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Post by Bryan Colangelo on Dec 24, 2015 16:50:23 GMT
Current: 84
Asking: 86
DeMar is quietly putting up a decent season. 22 ppgs, 4.0 Ast, 4.4 Reb, shooting 44.6% from the field. Him and Lowry have been a great combo for the Raptors. Currently DeMar is putting up his best statistical season of his career as well.
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Dec 24, 2015 16:55:59 GMT
85
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Post by James Kay on Dec 24, 2015 17:03:02 GMT
85
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2015 17:09:09 GMT
Demar should be rated higher than Lowry.
87
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Kevin Hollis
Former Thunder GM for 7 years
All Star
Posts: 2,838 
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Post by Kevin Hollis on Dec 24, 2015 17:18:30 GMT
84
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Post by Bryan Colangelo on Dec 24, 2015 17:28:01 GMT
DeMar is decent, but he's no 85+. I feel like in some threads people point out all these flaws.. ie Lillard can't be rated higher because he doesn't play defense, but then ignore all the flaws in a guy like DeMar, and he is DEFINITELY flawed I can't go higher than 84  |
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Post by Walt Frazier on Dec 24, 2015 17:28:53 GMT
I may use DeMar as a comp for CJ McCollum when I put that thread up, or make a case for him. Just noticed their numbers are fairly similar right now, DeMar has some advantages but McCollum beats him elsewhere. But, let's focus on DeMar first...
First - no question DeMar is having a better year than last year. FG% up significantly, FT very slightly up, assists up about .5 a game, points up 2 a game (mostly b/c his FG% is up, though also getting to the line even more, good for him)
Second - I'd actually like to compare to two seasons ago. Have a look, see if he's really developed since he got his rating into the 84 range.
Cat - 2015 vs 2013
PPG - 22.7 vs 22.7
RPG - 4.4 vs 4.3
APG - 4.0 vs 4.0
STL - 1.0 vs 1.1
BPG - 0.3 vs 0.4
FG% - 44.6 vs 42.9
3P% - 25.0 vs 30.5
FT% - 84.2 vs 82.4
So, great. He's improved as a FT shooter, maybe, slightly? I'm willing to give him credit but realize, those 2% points he's improved there affect only 10% of one OVERALL Rating point.
FG% is up, 1.7%. BUT
3P% is down, 5.5%.
So, if you want to give him credit for the FG and minor FT% boosts, you're going to have to take away with his 3P%. I can say those 5% hurt just as much as the 1.7% FG and 1.8% FT increases, on OVR points.
Super incredibly small REB increase but an equal (though weighted more) STL decrease, plus BLK decrease.
I dunno guys.
He's fine at an 84, maybe I'd go 85. That 3pt REALLY hurts, there are a LOT of rating points to be used on a guy that he loses by shooting 25%, whereas a guy like McCollum up over 40% needs to have a LOT more points available to use there.
He's a good player, I'm just not convinced he's made much of an OVR improvement here. BUT, I may not have given him full credit for his game a couple years ago, so now that's he's done it longer, albeit with some ups and downs depending on the category, I'll bump him up slightly for consistency.
I'll put an 85 in.
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Deleted
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Nov 30, 2024 20:56:20 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2015 17:37:15 GMT
I'm going to say that 84 was a bit low for Demar whenever he got that increase... Those numbers scream 85+ to me, and he looks so good when he plays no one can stop him. He is the Dwyane Wade of the Toronto Raptors... |
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Post by Walt Frazier on Dec 24, 2015 17:50:46 GMT
I'm going to say that 84 was a bit low for Demar whenever he got that increase... Those numbers scream 85+ to me, and he looks so good when he plays no one can stop him. He is the Dwyane Wade of the Toronto Raptors... Shit you're right, DWade of Canada. Lowering my vote to an 81 :-p just playin' |
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Deleted
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Nov 30, 2024 20:56:20 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2015 17:51:32 GMT
Wade's been an 87 for awhile, just wondering what he does that Demar doesn't.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Dec 24, 2015 17:55:12 GMT
Wade's been an 87 for awhile, just wondering what he does that Demar doesn't. Truth? - He won a Ring in his younger days and more later.
- He's "DWade"
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Deleted
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Nov 30, 2024 20:56:20 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2015 17:56:22 GMT
Wade's been an 87 for awhile, just wondering what he does that Demar doesn't. Truth? - He won a Ring in his younger days and more later.
- He's "DWade"
So if I put up a stock watch thread on Dwade you'd vote 85? |
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Post by James Kay on Dec 24, 2015 18:09:54 GMT
Truth? - He won a Ring in his younger days and more later.
- He's "DWade"
So if I put up a stock watch thread on Dwade you'd vote 85? I would |
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Dec 24, 2015 19:15:54 GMT
Wade's needed lowered for a while. Anyways Demar is good. Thats it. He's just good. Not great, not amazing. Just good. No change 84.
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Post by Alex English on Dec 24, 2015 19:17:28 GMT
I'm going to go with an 85. I mostly agree with Josh. DeMar is having the best season of his career, and he should be an All-Star again, but like Josh said, his game is fundamentally flawed.
He's like a throwback player from the 90s, or even earlier. If there was no three point line in the NBA then DeRozan would be a top 5 player in the league, but there is, and DeMar can't play beyond it. He's one of the few non-post players where it's actually more efficient for him to shoot twos than threes.
It's pretty impressive how good he is at slashing to the rim considering defenses can sag off him and give him the space to shoot since he's not a threat, and his mid-range game is really reliable, but he's fundamentally limited by the things he can't do. Especially since the current NBA relies on three point shooting more than ever. DeRozan is also just an average rebounder and playmaker as well, so it's not like he makes up for it in other areas.
I really don't see how it's possible for the Raptors to win a championship with DeRozan playing such a prominent role. The team would need a PG, SF, and a stretch PF that could all shoot threes extremely well to hide DeMar's inability there.
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Post by Alex English on Dec 24, 2015 19:21:30 GMT
Demar should be rated higher than Lowry. 87 No way. Lowry is absolutely the Raptors best player. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2015 20:05:10 GMT
I'm going to go with an 85. I mostly agree with Josh. DeMar is having the best season of his career, and he should be an All-Star again, but like Josh said, his game is fundamentally flawed. He's like a throwback player from the 90s, or even earlier. If there was no three point line in the NBA then DeRozan would be a top 5 player in the league, but there is, and DeMar can't play beyond it. He's one of the few non-post players where it's actually more efficient for him to shoot twos than threes. It's pretty impressive how good he is at slashing to the rim considering defenses can sag off him and give him the space to shoot since he's not a threat, and his mid-range game is really reliable, but he's fundamentally limited by the things he can't do. Especially since the current NBA relies on three point shooting more than ever. DeRozan is also just an average rebounder and playmaker as well, so it's not like he makes up for it in other areas. I really don't see how it's possible for the Raptors to win a championship with DeRozan playing such a prominent role. The team would need a PG, SF, and a stretch PF that could all shoot threes extremely well to hide DeMar's inability there. But individual ratings wise you're looking at a player that is top 5 in the league at almost everything on offense except for just 1 category... |
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Post by Alex English on Dec 24, 2015 22:34:23 GMT
But individual ratings wise you're looking at a player that is top 5 in the league at almost everything on offense except for just 1 category... I don't think he's a top 5 player inside the three point line. That isn't what I meant. I was saying if there was no three point line, the game would be different. Spreading the floor with shooters wouldn't really be important. The most valuable skill for guards would now be slashing to the rim. Guys like Curry or Klay Thompson would be way less valuable. Kyle Korver would be useless. Then guys like DeRozan, Harden and Westbrook would be even better, and guys like Jeremy Lin or Leandro Barbosa might be All-Stars. |
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Dec 24, 2015 23:36:37 GMT
I think even if there weren't a three point line you'd still want to guard Korver.
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Post by Alex English on Dec 25, 2015 1:53:19 GMT
I think even if there weren't a three point line you'd still want to guard Korver. Well sure, but I think if there weren't a three point line, Kyle Korver wouldn't be on the floor, maybe not even on the team. |
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Dec 25, 2015 2:33:33 GMT
I think even if there weren't a three point line you'd still want to guard Korver. Well sure, but I think if there weren't a three point line, Kyle Korver wouldn't be on the floor, maybe not even on the team. I'm just waiting on this 3 point shooting fad to end. |
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Post by Alex English on Dec 25, 2015 2:47:17 GMT
Well sure, but I think if there weren't a three point line, Kyle Korver wouldn't be on the floor, maybe not even on the team. I'm just waiting on this 3 point shooting fad to end. It's no fad, it's math. I think the role of three point shooting will get bigger if anything. Especially since teams usually copy the champions a little bit. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2015 2:47:42 GMT
I'm just waiting on this 3 point shooting fad to end. It's no fad, it's math. I think the role of three point shooting will get bigger if anything. Especially since teams usually copy the champions a little bit. I fucking hate the 3 point line. It ruined basketball. And is currently ruining it even more. |
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Dec 25, 2015 4:02:38 GMT
I'm just waiting on this 3 point shooting fad to end. It's no fad, it's math. I think the role of three point shooting will get bigger if anything. Especially since teams usually copy the champions a little bit. I was making a joke Alex. |
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Dec 25, 2015 4:05:35 GMT
The main thing that has caused the 3 point shooting stretch is that players in the post are less effective now because you can sag back and double on them. There is a lot less one on one in the post. This progression is because they made zone legal in the NBA. For the longest time you couldn't sag too far back on bad shooters because it was a foul.
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Post by Alex English on Dec 25, 2015 4:33:06 GMT
I was making a joke Alex.  |
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Post by Kareem Abdul-Jabbar on Dec 25, 2015 23:19:06 GMT
85 ^^
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Post by James Kay on Jan 20, 2016 18:33:34 GMT
If this vote is still open, I'd like to amend my rating to an 86. Small change from my previous of 85 but he gets to the line sooo often.
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Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on Jan 20, 2016 22:56:30 GMT
Almost all his numbers went up but I am not sure if he really improves.
85.
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Post by Brandon Roy on Jan 21, 2016 0:56:30 GMT
86... I think he's the 3rd best SG right now..
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