Bobcats - Mavericks

[Lucas Lutkus]

Bobcats Trades:
75 C- Byron Mullens $1,288,200 | $2,253,062 | $3,293,976

Mavericks Trades:
67 PF- Josh Powell $1,050,000 (*1,25=1,312,500)
2014 1st

I'm not sure if i'm doing this 125% rule right because i suck at math, but i believe that this trade works under the 125% rule.

I accept, we hate giving up on Mullens, really, i HATE it, since i began being the GM of the bobcats, i kind of really turned a bobcat fan and really started to like the Bobcats players and other players that i got on trades like Kirk Hinrich and Zaza Pachulia, Byron Mullens became one of my favorites and i really expected to hold him longer, but after researching some of the 2014 draft names, i've decided to get the most picks as possible and giving up on a young and developing Mullens seems to be the only way to get another pick. I hate doing this trade, but it's better for me and it's better for Mullens who's going to a contendership team. It's weird to see someone getting emotional about fictional players, but i love being part of this league and i really like all of my players.

[Lucas Lutkus]

Oh, that deppends on Mavs cutting Sundiata Gaines and signing Josh Powell...

[Danny Longley]

This is pending the Josh Powell signing, but Mavs accept if that goes through. Byron is definitely just overachieving right now even with just 9 and 5, but in Charlotte IRL, he's got a team willing to play him and give him a chance to get his game together. that and the fact that he's locked up for 3 years cheap makes a big that I want. Plus I think I have enough young talent and Dirk should still be solid so I think losing a 2014 pick wouldn't be too bad.

[Ian Noble]

Dallas set out with a vision to jettison his ageing talent for youth and rebuild. Somehow that's meant trading away both this year and next year's 1st Rounders and in this deal he's overvaluing Mullens anyway. So far Dallas has acquired only one youthful guy with the potential to be an All Star in MarShon Brooks, so moving yet another 1st Rounder for a sub-par big man from real-life's worst regular season team doesn't really sell it to me.

I reject.

[Andrei Kirilenko]

^ agree with Boston. Mullins has been in the league for 3 seasons and has been extremely disappointing.

I reject.

[Danny Longley]

Jun 23, 2012 10:49:34 GMT Ian Noble said:

Dallas set out with a vision to jettison his ageing talent for youth and rebuild. Somehow that's meant trading away both this year and next year's 1st Rounders and in this deal he's overvaluing Mullens anyway. So far Dallas has acquired only one youthful guy with the potential to be an All Star in MarShon Brooks, so moving yet another 1st Rounder for a sub-par big man from real-life's worst regular season team doesn't really sell it to me.

I reject.

I said I would get younger, And while I did say early on that I would not likely have title hopes, I found reason to believe otherwise quite early on. Now, for that comment about All-star potential, Well of course they're just lying there for the taking and definitely in exchange for a bunch of veterans nearing retirement. If you're going to sum up what I've done to that paragraph, that's rather insulting.

The average age of the players I shipped out lies around 30. 30.2 if you want to get exact. The average age of the players (that I consider important to the team) I got in return lies around 26. That number is spiked by the veteran trio of Stephen Jackson,Luke Ridnour and Jarrett Jack.These players are already arguably as productive as the players I shipped out and have the potential to grow past their level.

You mention that I've shipped out multiple picks, that is true. I've shipped my 2012 and 2013. But if you're going to get at me for throwing those picks, Then you should at least bring up the fact that I still have at least one 1st-Rounder in each draft.

Jun 23, 2012 11:36:49 GMT Andrei Kirilenko said:

^ agree with Boston. Mullins has been in the league for 3 seasons and has been extremely disappointing.

I reject.

He's a big. A 23 Year-old big. When he was drafted, he was pegged a project. In his first two years, he played for OKC, while they are indeed a young team, they did the exact same thing to Cole Aldrich. For some reason, Ibaka is the only big that they actually took time to develop.

Zach Randolph, Boris Diaw, David West, Kendrick Perkins. You know what they all have in common? They all late-1st round big-men that couldn't play for shit in their first two seasons. You know what changed? They got PT. Now, I'm not saying that Mullens is sure to be as productive as these guys, but that's a decent trend to follow. As long as he doesn't get Josh Boone'd, he'd be a solid guy to get in return for a 1st. He's a 23 year-old developing big-man that's worth a spot to develop. He's actually shown signs that he's not a complete bust. Now, I project my 2014 1st to be 18-26, since that would be the last year that Dirk is under contract. If I get a guy like Mullens for a pick in that range, I'd be damn happy.

I could sit here and tell you why I think you're wrong Boston(I really do want to. - especially about the Minny Trade), But I'll save that for an interview thread that I might make some time later on.

[Aubrey Graham]

I reject, at the end of the day Byron's value does not equal a future 1st round pick.

[Andrei Kirilenko]

Jun 23, 2012 14:17:48 GMT Danny Longley said:

Jun 23, 2012 10:49:34 GMT Ian Noble said:

Dallas set out with a vision to jettison his ageing talent for youth and rebuild. Somehow that's meant trading away both this year and next year's 1st Rounders and in this deal he's overvaluing Mullens anyway. So far Dallas has acquired only one youthful guy with the potential to be an All Star in MarShon Brooks, so moving yet another 1st Rounder for a sub-par big man from real-life's worst regular season team doesn't really sell it to me.

I reject.

I said I would get younger, And while I did say early on that I would not likely have title hopes, I found reason to believe otherwise quite early on. Now, for that comment about All-star potential, Well of course they're just lying there for the taking and definitely in exchange for a bunch of veterans nearing retirement. If you're going to sum up what I've done to that paragraph, that's rather insulting.

The average age of the players I shipped out lies around 30. 30.2 if you want to get exact. The average age of the players (that I consider important to the team) I got in return lies around 26. That number is spiked by the veteran trio of Stephen Jackson,Luke Ridnour and Jarrett Jack.These players are already arguably as productive as the players I shipped out and have the potential to grow past their level.

You mention that I've shipped out multiple picks, that is true. I've shipped my 2012 and 2013. But if you're going to get at me for throwing those picks, Then you should at least bring up the fact that I still have at least one 1st-Rounder in each draft.

Jun 23, 2012 11:36:49 GMT Andrei Kirilenko said:

^ agree with Boston. Mullins has been in the league for 3 seasons and has been extremely disappointing.

I reject.

He's a big. A 23 Year-old big. When he was drafted, he was pegged a project. In his first two years, he played for OKC, while they are indeed a young team, they did the exact same thing to Cole Aldrich. For some reason, Ibaka is the only big that they actually took time to develop.

Zach Randolph, Boris Diaw, David West, Kendrick Perkins. You know what they all have in common? They all late-1st round big-men that couldn't play for shit in their first two seasons. You know what changed? They got PT. Now, I'm not saying that Mullens is sure to be as productive as these guys, but that's a decent trend to follow. As long as he doesn't get Josh Boone'd, he'd be a solid guy to get in return for a 1st. He's a 23 year-old developing big-man that's worth a spot to develop. He's actually shown signs that he's not a complete bust. Now, I project my 2014 1st to be 18-26, since that would be the last year that Dirk is under contract. If I get a guy like Mullens for a pick in that range, I'd be damn happy.

I could sit here and tell you why I think you're wrong Boston(I really do want to. - especially about the Minny Trade), But I'll save that for an interview thread that I might make some time later on.

I'll change my vote to an accept. You've obviously thought about this a lot, and if you feel this highly about Mullens, then it is wrong for me to not let you trade for him.

[Walt Frazier]

I need clarification from Ian/Boston about something before I vote.

With the new rule, do you mean only teams' OWN 1st rounders...or if, like Dallas says, he has other 1sts for both years still, is he able to move this pick?

Or also, did the rule go into effect after this trade was posted and it doesn't apply?

[Ian Noble]

The rule will not apply to this trade because the trade was submitted before I updated.

Also I suppose it's a point for discussion whether you can trade all your OWN picks if you have other team picks, but I'd lean toward the rule being based on your own picks - just because otherwise it gets a little tricky to administrate from my POV.

[Danny Longley]

Jun 23, 2012 21:34:29 GMT Aubrey Graham said:

I reject, at the end of the day Byron's value does not equal a future 1st round pick.

Makes me rather curious as to how you'd put a value on your future firsts. Cause if I were looking for a big in the 16-30 range, I sure as hell wouldn't expect him to contribute immediately. Heck, in this case, he's even proven that he's no complete bust with a 10/5 season under his belt.

Byron is 23 years old. When he was drafted at 21, he was raw as this chicken.

If you're seriously going to rag on him for his time on OKC, I'm just going to have to scratch my head cause that just seems wrong. He didn't even get a chance to try for minutes in his 2nd year, with Perkins and Aldrich added to the roster. He got his chance to play in Charlotte, he doesn't have much competition for the 5 and now, he's going to get a full training camp to put a clamp on that spot. He's constantly working on his game and even passed up a contract in Europe to work with his teammates in OKC before being traded to Charlotte.

Work Ethic, Upside and some proven NBA production. For a 23 year-old project center that's likely the caliber you'd get out of the lottery range, could you really ask for more?

[Walt Frazier]

I've gotta unfortunately reject also. I'm not sold on Mullens, I know Dallas you seem to be, but I think he's a guy with talent but maybe not THAT much talent. Plus, while you still have/will have Dirk, you have no one else over 80 on your team anymore. I'm less willing to have your team w/o that 1st in 3 years...it could be a pretty good pick if a couple guys don't develop the way you would like.

I just don't see Mullens worth a 1st, especially one that is now at least less likely to be a really late pick.

[Mike Krzyzewski]

Guys, I don't have a horse in the race here but I probably watched more of Mully last season than everyone here combined since I saw almost every one of his games. My personal opinion...

Mullens came to the Bobcats as a magic trick from Rich Cho, the GM of the Bobcats. Mullens was the #24 pick overall just 2 years ago and Cho dealt a future 2nd rounder for him. As a Bobcats fan, he was one of our top 4 biggest bright spots going forward.

He averaged about 10 points, 5 boards, 1 assist, 1 block per game with the Bobcats this season in only 22 minutes a game. Separate from his stats, I can tell you he played well this year and is definitely a young player who is going up, not down.

I guess my point is that his value IRL has really fluctuated in only 2 short seasons. He was drafted #24 in the 1st round, then traded for next to nothing, then he had a promising season.

I personally believe he is worth a mid to late 1st round pick (#20-#30) in the 2013 or 2014 draft (definitely not worth it in this upcoming draft). 7 Foot guys are hard to come by anywhere and he is relatively athletic as well. He should get plenty of opportunity to grow with the young Bobcats squad.

Just my 2 cents.

[Lucas Lutkus]

Again with this 1st rounder value......

So let's change this trade:

Bobcats Trade:
DAL 2009 1st

Mavs Trade:
DAL 2014 1st
Josh Powell

Now it's a first for another first, a 2009 1st is worth a 2014 1st? I think so...

But seriously guys, what is worth a first rounder for you? I've tried a lot of trades for 1sts and almost every one of them there was people saying 'it's not worth a 1st'. DAMN! I trade Nick Young for Cavs 2014 1st, isn't Mullens a better prospect/player then Young? I think so! Isn't Mullens worth a 1st? It doesn't appear like it.

You guys take it way too personal, look:
'I'm not sold on Mullens, I know Dallas you seem to be'

Well, it's Dallas doing the trade, it's not something that is going to ruin the Mavs franchise or is going to make his team a LOT worse. There's nothing to reject here IMO, Mullens was a late-1st that showed incredible improvement last season and next season is going to get starter minutes to improve even more, i can't see how he's not worth a 2014 1st pick.

If a big man who can shoot in the mid range, has only 23 and a low salary isn't worth a 2014 1st pick i'm going to try trading Kemba Walker for a 2014 1st and i'm afraid that even Kemba Walker isn't going to be worth it!

[Lucas Lutkus]

Forgot to add about 'it's not something that would be done IRL', well:

The Chicago Bulls traded Tyrus Thomas to the Charlotte Bobcats for Flip Murray, Acie Law and a 2016 first-round draft choice.

Tyrus was shit with a huge contract when he played in the Bulls when the trade was made, Flip Murray for Thomas would be fair.

Now i ask you, is Tyrus Thomas with his huge contract worth 2 expiring players and a 2016 1st rounder? Well, in D5 don't, in NBA is...

This isn't your trades and this isn't ruining anyone out there, there's no reason to reject it.

If you don't like Mullens, it's personal, Dallas like Mullens like Kings loves Brooks, so why don't let Dallas have him? He's going to be stronger and is going to give a distant pick that isn't hurting him so much

[Lucas Lutkus]

Jun 24, 2012 20:13:25 GMT Walt Frazier said:

I just don't see Mullens worth a 1st, especially one that is now at least less likely to be a really late pick.

What if we trade it for SAS 2014 1st which Dallas also owns?

[Deleted]

Jun 24, 2012 21:21:30 GMT Lucas Lutkus said:

If you don't like Mullens, it's personal, Dallas like Mullens like Kings loves Brooks, so why don't let Dallas have him? He's going to be stronger and is going to give a distant pick that isn't hurting him so much

Don't even start on that whole "Oh Minny cheated" thing again. Not only are the two transactions not comparable, but you are just saying that to try to get under Minny's skin.

[Marcelo Oliveira]

this 1st round pick thing is hard to put value, there are players who are drafted in the 1st round that don't even deserve to play in the NBA.
I prefer to have a player who is already known in the NBA and is at least decent than a pick that shoudnt get any higher like mavs one, but thats my opinion (as you can see I traded all my 1st rounds)

[Deleted]

Jun 24, 2012 21:31:12 GMT Lucas Lutkus said:

Jun 24, 2012 20:13:25 GMT Walt Frazier said:

I just don't see Mullens worth a 1st, especially one that is now at least less likely to be a really late pick.

What if we trade it for SAS 2014 1st which Dallas also owns?

I have never seen Mullen play, but if Dallas likes him then I am all for him being a Maverick. However, I hope people understand these picks are 3 drafts away. A lot of things can change on a team, which I think you ^{Charlotte Hornets} understand. That is all Minny is saying, maybe this pick turns out to be #1? For example, a trade occurred in 1997 in which the Grizzles traded the Pistons their 2003 1st for Otis Thorpe. That pick ended up being the 2nd pick in the draft, and Detroit made the famous mistake of taking Darko over Melo, Bosh, and Wade.

I really don't think we should be allowed to trade 2014 1st's, in fact I've never seen a league that lets team trade 1sts so far down the road, but teams need to be careful about trading those picks. Mullens might be worth a late 1st, but what if something happens and Dallas ends up being a bad team and winning the draft lottery? Then ole Lucas here looks like a genius, which I don't think he is.

[Lucas Lutkus]

Jun 24, 2012 21:43:40 GMT Vlade Divac said:

Then ole Lucas here looks like a genius, which I don't think he is.

Thanks man hahahahaha ;D

About the rest, well, it's a risk that a team can take. If he's trading his 2014 1st is because he thinks that in 2014 his team would still be strong by them.

Raptors for example gave you his 2012 1st rounder because he was building a contender team, he changed his plans and you came out winning a lot with this, it was a risk he took, everybody considered his 2012 1st as a late-1st because of the team he was building and now you're going to get a possible lottery pick. It was a risk, like Dallas trading his 2014 1st is...

[Lucas Lutkus]

Jun 24, 2012 21:34:09 GMT Vlade Divac said:

Jun 24, 2012 21:21:30 GMT Lucas Lutkus said:

If you don't like Mullens, it's personal, Dallas like Mullens like Kings loves Brooks, so why don't let Dallas have him? He's going to be stronger and is going to give a distant pick that isn't hurting him so much

Don't even start on that whole "Oh Minny cheated" thing again. Not only are the two transactions not comparable, but you are just saying that to try to get under Minny's skin.

I think i said it wrong, my english is not perfect, what i meant is:

Like you love Aaron Brooks and he's untradeable to you and you did everything you could to sign him, Dallas likes Byron Mullens a lot and he wants him a lot to be a great addition for this team.

I never said that Minny cheated, not now and not even in the trade of you and him, stop putting words in my mouth man...

[Deleted]

Jun 24, 2012 22:24:28 GMT Lucas Lutkus said:

Jun 24, 2012 21:43:40 GMT Vlade Divac said:

Then ole Lucas here looks like a genius, which I don't think he is.

Thanks man hahahahaha ;D

About the rest, well, it's a risk that a team can take. If he's trading his 2014 1st is because he thinks that in 2014 his team would still be strong by them.

Well in my opinion, as well as the rest of the TC (particularly MIN), too many teams are banking on "being good." A lot of teams think they will be good in a few years, well only 16 can make the playoffs. That means 14 will be in the lottery and ANY lottery pick has a chance to be something special. The TC is designed to protect franchises, and this is an big issue that everyone needs to understand.

Jun 24, 2012 22:24:28 GMT Lucas Lutkus said:

Raptors for example gave you his 2012 1st rounder because he was building a contender team, he changed his plans and you came out winning a lot with this, it was a risk he took, everybody considered his 2012 1st as a late-1st because of the team he was building and now you're going to get a possible lottery pick. It was a risk, like Dallas trading his 2014 1st is...

I got the Raptors pick via OKC in the Cousins/Ibaka deal. This is a perfect illustration of you trying to change the facts to benefit your team, so keep on making nonfactual and out of context comparisons.

[Deleted]

Jun 24, 2012 22:27:51 GMT Lucas Lutkus said:

Jun 24, 2012 21:34:09 GMT Vlade Divac said:

Don't even start on that whole "Oh Minny cheated" thing again. Not only are the two transactions not comparable, but you are just saying that to try to get under Minny's skin.

I think i said it wrong, my english is not perfect, what i meant is:

Like you love Aaron Brooks and he's untradeable to you and you did everything you could to sign him, Dallas likes Byron Mullens a lot and he wants him a lot to be a great addition for this team.

I never said that Minny cheated, not now and not even in the trade of you and him, stop putting words in my mouth man...

I would trade Brooks if the right offer came around, funny thing is I have no received a single trade offer for him.

And okay, I believe you when you say you misstated what you were trying to say, just making sure.

[Marcelo Oliveira]

Jun 24, 2012 22:36:00 GMT Vlade Divac said:

Jun 24, 2012 22:27:51 GMT Lucas Lutkus said:

I think i said it wrong, my english is not perfect, what i meant is:

Like you love Aaron Brooks and he's untradeable to you and you did everything you could to sign him, Dallas likes Byron Mullens a lot and he wants him a lot to be a great addition for this team.

I never said that Minny cheated, not now and not even in the trade of you and him, stop putting words in my mouth man...

I would trade Brooks if the right offer came around, funny thing is I have no received a single trade offer for him.

And okay, I believe you when you say you misstated what you were trying to say, just making sure.

lol how come you expect to receive an offer for a player that u listed as untouchable in ur trade block? maybe if u change that to "can be traded if the right offer comes around" you will receive offers

[Deleted]

Jun 24, 2012 22:39:47 GMT Marcelo Oliveira said:

Jun 24, 2012 22:36:00 GMT Vlade Divac said:

I would trade Brooks if the right offer came around, funny thing is I have no received a single trade offer for him.

And okay, I believe you when you say you misstated what you were trying to say, just making sure.

lol how come you expect to receive an offer for a player that u listed as untouchable in ur trade block? maybe if u change that to "can be traded if the right offer comes around" you will receive offers

Good point. I just put him as untouchable because I don't think anyone values him as much as I do. If Miami offers me Lebron for Brooks, I am obviously going to take Lebron

[Walt Frazier]

Jun 24, 2012 22:24:28 GMT Lucas Lutkus said:

About the rest, well, it's a risk that a team can take. If he's trading his 2014 1st is because he thinks that in 2014 his team would still be strong by them.

Raptors for example gave you his 2012 1st rounder because he was building a contender team, he changed his plans and you came out winning a lot with this, it was a risk he took, everybody considered his 2012 1st as a late-1st because of the team he was building and now you're going to get a possible lottery pick. It was a risk, like Dallas trading his 2014 1st is...

That bold part there is exactly why we need to be super careful with future picks especially. 2/3 years in a sim league is a LOT of time for anything to happen really.

[Walt Frazier]

Jun 24, 2012 21:09:32 GMT Lucas Lutkus said:

Again with this 1st rounder value......

So let's change this trade:

Bobcats Trade:
DAL 2009 1st

Mavs Trade:
DAL 2014 1st
Josh Powell

Now it's a first for another first, a 2009 1st is worth a 2014 1st? I think so...

First of all, with the Kemba thing you also said, you know everyone would rather have Kemba than a 2014 1st right now, so that's just being silly.

As for this block that I quoted...it's just faulty logic. Using your logic...


Timberwolves Trade:
Darko Milicic (2nd overall pick!)

Bobcats Trade:
Kemba Walker (9th overall pick!)


Hmm, you actually have to add to this trade, since Darko was drafted higher in a great class.

As for Mullens specifically, dude shot 42.5% as a big man, and he only shot 23.5% from 3pt too, so he wasn't really good anywhere. He got PT on a shitty ass team.

That shitty ass team has a project Center in Biyombo they are gonna give minutes to, and they are going to draft a very awesome PF in Thomas Robinson IRL to play PF. Mullens is headed to the bench, he couldn't carve out any more than 22.5mpg on one of the worst teams in history, he's more likely to get LESS minutes with Biyombo developing more and Robinson on the team than he is to get more minutes.

[Deleted]

And correct me if I am wrong, but Josh Powell isn't a bum is he?

[Walt Frazier]

Jun 25, 2012 0:57:43 GMT Vlade Divac said:

And correct me if I am wrong, but Josh Powell isn't a bum is he?

He didn't play in the NBA this season.

Last season he put up 4 points, 2.5 rebounds on 45% shooting. He'll be 30 after the first 2 months or so of this upcoming NBA season too so not like there's a big potential thing there.

He's a bum.

[Deleted]

He played for the Lakers right? I thought he had a chance to be good.