James Harden

[Brian Scalabrine]

Box Score Stats:
29 PPG
7.1 APG
6.4 RPG
43.3% FG
34.3% 3P
50.2% EFG

Advanced Stats:
25.3 PER   (Doesn't take D into account)
7.0 Offensive Plus minus
-0.5 Defensive Plus minus
.199 Win Shares per 48   (Worst since his 2nd Year)

Houston D is ranked 23rd by possession

James Harden is an incredible Offensive player but his Defense is bad. Historically Bad. I could post endless clips of him falling asleep, lazily reaching or simply letting his guy just blow by him because he's too lazy to even try.

I can understand some players are bad defenders but when someone doesn't try at all it offends me as a basketball fan. James Harden is a 97 on offense. Though even this year his efficiency has gone down.

But he's a 60 on D. He's a big reason this years Rockets team in barely in the playoffs and might not even make it after they were predicted by some to win 60+. 

If anyone doubts how bad this dude is on D, I'll be happy to show specific plays but if you watch NBA basketball its totally obviously how awful he is on that end. That's not the play of a 90+. 

Current Rating: 92

Suggested Rating: 87

[Alex English]

Mar 11, 2016 22:48:45 GMT Brian Scalabrine said:

I can understand some players are bad defenders but when someone doesn't try at all it offends me as a basketball fan. James Harden is a 97 on offense. Though even this year his efficiency has gone down.

Kinda, but not really. He had a rough start to the year. In his first 22 games he shot 39.7% from the floor and 30.1% from three. Since then he's shot 45.2% overall and 36.7% from deep. So same old Harden.

This is basically the best example there could be of being blinded by the overall rating. Here is a list of every rating category:

Offensive Awareness
Field Goal
Three Point
Free Throw
Dunk
Pass
Handle
Inside
Offensive Rebounding
Defensive Rebounding
Defensive Awareness
Steal
Block
Speed
Quick
Jump
Strength
Stamina
Injury

What do you propose we do to lower him 5 overall rating points? That's huge!

There is literally one category for this, it's Defensive Awareness. So maybe you make it a 60, and then there's nothing you can do. I don't know what it is currently though, this isn't the first time Harden has been looked at, it will already be relatively low.

[Charles Barkley]

5 OVR points is 75 Attribute points.

His D-Aware is currently a 70, steal an 81, and block a 29.

You're going to scream and say why is his steal an 81? Well, because he gets a 1.6 a game, and that's an 81. And his Steal rating doesn't show how bad he is at defense, just how many steals he gets a game. But who knows anymore about that shit.

90. Straight up take 30 off his D-Aware. Make it a 40.

[Jeremiah Hill]

Mar 12, 2016 0:04:50 GMT Charles Barkley said:

5 OVR points is 75 Attribute points.

His D-Aware is currently a 70, steal an 81, and block a 29.

You're going to scream and say why is his steal an 81? Well, because he gets a 1.6 a game, and that's an 81. And his Steal rating doesn't show how bad he is at defense, just how many steals he gets a game. But who knows anymore about that shit.

90. Straight up take 30 off his D-Aware. Make it a 40.

I'm ok with this. 87 is too low and I'm a well recorded Harden hater. 

[Deleted]

I like elevated discussion on the higher rated players. Once you're getting into the high 80s and 90s semantic arguments about who's better doesn't really work and the only way to actually approach this is to look at their individual attributes like we are doing here. Great job guys.

[Alex English]

Okay, so my first post should tell you why it's ridiculous to talk about his overall over one single category. Now I'm going to show that his defense isn't actually that bad. Is he good? No. But is he "historically bad" as it was put? No. Not even close.

We've all seen those minutes long videos of Harden playing shit defense, and we act like it means something. For balance, here is an 11 minute long video of Harden playing great defense:



It's the cool thing to do to hate on Harden's defense. I think his demeanor has something to do with it, but it's not really evidence. There are plenty of examples in that video of Harden playing great and he still has the 'I don't know what's going on' demeanor to him. It's just how he is and how he moves, it's not showing he's asleep at the wheel and lost on defense, not that it doesn't also happen with him, but you should get what I'm saying.

Now let's take a look at some stats that measure defense. First, is Defensive Win Shares.

4.7 - Kawhi Leonard (What a beast!)
3.9 - Draymond Green (Him too.)
3.8 - Paul George
3.5 - Lebron James
3.2 - Russell Westbrook
3.1 - Stephen Curry
3.0 - Kyle Lowry
2.9 - Chris Paul
2.7 - Kevin Durant
2.7 - John Wall
2.5 - Tony Parker
2.3 - Nicolas Batum
2.3 - Jimmy Butler
2.3 - Jeff Teague
2.2 - Avery Bradley
2.2 - Giannis Antetokounmpo
2.2 - Dwyane Wade
2.1 - Victor Oladipo
2.0 - Andre Iguodala
2.0 - Klay Thompson
1.9 - Carmelo Anthony
1.8 - DeMar DeRozan
1.8 - James Harden
1.8 - Rajon Rondo
1.7 - Tony Allen
1.7 - Reggie Jackson
1.6 - Michael Carter-Williams
1.5 - Rudy Gay
1.5 - Ricky Rubio
1.4 - Matthew Dellavedova
1.3 - Harrison Barnes
1.3 - Mike Conley
1.3 - Khris Middleton
1.3 - Damian Lillard
1.2 - Kyrie Irving
1.2 - Derrick Rose
1.1 - Jrue Holiday
1.1 - JJ Redick
1.0 - Danilo Gallinari
0.8 - Bradley Beal
0.7 - Arron Afflalo
0.6 - Brandon Knight
0.5 - Joe Johnson
0.5 - D'Angelo Russell
0.3 - Andrew Wiggins
0.1 - Jordan Clarkson
0.1 - Lou Williams
-0.1 - Nick Young

and other Houston Rockets:

2.2 - Dwight Howard
1.8 - James Harden
1.7 - Trevor Ariza
1.5 - Clint Capela
0.9 - Patrick Beverley
0.9 - Corey Brewer

So he's not even the worst defender on his team, and isn't especially bad considering other perimeter defenders.

Don't like Defensive Win Shares as a stat? How about Defensive Box Score +/-?

+3.8 - Draymond Green (What a beast!)
+2.7 - Kawhi Leonard (Him too.)
+2.4 - Lebron James
+2.2 - Russell Westbrook
+2.1 - Iman Shumpert
+1.7 - Tony Allen
+1.6 - Marcus Smart
+1.4 - Andre Iguodala
+1.2 - Giannis Antetokounmpo
+1.1 - Nicolas Batum
+1.0 - John Wall
+0.9 - Michael Carter-Williams
+0.8 - Kevin Durant
+0.7 - Kyle Lowry
+0.6 - Victor Oladipo
+0.5 - Chris Paul
+0.5 - Jimmy Butler
+0.1 - Stephen Curry
+0.1 - Rajon Rondo
0.0 - Rudy Gay
-0.1 - Dwyane Wade
-0.2 - Carmelo Anthony
-0.3 - Tony Parker
-0.3 - Ricky Rubio
-0.4 - Avery Bradley
-0.5 - James Harden
-0.7 - Harrison Barnes
-0.9 - Jeff Taague
-1.1 - Matthew Dellavedova
-1.1 - Deron Williams
-1.2 - Reggie Jackson
-1.2 - Jrue Holiday
-1.3 - DeMar DeRozan
-1.5 - Kyrie Irving
-1.5 - Danilo Gallinari
-1.7 - Mike Conley
-1.7 - Derrick Rose
-1.8 - Khris Middleton
-1.8 - Arron Afflalo
-1.8 - Brandon Knight
-1.9 - Damian Lillard
-1.9 - D'Angelo Russell
-2.1 - Jordan Clarkson
-2.2 - Klay Thompson
-2.7 - Lou Williams
-2.7 - JJ Redick
-2.9 - Andrew Wiggins

and other Houston Rockets:

+1.7 - Clint Capela
+1.4 - Dwight Howard
+0.3 - Trevor Ariza
-0.5 - James Harden
-0.6 - Patrick Beverley
-0.9 - Corey Brewer

So he's not even the worst defender on his team, and isn't especially bad considering other perimeter defenders.

Don't like Defensive Box Score +/- as a stat? How about Differential Opponent FG%? This measure an opponent's average FG% versus their FG% against a specific player.

-7.0% - Lebron James (Players shoot 7% worse against Lebron than they do normally. That's pretty crazy.)
-6.9% - Draymond Green
-5.7% - JJ Redick
-5.7% - Kevin Durant
-5.1% - Carmelo Anthony
-4.9% - Kawhi Leonard
-3.5% - Jeff Teague
-3.5% - Stephen Curry
-3.2% - Paul George
-2.9% - Avery Bradley
-2.7% - Tony Allen
-2.6% - Giannis Antetokounmpo
-2.1% - Matthew Dellavedova
-2.1% - Rudy Gay
-1.5% - Nicolas Batum
-1.2% - Lou Williams
-1.1% - Michael Carter-Williams
-1.1% - Deron Williams
-1.0% - John Wall
-0.8% - Klay Thompson
-0.7% - Derrick Rose
-0.7% - Iman Shumpert
-0.7% - Kyrie Irving
-0.7% - Victor Oladipo
-0.6% - Kyle Lowry
-0.6% - Andre Iguodala
-0.2% - Marcus Smart
-0.1% - Bradley Beal
+0.3% - Harrison Barnes
+0.7% - Damian Lillard
+0.9% - Jimmy Butler
+1.0% - Rajon Rondo
+1.1% - Joe Johnson
+1.3% - Andrew Wiggins
+1.4% - Mike Conley
+1.7% - James Harden
+1.7% - Jrue Holiday
+2.0% - Chris Paul
+2.0% - Jordan Clarkson
+2.1% - Tony Allen
+2.5% - Ricky Rubio
+2.9% - Reggie Jackson
+3.2% - Arron Afflalo
+3.2% - D'Angelo Russell
+3.5% - Brandon Knight
+5.0% - DeMar DeRozan
+5.8% - Nick Young

and other Houston Rockets:

-1.8% - Clint Capela
-0.5% - Dwight Howard
-0.3% - Patrick Beverley
-0.1% - Trevor Ariza
+1.7% - James Harden
+3.4% - Corey Brewer

So he's not even the worst defender on his team, but hey, he's actually below average this time. There are still plenty of guys below him though.

So what is there to say? Well I think the 'Harden is a historically bad defender' meme is confirmation bias. Hating on him is the cool thing to do and every time you see him screw up you can say 'see, I told you so!'

---

As for his actual ratings, I think he's fine where he is. A 70 is pretty bad for a statistic, and lowering him to the 50 range, or even lower, is just out of line with what the stats show.

I vote no change.

[Deleted]

After an expected improvement to his individual defense last season, Harden's defensive regression this season has been unmistakeable. People shoot 5.2% better when he’s playing. 7.7% better from less than 10 feet, and 3.7% better from greater than 15. Basically, when Harden trots back from scoring one of the 29.8 points he’s averaging, he catches his breath instead of, at the very least, getting a hand in somebody’s face.

www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/james-hardens-glaring-defensive-problem_us_569a734ae4b0778f46f9899b

[Jeremiah Hill]

I just watched the whole video you posted Alex English 

Here is the teams all of the highlights were on:

Good Teams: 

Dallas 2 times
San Antonio 3 times
Golden State 3 times
OKC 2 times (during the season they had tons of injuries)
LA Clippers 2 times

Total: 12
 
OK Teams: 

Memphis 3 times
Miami 4 times (each time he was matched against Chalmers or Cole)
Milwaukee 2 times
Boston 3 times

Total: 12

Bad Teams: 

Philadelphia 4 times
Sacramento 5 times
Lakers 5 times
New York 2 times
Minnesota 1 time
Utah 1 time

Total: 18

Basically what I am saying is that other than some of those top teams, most of these teams were OK-Bad and even the top ones some have questionable 2 guard matchups. Additionally, the entire video was really a highlight real of Harden gambling on defense and those were the 30-40 times it worked. Many of them I thought were fouls against Harden as well. 

There is a nightly highlight reel of him sucking on D and only a few where he has decent defense. Additionally when a bunch of the highlights come vs bad teams and or are gambles on defense then it makes you wonder. 

[Alex English]

Mar 12, 2016 2:25:28 GMT @riogho said:

After an expected improvement to his individual defense last season, Harden's defensive regression this season has been unmistakeable. People shoot 5.2% better when he’s playing. 7.7% better from less than 10 feet, and 3.7% better from greater than 15. Basically, when Harden trots back from scoring one of the 29.8 points he’s averaging, he catches his breath instead of, at the very least, getting a hand in somebody’s face.

www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/james-hardens-glaring-defensive-problem_us_569a734ae4b0778f46f9899b

Those stats are from December 2nd, after Harden had played a total of 18 games. Hardly a meaningful sample size. His numbers now, which are above, are much better. Instead of 5.2% better it's now just 1.7% better. The stats show him to be a slightly below average defender.

Nobody thinks he good, but to act like he's a historically bad defender is just circle-jerking about a subject that people love to hate right now.

Damian Lillard is a worse defender than Harden, only a few people talk about his shit defense. Same with Andrew Wiggins, which is something nobody talks about at all, probably since nobody gives a shit if Minnesota is good yet. Wiggins has the potential to be an All-Defensive level player though, but it just hasn't happened yet. DeRozan is also about as bad as Harden is on defense. Kyrie Irving too. Gallinari sucks as well. Harrison Barnes is the weak link on the Warriors. I could go on.

It's just fashionable to hate on Harden.

[Alex English]

Mar 12, 2016 2:49:34 GMT Jeremiah Hill said:

I just watched the whole video you posted Alex English  

Here is the teams all of the highlights were on:

Good Teams: 

Dallas 2 times
San Antonio 3 times
Golden State 3 times
OKC 2 times (during the season they had tons of injuries)
LA Clippers 2 times

Total: 12
 
OK Teams: 

Memphis 3 times
Miami 4 times (each time he was matched against Chalmers or Cole)
Milwaukee 2 times
Boston 3 times

Total: 12

Bad Teams: 

Philadelphia 4 times
Sacramento 5 times
Lakers 5 times
New York 2 times
Minnesota 1 time
Utah 1 time

Total: 18

Basically what I am saying is that other than some of those top teams, most of these teams were OK-Bad and even the top ones some have questionable 2 guard matchups. Additionally, the entire video was really a highlight real of Harden gambling on defense and those were the 30-40 times it worked. Many of them I thought were fouls against Harden as well. 

There is a nightly highlight reel of him sucking on D and only a few where he has decent defense. Additionally when a bunch of the highlights come vs bad teams and or are gambles on defense then it makes you wonder. 

12-12-18 is pretty close to a random distribution. So there were 6 more highlights against shit teams. Except Memphis won 55 games last season, so the're definitely a good team. So now this mix is 15-9-18.

[Jeremiah Hill]

What about the part about this being a gambling on defense highlight reel?

[Alex English]

Mar 12, 2016 3:09:53 GMT Jeremiah Hill said:

What about the part about this being a gambling on defense highlight reel?

You probably have a point here, but also, it's a highlight video, and those types of gambles are what's exciting. A video of a player taking a dribble or two, looking to drive, being stopped, reverse dribble, pass the ball, repeat x100 makes fro a boring youtube video.

Here's one of the best defender in the league. Compared to what you considered gambles by Harden, how many of Kawhi's plays are gambles?

[Brian Scalabrine]

Lot of good discussion here but specifically to Alex I just wanna say that if you need stats to judge Harden's D you aren't looking at the games. Defensive stats aren't there yet in the NBA they are severely flawed but watching him it's so obvious he's just awful. Now I know this is subjective but I'd be hard pressed to find any writer, analyst or even fan who would disagree with me there

[Jeremiah Hill]

Mar 12, 2016 3:16:23 GMT Alex English said:

Mar 12, 2016 3:09:53 GMT Jeremiah Hill said:

What about the part about this being a gambling on defense highlight reel?

You probably have a point here, but also, it's a highlight video, and those types of gambles are what's exciting. A video of a player taking a dribble or two, looking to drive, being stopped, reverse dribble, pass the ball, repeat x100 makes fro a boring youtube video.

Here's one of the best defender in the league. Compared to what you considered gambles by Harden, how many of Kawhi's plays are gambles?




Some of them are. But a lot more of those were just pure effort plays. And there is also what happens after a failed steal attempt. Typically with Kawhi he hustles back makes up the ground to get back in front of his man. With Harden he gets back on offense. Another difference is on Kahwi's blocks. More of his blocks are with him being in front of his man. I can recall one block Harden had in his video where he was completely off his guy behind Cousins. 

[Alex English]

Mar 12, 2016 4:11:18 GMT Brian Scalabrine said:

Lot of good discussion here but specifically to Alex I just wanna say that if you need stats to judge Harden's D you aren't looking at the games. Defensive stats aren't there yet in the NBA they are severely flawed but watching him it's so obvious he's just awful. Now I know this is subjective but I'd be hard pressed to find any writer, analyst or even fan who would disagree with me there

I'm not really on board with you here. Yes, offensive stats are ahead of defensive stats, but if you look at all the defensive stats and you see guys like Kawhi, Draymond, etc. at the top of the list, then you know what you're measuring is matching up with what you see.

It's a two way street though, stats can inform what you see, or should see, as well. Analytics completely revolutionized the MLB because what people thought was important, didn't line up with how the statistics measured success. Teams that did use advanced statistics had a huge advantage because they saw through the conventional wisdom of baseball.

There are also libraries full of books that could tell you how people interpret what they see, based on how they want to see it. If Harden is a historically bad defender in your mind, then you'll naturally recognize more examples of how your view is true.

I watched some of the Rockets game versus the Celtics tonight. Late in the 4th the Isaiah Thomas was driving to the net in transition, Harden rotated over and blocked his layup in a great defensive play. He saved 2 points late in the game and that helped them win. Since it's James Harden, I'm pretty sure very few people will have that play impact their opinion. What will have an impact though, is that about a minute before that great play, he was in help side defense on Marcus Smart, he lost him when Smart cut to the net, and he got a wide open layup. He gave up 2 easy points.

The point I want to make is this, the stats will measure both those plays and will show his net impact on the game is 0. Most people on the other hand, will focus on him being lost in help defense and letting Smart score an easy bucket. It's just another example of how awful Harden is and that he hurts the Rockets team.

The stats measure the whole picture. They show that Harden is at worst a moderately below average defender. They show, based on just about every single way defense can be measured, that Damian Lillard is a worse defender than Harden, and there are many others just about as bad as Harden is.
Why is Harden the focus more than Lillard or anyone else? It's conventional wisdom that Harden sucks giant cock as a defender. Not Lillard.


Harden is bad, but his D is really not as awful as it's made out to be.

[Jeremiah Hill]

I think that Patrick Beverly being behind Harden on some of those stats is because he's the one whos actually guarding the good players. Harden guards the worst one.

[Ghazny Dimalen]

88

[Kevin Hollis]

90

[Hanamichi Sakuragi]

it is all about his D-Aware. 90

[Charles Barkley]

Alex English see the Damian Lillard thread

Cliff Notes:

Because the Rockets have better players defensively, Harden does not have to guard a top wing.

Defensive Win Shares is a bogus stat. We can hand pick stats that make any argument for us nowadays.

Does anyone have any idea what Oliver's defensive rating is? And how it is calculated?

Analytics are good. So is the eye test.

I know Mike Trout is good at baseball, I don't need WAR to tell me so. WAR, and other analytical stats were first used by GMs to compose the best possible teams, because GMs back then were usually former players or basketball guys of the 70's, and 80's, and didn't necessarily understand todays game as well.

We, on the other hand, are a group of 30 pretty die hard basketball fans that all understand things without needing advanced stats. We know JJ Redick is a good shooter. We know Kawhi is a great defender. We don't need advanced stats to tell us how good a player is.

We do need advanced stats in here, but not to tell us James Harden is bad at defense. And we really don't need advanced stats in the Stock Watch at all. We aren't a bunch of idiots.

[Jeremiah Hill]

Mar 12, 2016 20:51:03 GMT Charles Barkley said:

Alex English see the Damian Lillard thread

Cliff Notes:

Because the Rockets have better players defensively, Harden does not have to guard a top wing.

Defensive Win Shares is a bogus stat. We can hand pick stats that make any argument for us nowadays.

Does anyone have any idea what Oliver's defensive rating is? And how it is calculated?

Analytics are good. So is the eye test.

I know Mike Trout is good at baseball, I don't need WAR to tell me so. WAR, and other analytical stats were first used by GMs to compose the best possible teams, because GMs back then were usually former players or basketball guys of the 70's, and 80's, and didn't necessarily understand todays game as well.

We, on the other hand, are a group of 30 pretty die hard basketball fans that all understand things without needing advanced stats. We know JJ Redick is a good shooter. We know Kawhi is a great defender. We don't need advanced stats to tell us how good a player is.

We do need advanced stats in here, but not to tell us James Harden is bad at defense. And we really don't need advanced stats in the Stock Watch at all. We aren't a bunch of idiots.

-----
Speak for yourself we need Advanced Stats to show us that Rudy Gay has never helped a team as much as his regular stats have shown. 

[Alex English]

Yes because using advanced stats to help form opinions means you're an idiot...

I'm sorry, I forgot you were all Gregg fucking Popovich in here. This whole process is dumb. Give him what you want to give him, 40, 30, -10, whatever. As much as anything, this is just a sweet chance for some of you to lower a superstar that's not yours.

So while you're doing it just make sure you start threads for Carmelo Anthony (92), Dwight Howard (89), Kevin Love (88), Tim Duncan (86), Serge Ibaka (85), Derrick Rose (85), and Goran Dragic (85) for a start. None of those guys deserve their rating.

Somehow I doubt that will happen, except maybe as 'screw you' since I made this post. Where the collective eye of the stockwatch section is focused is way too influenced by media headlines and which D5 team a player is on, and not influenced enough by what's happening on the court.

The idea that some of you think James Harden, a guy putting up 29, 7 and 6, and who's carrying his rubbish team to a record above .500 isn't a 90+ player is mental. It just doesn't matter what argument I could make because that opinion is obviously not based on what's actually happening during the games.

Whether my opinion agrees with any of yours will be a coincidence more than because I actually made any good arguments, and those that disagree will be totally unaffected by any potential arguments I could make. I'm going to stop trying to convince people and explain myself. I think it's a waste.

Where is the quiet room Andrei Kirilenko went to? I'd like to go join him.

[Alex English]

I vote a 94 for Harden.

He'd be 97+ if he was an elite defender along everything else. Take some points off since he actually sucks (though not as bad as you all think), and I think a 94 is fair.

I'll leave the rest to you guys.

[JR Wiles]

93

[Kevin Hollis]

Mar 12, 2016 23:49:56 GMT Alex English said:

Yes because using advanced stats to help form opinions means you're an idiot...

I'm sorry, I forgot you were all Gregg fucking Popovich in here. This whole process is dumb. Give him what you want to give him, 40, 30, -10, whatever. As much as anything, this is just a sweet chance for some of you to lower a superstar that's not yours.

So while you're doing it just make sure you start threads for Carmelo Anthony (92), Dwight Howard (89), Kevin Love (88), Tim Duncan (86), Serge Ibaka (85), Derrick Rose (85), and Goran Dragic (85) for a start. None of those guys deserve their rating.

Somehow I doubt that will happen, except maybe as 'screw you' since I made this post. Where the collective eye of the stockwatch section is focused is way too influenced by media headlines and which D5 team a player is on, and not influenced enough by what's happening on the court.

The idea that some of you think James Harden, a guy putting up 29, 7 and 6, and who's carrying his rubbish team to a record above .500 isn't a 90+ player is mental. It just doesn't matter what argument I could make because that opinion is obviously not based on what's actually happening during the games.

Whether my opinion agrees with any of yours will be a coincidence more than because I actually made any good arguments, and those that disagree will be totally unaffected by any potential arguments I could make. I'm going to stop trying to convince people and explain myself. I think it's a waste.

Where is the quiet room Andrei Kirilenko went to? I'd like to go join him.

To be honest, there are already threads to lower Dragic, Duncan, Carmelo, Howard, and Ibaka. 

[Alex English]

Mar 13, 2016 0:15:04 GMT Kevin Hollis said:

To be honest, there are already threads to lower Dragic, Duncan, Carmelo, Howard, and Ibaka. 

True. I even started the Dwight Howard thread lol. He's getting an 84, Dragic an 82, Melo an 87, Duncan an 83, and the Ibaka thread was never tallied as far as I can tell. Lots of bullshit in that thread.

So part of why I'm annoyed is unfounded, but those threads have sat for more than a month with nothing happening. After a while we'll forget what's meant to be happening with the ratings, probably even Walt too who does the hard work. Their old ratings are still their ratings. Some might need a whole new rating thread by the time they finally get their update.

[Kevin Hollis]

Mar 13, 2016 0:42:35 GMT Alex English said:

Mar 13, 2016 0:15:04 GMT Kevin Hollis said:

To be honest, there are already threads to lower Dragic, Duncan, Carmelo, Howard, and Ibaka. 

True. I even started the Dwight Howard thread lol. He's getting an 84, Dragic an 82, Melo an 87, Duncan an 83, and the Ibaka thread was never tallied as far as I can tell. Lots of bullshit in that thread.

So part of why I'm annoyed is unfounded, but those threads have sat for more than a month with nothing happening. After a while we'll forget what's meant to be happening with the ratings, probably even Walt too who does the hard work. Their old ratings are still their ratings. Some might need a whole new rating thread by the time they finally get their update.

We really  need someone to go through and delete threads or move them once someone is completed. It would help a lot.

[Walt Frazier]

Mar 13, 2016 0:44:09 GMT Kevin Hollis said:

Mar 13, 2016 0:42:35 GMT Alex English said:

True. I even started the Dwight Howard thread lol. He's getting an 84, Dragic an 82, Melo an 87, Duncan an 83, and the Ibaka thread was never tallied as far as I can tell. Lots of bullshit in that thread.

So part of why I'm annoyed is unfounded, but those threads have sat for more than a month with nothing happening. After a while we'll forget what's meant to be happening with the ratings, probably even Walt too who does the hard work. Their old ratings are still their ratings. Some might need a whole new rating thread by the time they finally get their update.

We really  need someone to go through and delete threads or move them once someone is completed. It would help a lot.

Ian Noble

It's not just us who thinks this would be a good idea!

[Kevin Hollis]

I just think it would help everyone. That way you know who is open to voting on etc. have a folder for voting, one for in pending processing changes and the last for complete, which we have in a sense

[Ian Noble]

Mar 13, 2016 3:19:16 GMT Walt Frazier said:

Mar 13, 2016 0:44:09 GMT Kevin Hollis said:

We really  need someone to go through and delete threads or move them once someone is completed. It would help a lot.

Ian Noble

It's not just us who thinks this would be a good idea!

I've archived all of the 2014/15 Season threads.

Do you want to Ian Noble tag me in threads that need archiving from now on? I'll try and give you permission to do it also, but Proboards permissions are a tricky thing to figure out!