alone, he's 32 years old, absurdly overpaid, and closer to retirement than any kind of resurgence in play. He's been straight up terrible for 3 years. He has no value on his own. Am I crazy or are my trades judged differently from everyone else's? This is a simple salary dump to me, but everyone seems to get so sensitive about my trades and my reputation for consistently robbing other teams, that I appear to have a tighter leash than the rest of you. Here is the 36th pick going in a $5.5 million salary dumpHere is the 16th pick going in a $40 million salary dump. This is where Larry acquired Deron in the first place. No one seemed to have any qualms about DWill being a salary dump when this happened. Here is a $17 million salary dump netting a future 1st and 2nd. This trade seems quite dangerous to be honest, as was said in the thread. No doubt it's way worse than what's happening here. We also have Billy King holding my point of view, yet now he's playing the saviour and rejecting this deal to protect Larry? Here is what became a $24 million salary dump getting a 1st and 2nd round pick. This is same 1st rounder I'm trying to acquire now, being treated with about equal value to how I'm treating it here. This Portland 1st isn't a future pick with some unknown value. It's for the upcoming draft, and we know the Blazers are a very good team. It's almost certainly going to be a pick in the mid 20s, which means it isn't some super valuable future asset. Most guys picked in that range never become anything more than role players. So many of my trades seem to draw so much disapproval and I just can't understand it with this one. So what gives? Unfortunately Alex, it's not all about you. In this case, as is usual when trades like this get rejected, it's not about punishing the team that is winning the trade, as it is about saving the team that is losing the trade. Especially when the team is fucking horrible.
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Post by Alex English on Dec 28, 2016 21:16:06 GMT
Unfortunately Alex, it's not all about you.
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Dec 29, 2016 0:21:48 GMT
For a pick in this draft? Yes, exactly, for a pick in this draft I will take on Deron Williams' terrible contract and Indiana frees up $23 million in cap space. I'd never trade for Williams alone, he's 32 years old, absurdly overpaid, and closer to retirement than any kind of resurgence in play. He's been straight up terrible for 3 years. He has no value on his own. Am I crazy or are my trades judged differently from everyone else's? This is a simple salary dump to me, but everyone seems to get so sensitive about my trades and my reputation for consistently robbing other teams, that I appear to have a tighter leash than the rest of you. Here is the 36th pick going in a $5.5 million salary dumpHere is the 16th pick going in a $40 million salary dump. This is where Larry acquired Deron in the first place. No one seemed to have any qualms about DWill being a salary dump when this happened. Here is a $17 million salary dump netting a future 1st and 2nd. This trade seems quite dangerous to be honest, as was said in the thread. No doubt it's way worse than what's happening here. We also have Billy King holding my point of view, yet now he's playing the saviour and rejecting this deal to protect Larry? Here is what became a $24 million salary dump getting a 1st and 2nd round pick. This is same 1st rounder I'm trying to acquire now, being treated with about equal value to how I'm treating it here.
This Portland 1st isn't a future pick with some unknown value. It's for the upcoming draft, and we know the Blazers are a very good team. It's almost certainly going to be a pick in the mid 20s, which means it isn't some super valuable future asset. Most guys picked in that range never become anything more than role players. So many of my trades seem to draw so much disapproval and I just can't understand it with this one. So what gives? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- First off, half of these trades involve Indiana which I find to be hilarious. One trade is Billy taking advantage of a new GM and everyone just being OK with it for some reason. Letting a bad team give away any firsts for nothing is about ridiculous. My response on the trade where Indiana got the Portland pick: "As long as Larry resolves himself to not trade his 2017 pick I fully support this trade. For Indy: Worst case Duncan opts out due to retirement and Larry just cleared cap for basically free. Pros: For a guy who's traded away a ton of draft picks he did a good job of making sure he has the next three season's firsts available. His team is ripe for a quality rebuild. Next years draft is fucking stacked. If we got to draft the 2017 class this year Simmons probably goes 6. So he could really benefit from potentially acquiring a quality superstar potential prospect. Cons: He just gave away two good players purely potential. Hey, shit happens. It's a risk you take I did it, and so have most GMs. For Portland: Pros: He's in the midst of a fiercely trying to reacquire his non-bird rights player in Kyrie. Well this team just got better. He trades a potential nothing for something of substance. Cons: Gives up some future assets and a franchise staple for a while. Good trade at the right time for both teams. " And what does he do. He goes and trades his assets for a fringe pospect and two underwhelming one year rentals. One who will be out of the league and one who hasn't developed like everyone thought and isn't even starting. And once again adds to your long running abuse of the cap system. What happened to the time limit to get under a certain amount Ian Noble ?
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Post by Alex English on Dec 29, 2016 1:24:58 GMT
And once again adds to your long running abuse of the cap system. What happened to the time limit to get under a certain amount Ian Noble ? My abuse lol? I still have to operate within the rules. I can't make trades outside of the 125% rule, and I need trade partners who believe they're benefiting their team too. You also do the exact same thing from the other end (and Billy even moreso). My cap is irrelevant to me because I'm so far over, yours is irrelevant to you because you're so far under. We're both willing to take albatross contracts off of other teams as a way to try and improve our team. Was your signing of Brendan Haywood to $10 mil per year "abuse" of the cap system? You purposely overpaid for a guy so he could be a trade chip in cap related trades. Also the hard cap is already happening. The huge cap jump messed it up though. Had the cap stayed level, I'd currently be over the hard cap. It will even out again in the long run.
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Kevin Hollis
Former Thunder GM for 7 years
All Star
Posts: 2,838
Dec 16, 2022 11:27:40 GMT
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Post by Kevin Hollis on Dec 29, 2016 1:49:30 GMT
And once again adds to your long running abuse of the cap system. What happened to the time limit to get under a certain amount Ian Noble ? My abuse lol? I still have to operate within the rules. I can't make trades outside of the 125% rule, and I need trade partners who believe they're benefiting their team too. You also do the exact same thing from the other end (and Billy even moreso). My cap is irrelevant to me because I'm so far over, yours is irrelevant to you because you're so far under. We're both willing to take albatross contracts off of other teams as a way to try and improve our team. Was your signing of Brendan Haywood to $10 mil per year "abuse" of the cap system? You purposely overpaid for a guy so he could be a trade chip in cap related trades. Also the hard cap is already happening. The huge cap jump messed it up though. Had the cap stayed level, I'd currently be over the hard cap. It will even out again in the long run. I think it is funny you took the time to try and justify how badly you were trade raping Larry. Nothing against you at all, but we all know how easy it is to convince Larry he is doing the right thing.
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Post by Alex English on Dec 29, 2016 2:23:00 GMT
I think it is funny you took the time to try and justify how badly you were trade raping Larry. Nothing against you at all, but we all know how easy it is to convince Larry he is doing the right thing. You know, I just don't see it, especially since our last PM about this deal was on Dec 22nd. I thought it was dead and had no idea about this being combined to make a 3 team deal. There's no voodoo magic in my negotiations with Larry. I've had trades where I knew I was killing it, and I'd just hope it passes the trade committee, but this isn't one of them. Comparing this to any of the other standard salary dump trades I linked, there is nothing weird or uncommon about this trade. Many worse salary dumps have gone through, and I can't see what makes this one particularly bad. Whatever, this is obviously dead and I don't really have anything more productive to say. I'll just move on to the next one.
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