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Post by Alex English on Jun 21, 2016 21:25:14 GMT
You will have the same exact team as you did last year and you still lost, why would you think it would change? You have no caption to make any serious I moves and the teams that you will face will also be the same (Gsw). I think sometimes there is too much I don't want to hurt his feelings going on. This is a weird argument to make. You think if we simply replayed this past season it would end the exact same way? You beat me in 7 games, go on to the finals, then lose in 5 to the Hornets? If I had gone on to win the championship nobody would've been surprised. There are five or six teams which could have won it this year. It will be the same thing next year.
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Kevin Hollis
Former Thunder GM for 7 years
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Post by Kevin Hollis on Jun 21, 2016 21:29:18 GMT
Why would you? I don't see how anyone could be thinking he would make close to that.
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Kevin Hollis
Former Thunder GM for 7 years
All Star
Posts: 2,838
Dec 16, 2022 11:27:40 GMT
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Post by Kevin Hollis on Jun 21, 2016 21:30:10 GMT
You will have the same exact team as you did last year and you still lost, why would you think it would change? You have no caption to make any serious I moves and the teams that you will face will also be the same (Gsw). I think sometimes there is too much I don't want to hurt his feelings going on. This is a weird argument to make. You think if we simply replayed this past season it would end the exact same way? You beat me in 7 games, go on to the finals, then lose in 5 to the Hornets? If I had gone on to win the championship nobody would've been surprised. There are five or six teams which could have won it this year. It will be the same thing next year. Off justifications people are making, yes, I will use this argument.
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Post by James Kay on Jun 21, 2016 21:44:27 GMT
Why would you? I don't see how anyone could be thinking he would make close to that. Well I think Denver will have to in order to keep his team, but I think other teams wouldn't mind spending 25-30 mill if the cap is 108+ I'm not really fanatic about this decision, it was really close in my mind. Im doing my best to explain my reasoning and justify my vote, that's all
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Post by JR Wiles on Jun 21, 2016 21:48:07 GMT
We all know if Aldridge would have opted out, Alex would have threw a fit and we also know that they didnt go far this year and most likely it will be a repeated situation next season. Even with Wall and Harden. Sometimes players realize being in a certain situation or team jyst isnt going to work. Example, possibly Durant if he does leave.
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Kevin Hollis
Former Thunder GM for 7 years
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Posts: 2,838
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Post by Kevin Hollis on Jun 21, 2016 22:02:23 GMT
Who does the player option voting? If it is the player agents, how isn't this a conflict of interest?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2016 22:17:48 GMT
He is good but no one is going to give him that money when he is 33/34. You might be right. But if that’s his max, someone will likely give him something close to what he turned down (based on the previous cap), no? Actually the cap is gonna level off at around 105
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Post by James Kay on Jun 21, 2016 22:31:59 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2016 23:12:05 GMT
That's about this year. I'm talking about Aldridge's next option year. After this year hte cap is gonna raise again from 92-95ish to about 105ish, but then it's going to stop raising (according to the current CBA). After it raises to 105ish in 2018 it is projected to stay around that area, and actually decrease a little bit over the next couple of years. However, I bet there will be a new CBA by then.
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Chris Mullin
Golden State Warriors
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Post by Chris Mullin on Jun 21, 2016 23:26:49 GMT
So potentially I could lose LBJ this offseason. Some of the chatter from other GMs as to why I could lose him include the following 2 main points:
-He was traded to my team, he didn't choose to play for us on his own -The West is so loaded, it could potentially be easier for him to win in the East
Were these same factors considered in regards to LMA or do they only apply to LBJ? I ask because Denver acquired LMA the same way I acquired LBJ which was via trade. So every other star in the league wants max money, but LMA doesn't want max money because he can win in Denver? Just like with LBJ any team that LMA could've signed with would instantly become a better team and more attractive destination for potential free agents so I don't get the logic that he couldn't find a place that gives him a better chance to win. Would it be riskier? Absolutely, but keep in mind in "D5 reality" LMA has already won a title so why wouldn't he want to be compensated financially as a player that led his team to a D5 title? LBJ might leave my team because we're in the scary West, but LMA is cool to stay in the West and not even be the highest paid player on his own team?
My vote wouldn't have mattered but FWIW I would've voted LMA opt out. Denver is a great team on paper but they have literally never won anything in D5. We try and keep things "realistic" but what about our "D5 reality?" In "real life reality" Russell Westbrook is not going to sign with the Hornets, but in "D5 reality" there is a great chance he will sign with the Hornets because he just won a D5 title with them. I get that we want to strive for realism as much as possible, but we are in our own reality here in D5 and I don't feel like we consider that enough when it comes to player situations.
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Kevin Hollis
Former Thunder GM for 7 years
All Star
Posts: 2,838
Dec 16, 2022 11:27:40 GMT
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Post by Kevin Hollis on Jun 22, 2016 0:14:21 GMT
So potentially I could lose LBJ this offseason. Some of the chatter from other GMs as to why I could lose him include the following 2 main points: -He was traded to my team, he didn't choose to play for us on his own -The West is so loaded, it could potentially be easier for him to win in the East Were these same factors considered in regards to LMA or do they only apply to LBJ? I ask because Denver acquired LMA the same way I acquired LBJ which was via trade. So every other star in the league wants max money, but LMA doesn't want max money because he can win in Denver? Just like with LBJ any team that LMA could've signed with would instantly become a better team and more attractive destination for potential free agents so I don't get the logic that he couldn't find a place that gives him a better chance to win. Would it be riskier? Absolutely, but keep in mind in "D5 reality" LMA has already won a title so why wouldn't he want to be compensated financially as a player that led his team to a D5 title? LBJ might leave my team because we're in the scary West, but LMA is cool to stay in the West and not even be the highest paid player on his own team? My vote wouldn't have mattered but FWIW I would've voted LMA opt out. Denver is a great team on paper but they have literally never won anything in D5. We try and keep things "realistic" but what about our "D5 reality?" In "real life reality" Russell Westbrook is not going to sign with the Hornets, but in "D5 reality" there is a great chance he will sign with the Hornets because he just won a D5 title with them. I get that we want to strive for realism as much as possible, but we are in our own reality here in D5 and I don't feel like we consider that enough when it comes to player situations. I don't agree with you a lot, but This hits the nail on the head. Alex made a risky trade acquiring two players that could opt out for two players that he had bird rights. To me, his season was a disappointment. The team lacks defense, which killed them. Sometimes people have to face the consequences of the risks they chose to take. However, I whole heartedly believe if this was a Jr or other individual, LMA doesn't opt in. Side note, if player agents so get to vote, the person who is the team owner of the player in question better not get a vote.
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Post by Ian Noble on Jun 22, 2016 0:18:16 GMT
FYI: Both Alex English and Jeremiah Hill's votes cancelled out. Alex because he's the GM, Jeremiah because he's a PA and not on the Trade Committee - Bryan Colangelo accidentally posted the Player Options thread in the wrong section so Jeremiah got to vote.
With or without their votes the tally was tied so I messaged James Kay, Chris Mullin and Coach K and based the decision on their responses.
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Post by Alex English on Jun 22, 2016 1:03:41 GMT
FYI: Both Alex English and Jeremiah Hill's votes cancelled out. Alex because he's the GM, Jeremiah because he's a PA and not on the Trade Committee - Bryan Colangelo accidentally posted the Player Options thread in the wrong section so Jeremiah got to vote. With or without their votes the tally was tied so I messaged James Kay, Chris Mullin and Coach K and based the decision on their responses. It might also be worth noting that, while I agree with removing my vote and I said so in thread, player agents typically do vote on their own players. Walt's votes for Bledsoe and Favors counted, Bryan's vote for Lowry counted, etc. Those were just fairly obvious decisions. I don't actually recall any previous years where someone's votes weren't counted for their own players either. It's just a decision that was going to cause disagreement either way.
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Kevin Hollis
Former Thunder GM for 7 years
All Star
Posts: 2,838
Dec 16, 2022 11:27:40 GMT
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Post by Kevin Hollis on Jun 22, 2016 1:06:05 GMT
FYI: Both Alex English and Jeremiah Hill's votes cancelled out. Alex because he's the GM, Jeremiah because he's a PA and not on the Trade Committee - Bryan Colangelo accidentally posted the Player Options thread in the wrong section so Jeremiah got to vote. With or without their votes the tally was tied so I messaged James Kay, Chris Mullin and Coach K and based the decision on their responses. It might also be worth noting that, while I agree with removing my vote and I said so in thread, player agents typically do vote on their own players. Walt's votes for Bledsoe and Favors counted, Bryan's vote for Lowry counted, etc. Those were just fairly obvious decisions. I don't actually recall any previous years where someone's votes weren't counted for their own players either. It's just a decision that was going to cause disagreement either way. I think in general regardless of the situation, a person should not get a vote on their player. I am not singling the lma event out. It just doesn't make sense.
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Post by Alex English on Jun 22, 2016 1:42:22 GMT
I think in general regardless of the situation, a person should not get a vote on their player. I am not singling the lma event out. It just doesn't make sense. To be honest, I agree. It's something that could have a better defined policy for how it's handled in the future.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Jun 22, 2016 2:01:35 GMT
I think actually the most convincing of that smorgasbord of arguments I just laid out: When Aldridge opts out during the 2017-2018 season, the cap is actually estimated to be around 108 million, giving him a potential max contract of 37.8 million. And I wouldn’t be surprised to see it rise even higher. But, in 2 more years, Aldridge will be turning 33 and may have established himself as not in his prime anymore. His stats sunk considerably this year, and factoring in the last 2 seasons, he's on a downward trend. He could have just turned down about 20 million MORE for the next two years, plus he may now make less once his contract is over, vs the option of getting one more max 5-year contract this year that would take him through his age 35 or 36 season. We'll see long-term I guess. I know I considered a ton of these variables as well, and had him opting out, but it was definitely close, and there are a lot of factors. Just depends what you value more and what you think the player values more. One big thing for me was that, although Aldridge went to the Spurs IRL (clearly he cares about winning), he did NOT take any less than the max to do it. So, most money possible while winning. I really felt he already saw what he could do in Denver, and it wasn't enough for a ring. But again, we all have different values. We'll see how it works out longterm. EDIT: I realize some of this was hashed out already, sorry. Posted before finishing the thread.
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Post by James Kay on Jun 22, 2016 2:03:45 GMT
posting here for visibility, come to chat
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Post by Walt Frazier on Jun 22, 2016 2:09:40 GMT
So potentially I could lose LBJ this offseason. Some of the chatter from other GMs as to why I could lose him include the following 2 main points: -He was traded to my team, he didn't choose to play for us on his own -The West is so loaded, it could potentially be easier for him to win in the East Were these same factors considered in regards to LMA or do they only apply to LBJ? I ask because Denver acquired LMA the same way I acquired LBJ which was via trade. So every other star in the league wants max money, but LMA doesn't want max money because he can win in Denver? Just like with LBJ any team that LMA could've signed with would instantly become a better team and more attractive destination for potential free agents so I don't get the logic that he couldn't find a place that gives him a better chance to win. Would it be riskier? Absolutely, but keep in mind in "D5 reality" LMA has already won a title so why wouldn't he want to be compensated financially as a player that led his team to a D5 title? LBJ might leave my team because we're in the scary West, but LMA is cool to stay in the West and not even be the highest paid player on his own team? My vote wouldn't have mattered but FWIW I would've voted LMA opt out. Denver is a great team on paper but they have literally never won anything in D5. We try and keep things "realistic" but what about our "D5 reality?" In "real life reality" Russell Westbrook is not going to sign with the Hornets, but in "D5 reality" there is a great chance he will sign with the Hornets because he just won a D5 title with them. I get that we want to strive for realism as much as possible, but we are in our own reality here in D5 and I don't feel like we consider that enough when it comes to player situations. I agree with basically all of this. The only quibble I have is that LeBron is a special case. Has LMA EVER played in the East? No. Has LeBron EVER played in the West (IRL)? Nope. It is still seemingly easier to win in the East, overall, although it is slowly coming around in D5, and as noted elsewhere, the East has won 3/5 D5 championships. But yea, LeBron has never left the East and has only played in 2 cities, one being his hometown. Him choosing to stay in the West is at least somewhat less realistic, D5 or IRL, than Aldridge not wanting to play in the West. He's only ever played in the West IRL and in D5.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Jun 22, 2016 2:30:18 GMT
posting here for visibility, come to chat I just got blocked in the chat because I "spammed" by trying to post "haha" and "shhh" So...if I'm awake I'll be back in 15 minutes. Ian Noble - can you change the settings on that chat? Seriously, that's all I tried to do, a total of like 2 or 3 times, and it blocked me for 15 minutes in the chat. @riogho - I'll try to get back in there to respond to those talks. I'm a thinker anyway and need some time to ponder, but it's interesting.
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Post by Charles Barkley on Jun 22, 2016 5:57:27 GMT
All 5 of you should be ashamed of yourself.
This is some serious fucking bullshit. And it is because of things like this that make good GM's, like myself, not want to even participate in anything for months at a time.
Eric Gordon opting out is a TERRIBLE decision. He opt's out for money, that's the reasoning given. He's fucking making 25 million over 2 years. He is not a good player, he won't make that over the next 3 years, if some GM is dumb enough to offer him a 3 year deal. He is always hurt, who knows if he can even play with everything that ails him. So, what do you 5 geniuses do? You have him opt-out, giving up 25 million dollars. Forget the fact that a real agent would tell the client that a dollar today is worth more than a dollar tomorrow, and that it is better to have 26 million over 2 years than 28 million over four years, because you can invest that money and make more money off of it sooner. You guys missed this one completely, COMPLETELY. Who in their right mind is giving Eric Gordon a 4 year deal that is fully guaranteed. If he gets anything past 3 years, it is going to be littered with team options, meaning this guy doesn't know if he will be getting paid next year. Dumb dumb dumb on all of the 4 who voted "out"
LaMarcus Aldridge opting in is another terrible decision and I think it is the one that baffles me the most. For Ian to let Alex vote on if his own player should stay on his team or not is just beyond stupid. I mean, what the fuck did you think he was going to vote? And then for it to literally be decided by 1 vote... I mean come the fuck on guys? What the fuck does this look like here? Collusion. When you have the same group of GMs running shit all the time, I, as a GM in this league, needs to believe that shady shit like this doesn't happen and does not occur. Instead, you put it right out there for everyone to see. Fucking terrible and a disgrace. Beyond that shit storm that you, Ian, opened yourself up to, why the fuck would he opt-in? He gave San Antonio a home-town discount, in the sense that he wanted to play closer to where he grew up and lives. It isn't right next door in Texas to Dallas, but it also isn't Portland, or Denver. And, some may say that LMA did it because he wanted to win, but the Nuggets just got eliminated in the WCSF, not the Finals, or even the WCF, the WCSF, and they got spanked. At the end of the day, it is a terrible oversight to let a GM vote on whether his own super star player stays or goes, terrible oversight. And it is shit like this that makes you think twice about everything that happens in this league. This also just feels like we aren't penalizing a GM for making a stupid trade that fucked his team up because he is friends with the Commissioner and is active. Well, if thats the case, maybe some of the other fucks in this league that don't do shit will actually do shit now if this is what it gets you.
John Wall could have went both ways, it is what it is. Felt like the vote should have been a bit more split though, and then you could have had Alex making the final vote on that as well.
Amir Johnson isn't getting that cash elsewhere dumbasses. Our cap may be going up, but that doesn't mean we are about to throw money to the likes of Eric Gordon and Amir Johnson. I'd rather burn money than pay Amir more than that.
Greg Monroe not opting out when literally everything Greg Monroe has done in his career contract wise has been about money and being the star goes against real life player personalities, which is something we all harped on and harped on. I guess your heads are just too thick to understand the message. Again, this seems like we are telling GMs that it is ok to make stupid trades and not think about player options. Only this time it went in favor of someone who isn't largely active. So maybe you don't need to be active to get the special treatment.
Marc Gasol could have went both ways, shouldn't have been as one-sided.
Eric Bledsoe opting in makes no sense. Bledsoe wanted the max IRL when he signed his extension, he didn't get it but that is what he wanted. And he definitely would have received more than what he will make on this contract, if not the full max. I assume Walt was allowed to vote on this as well, only seems fair.
Derrick Favors opting in or out doesn't matter because Walt would resign him anyways, think Favors agent should know this and opt out just to get more money, because that's what an agent would do. The player has leverage.
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Post by Charles Barkley on Jun 22, 2016 5:59:01 GMT
Looks like another off-season will come and go where we don't make a real attempt at doing what the player would actually do and acting as if they would act.
Really saddening and disheartening that this shit goes on in a league I have come to care a lot about.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2016 13:13:52 GMT
Lots of shit-throwing Charles, you could make a decent argument the other way for most of those players.
One thing you did bring up though that is VERY accurate, and in my opinion needs to change, is player agents voting for their own players. If Alex really did have a vote on whether LMA stays or goes, I do question the validity of the LMA vote especially since it was decided by only one vote.
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Post by Ian Noble on Jun 22, 2016 13:20:14 GMT
FYI: Both Alex English and Jeremiah Hill's votes cancelled out. Alex because he's the GM, Jeremiah because he's a PA and not on the Trade Committee - Bryan Colangelo accidentally posted the Player Options thread in the wrong section so Jeremiah got to vote. With or without their votes the tally was tied so I messaged James Kay, Chris Mullin and Coach K and based the decision on their responses.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2016 13:26:07 GMT
FYI: Both Alex English and Jeremiah Hill's votes cancelled out. Alex because he's the GM, Jeremiah because he's a PA and not on the Trade Committee - Bryan Colangelo accidentally posted the Player Options thread in the wrong section so Jeremiah got to vote. With or without their votes the tally was tied so I messaged James Kay, Chris Mullin and Coach K and based the decision on their responses. It should be a thing though - you can't vote on your own players.
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Post by Ian Noble on Jun 22, 2016 13:29:13 GMT
It should be a thing though - you can't vote on your own players. Yeah it should be, and it will be, and I suppose it is since we didn't include Alex's vote.
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Post by Allen Iverson on Jun 22, 2016 13:30:01 GMT
FYI: Both Alex English and Jeremiah Hill's votes cancelled out. Alex because he's the GM, Jeremiah because he's a PA and not on the Trade Committee - Bryan Colangelo accidentally posted the Player Options thread in the wrong section so Jeremiah got to vote. With or without their votes the tally was tied so I messaged James Kay, Chris Mullin and Coach K and based the decision on their responses. How about us other GMs?
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Post by JR Wiles on Jun 22, 2016 14:07:43 GMT
How about us other GMs? I have never understood why all active and veteran GMs are not rotated and at least offered a helper position. Whether it be player agent, ratings, etc. How hard would it have been to have a league wide vote on Player Options?Some decisions I get should not or cant be done this way. But, even if some GMs dont vote on a player..I personally feel these huge league making decisions should be made by us ALL!! I know there are favorites. I get that. It happens everywhere. This is a league of basketball fans. If we didnt love the game we would not waste our time. Certain situations should be voted by all though. So no questions are asked. So no one will feel like they have been screwed over. Just because there are favorites though, it does not mean that the rest of us cant or dont want the opportunity. Im sure if asked I wouldn't be able to right now. So this is not about me. Its about the league. But situations like the LMA situation with Alex should never have happened. I get that other gms were asked to vote. My thing is not EVERY PLAYER VOTED IN PLAYER OPTIONS- HAD THE SAME AMOUNT OF VOTES. Gms voted on own players, and the select few making the overall league vote(or should be), got to be part of the future of the league and those teams. Huge decisions like that need to be voted by the league... Thoughts?
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Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on Jun 22, 2016 14:16:05 GMT
This is becoming interesting. I like the rotation idea.
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Post by JR Wiles on Jun 22, 2016 14:28:20 GMT
This is becoming interesting. I like the rotation idea. I honestly dont see it ever happening. We are all fans and part of the league though and there should be fairness when it comes to VOTES or A LEAGUE decision!
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Kevin Hollis
Former Thunder GM for 7 years
All Star
Posts: 2,838
Dec 16, 2022 11:27:40 GMT
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Post by Kevin Hollis on Jun 22, 2016 14:29:55 GMT
This is becoming interesting. I like the rotation idea. That requires delegating power outside of the circle. An idea that seems to be ignored.
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