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Post by Bryan Colangelo on Jul 4, 2015 3:28:06 GMT
To Thunder
74| K. Caldwell-Pope - $1,899,200 - $1,949,443 - $2,001,290
61| Nando De Colo - $603,950 - $670,385
1st rounder 2016 - Toronto
2nd rounder 2018 - Toronto
Total salary: 2,503,150
To Raptors
86| Paul Millsap - $15,401,250 - $13,875,000 - $12,500,000
75| Jared Dudley - $4,250,000
total salary: 19,651,250
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Post by Bryan Colangelo on Jul 4, 2015 3:29:41 GMT
I accept, been looking for. PF. I gave up some great trade chips for a guy who could opt out at the end of the year. I hope he doesn't but I finally had a solid team Lowry - Demar - Krover - Millsap - Hibbert
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Post by James Kay on Jul 4, 2015 3:31:44 GMT
Wow great great trade for TOR in my opinion. But why does OKC do this ? Are they making room for another FA signing? Will they be able to match Millsaps value at 15 mill?
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Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on Jul 4, 2015 3:33:36 GMT
OKC have something under their sleeves.
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Post by Ian Noble on Jul 4, 2015 13:12:17 GMT
I'm definitely going to need to hear OKC explain themselves out of the insane asylum on this one.
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Kevin Hollis
Former Thunder GM for 7 years
All Star
Posts: 2,838 
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Post by Kevin Hollis on Jul 4, 2015 14:49:37 GMT
This move is all about about cap space cutting for me (salary will be at 49,452,043 giving me 17.64 mil to work with if the trade is passed). I have my eye on a free agent that I think I should be able to acquire this off-season. Millsap also has an option to sign out next year, which could crush my team if he does opt. I would then, if Cousins resigns, have three huge contracts to deal with next season in Millsap, Durant, and Cousins (offered contract has a player option next year, which I assume he would exercise). With the implementation of a hard cap coming and the situation described above, I would rather sign a key free agent in this year's off season then have to worry about Millsap next year (3 year 59 mil - IRL). With Durant and Cousins being much younger, I wouldn't be able to justify giving Millsap the kind of money he is receiving irl.
I receive KCP in return and I believe he will develop into a solid NBA player in the coming years. Also, Millsap is in his later years and will start to decline; whereas, the crux of my team is much younger (redundant, I know). This trade gives me the cap space I need to push for my desired free agent and gives me value that I can package with my current assets to use for future trades.
This trade is a risk if I don't sign the free agent I want, but I am willing to take that risk as the pros outweigh the cons in the years to come.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 30, 2024 8:58:26 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2015 14:55:49 GMT
I love this trade for two reasons: #1: Zach Randolph cannot go back to his old team! @dannylongley #2: OKC is giving love to my boy KCP!  I hope you turn out to be right, Mr. Hollis, because I drafted KCP over the Greek Freak in this league. |
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Post by Sam Bowie on Jul 4, 2015 16:49:35 GMT
This trade could cost Thunder DeMarcus Cousins...
Trade looks interesting for them but the timing I am not so sure. What I mean is that for Cousins it is more attractive a team with Millsap than a team with youngsters and cap space. And for the FA, Hollis wants it is obviously more attractive a team with Cousins. Like I said, the timing is questionable.
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Kevin Hollis
Former Thunder GM for 7 years
All Star
Posts: 2,838
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Post by Kevin Hollis on Jul 4, 2015 16:55:19 GMT
Because Cousins didn't sign an extension with the Kings IRL with just Rudy Gay on the team>?
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Post by Sam Bowie on Jul 4, 2015 16:59:50 GMT
Because Cousins didn't sign an extension with the Kings IRL with just Rudy Gay on the team>? Cousins' options in D5 are better because we do not have restricted FAs plus what you can offer is the same as every other team with cap space. |
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Kevin Hollis
Former Thunder GM for 7 years
All Star
Posts: 2,838
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Post by Kevin Hollis on Jul 4, 2015 17:04:46 GMT
Except bird right's and more money.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 30, 2024 8:58:26 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2015 17:06:45 GMT
yeah you can offer 6 years if you have bird rights instead of just 5, its like 30 million more guaranteed money
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Post by Sam Bowie on Jul 4, 2015 17:11:05 GMT
Except bird right's and more money. Bird rights only allow you to go over the cap plus the guideline says that the maximum for a 5 years player is supposed to be lower than the rest. Can't remember if you can offer 1 more year with bird rights but that is not going to happen because players are keeping their options open waiting to see what happens with the cap. Realistically, I believe there is one team whose options to land Cousins are very good after this trade if they make the right effort. |
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 30, 2024 8:58:26 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2015 18:05:00 GMT
Except bird right's and more money. Bird rights only allow you to go over the cap plus the guideline says that the maximum for a 5 years player is supposed to be lower than the rest. Can't remember if you can offer 1 more year with bird rights but that is not going to happen because players are keeping their options open waiting to see what happens with the cap. Realistically, I believe there is one team whose options to land Cousins are very good after this trade if they make the right effort. "A player may be re-signed for contracts up to 6 years in length using Bird Rights." No reason Cousins wouldn't sign the 6 year deal for the guaranteed money, Anthony Davis did it and he is way better than cousins. Maybe throw in an option year after 3 years or something. |
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Post by Jay Z on Jul 4, 2015 18:13:23 GMT
Bird rights only allow you to go over the cap plus the guideline says that the maximum for a 5 years player is supposed to be lower than the rest. Can't remember if you can offer 1 more year with bird rights but that is not going to happen because players are keeping their options open waiting to see what happens with the cap. Realistically, I believe there is one team whose options to land Cousins are very good after this trade if they make the right effort. "A player may be re-signed for contracts up to 6 years in length using Bird Rights." No reason Cousins wouldn't sign the 6 year deal for the guaranteed money, Anthony Davis did it and he is way better than cousins. Maybe throw in an option year after 3 years or something. Davis's extension is for next year, and his percentage is based off of whatever next years cap is. He's not hard locked onto any number, any contract numbers you see for Davis are just projections. Just saying that Davis is not leaving any money on the table, situations are not comparable. |
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Kevin Hollis
Former Thunder GM for 7 years
All Star
Posts: 2,838
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Post by Kevin Hollis on Jul 4, 2015 19:43:58 GMT
IF you guys don't like it then reject it.
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Post by Bryan Colangelo on Jul 4, 2015 19:48:01 GMT
Houston and hornets made a trade for Eric Bledsoe this year for pretty much the same deal. I can't see how this gets rejected
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Post by Ian Noble on Jul 4, 2015 19:57:09 GMT
I suppose this is a great way to show you're dedicated to a Power Forward you're pursuing, but I personally think it's an extremely reckless strategy, especially with possibly both Demarcus and Durant expiring next year.
I reject.
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Post by Alex English on Jul 4, 2015 20:13:24 GMT
I gotta reject. KCP won't be good enough and that pick won't be high enough to come close enough to the value of Millsap to make this acceptable to me.
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Post by Alex English on Jul 4, 2015 20:16:47 GMT
Houston and hornets made a trade for Eric Bledsoe this year for pretty much the same deal. I can't see how this gets rejected That trade sent Julius Randle in return for Bledsoe. KCP and a mid/late first has a lot less value than Randle. |
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Kevin Hollis
Former Thunder GM for 7 years
All Star
Posts: 2,838
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Post by Kevin Hollis on Jul 4, 2015 20:18:58 GMT
All good, you guys know how off season etc works better than me.
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Post by Bryan Colangelo on Jul 4, 2015 20:24:24 GMT
So a guy who hasn't played a nba game is automatically better than a guy who has played and has value.
Makes no sense to me. Or is it because hype is better? Like shit man how can I compare trades then to try to make them acceptable
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Post by Alex English on Jul 4, 2015 20:34:05 GMT
So a guy who hasn't played a nba game is automatically better than a guy who has played and has value. Makes no sense to me. Or is it because hype is better? Like shit man how can I compare trades then to try to make them acceptable While I kind of agree with the idea behind the point you are making, I also feel like you are simplifying everything to try and make a stronger argument. Karl-Anthony Towns and Luka Mitrovic both have the same amount of NBA experience. Do they hold the same value in trades? Also KCP has played and shown himself to be average at best. This year he's been an inefficient player putting up 12 points and 3 boards in 31 minutes per game. That's nothing noteworthy. |
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Kevin Hollis
Former Thunder GM for 7 years
All Star
Posts: 2,838
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Post by Kevin Hollis on Jul 4, 2015 20:41:57 GMT
It's all good Alex, no need to explain yourself. Bryan and I can try and make something else work that seems reasonable to the trade committee.
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Post by Bryan Colangelo on Jul 4, 2015 20:54:02 GMT
So a guy who hasn't played a nba game is automatically better than a guy who has played and has value. Makes no sense to me. Or is it because hype is better? Like shit man how can I compare trades then to try to make them acceptable While I kind of agree with the idea behind the point you are making, I also feel like you are simplifying everything to try and make a stronger argument. Karl-Anthony Towns and Luka Mitrovic both have the same amount of NBA experience. Do they hold the same value in trades? Also KCP has played and shown himself to be average at best. This year he's been an inefficient player putting up 12 points and 3 boards in 31 minutes per game. That's nothing noteworthy. I am not comparing those two Alex, I'm comparing a guy who tore his ACL to a guy who's been spot starting with Detroit at SG. I get your example but your argument is basically the hype. No matter how you spin it, you can show me all the stats in the world, it doesn't matter to me. I am not into NBA prospect and March Madness like all you guys here, so how i see it, im comparing a guy who hasn't played a full season to a guy who has. Since my player( KCP) has played nba games but I understood the perception behind Randle and how everyone loves him a pick. He was 3rd overall or something last year. KCP, was 7 - 8th? and automatically hes an okay player who was drafted, what 2 - 3 years ago? Im sorry he's not Kobe right away (and no im not comparing KCP to kobe just making a point). Since I understood the perception behind the Hornets and Houston trade, i agreed to trade a 1st round pick in next year draft along with KCP. My team didn't even have picks to start of with since i joined since the last jackass who ran my team traded them all. 1st round picks don't come falling from the sky and everyone here should know that, but right away a my pick become useless? I thought all 1st rounder picks are meaningful in here. I dont like to rant much but you guys rejected my Al Horford trade and many more. This time I tried my best to relate this trade to others and its still not good enough. I"m sorry if im coming off rude but fuck man this is bullshit. Whats even more nuts, Millsap has a player option for 13 million, is he going to pick it up? I dont think so but i still wanted the chance to have the guy on my team to see how it will perform. |
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Post by Walt Frazier on Jul 5, 2015 3:39:59 GMT
I am going to have to reject as well. Bryan, you are sitting somewhere a few of us have been before, but usually this happens in the Stock Watch.
You simply value a player or two very differently from the majority of the league. Makes your job a little harder no doubt, but I agree the value here for Millsap is not enough and its a questionable trade for OKC at this point in general.
Reject
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Post by Charles Barkley on Jul 5, 2015 10:14:36 GMT
While I kind of agree with the idea behind the point you are making, I also feel like you are simplifying everything to try and make a stronger argument. Karl-Anthony Towns and Luka Mitrovic both have the same amount of NBA experience. Do they hold the same value in trades? Also KCP has played and shown himself to be average at best. This year he's been an inefficient player putting up 12 points and 3 boards in 31 minutes per game. That's nothing noteworthy. I am not comparing those two Alex, I'm comparing a guy who tore his ACL to a guy who's been spot starting with Detroit at SG. I get your example but your argument is basically the hype. No matter how you spin it, you can show me all the stats in the world, it doesn't matter to me. I am not into NBA prospect and March Madness like all you guys here, so how i see it, im comparing a guy who hasn't played a full season to a guy who has. Since my player( KCP) has played nba games but I understood the perception behind Randle and how everyone loves him a pick. He was 3rd overall or something last year. KCP, was 7 - 8th? and automatically hes an okay player who was drafted, what 2 - 3 years ago? Im sorry he's not Kobe right away (and no im not comparing KCP to kobe just making a point). Since I understood the perception behind the Hornets and Houston trade, i agreed to trade a 1st round pick in next year draft along with KCP. My team didn't even have picks to start of with since i joined since the last jackass who ran my team traded them all. 1st round picks don't come falling from the sky and everyone here should know that, but right away a my pick become useless? I thought all 1st rounder picks are meaningful in here. I dont like to rant much but you guys rejected my Al Horford trade and many more. This time I tried my best to relate this trade to others and its still not good enough. I"m sorry if im coming off rude but fuck man this is bullshit. Whats even more nuts, Millsap has a player option for 13 million, is he going to pick it up? I dont think so but i still wanted the chance to have the guy on my team to see how it will perform. Randle broke his leg, not a torn ACL. They are very different injuries. Very different because a bone heals a lot easier than a crucial ligament in the knee. The ACL stabilizes everything in your knee and is tested at every step of the way. A torn ACL causes muscle loss in both the upper and lower portions of the leg. A broken bone in the leg, I believe it was a fracture in the right fibula, which is the small outside bone of the leg, is A LOT easier to come back from than an ACL. The main reason being that it heals easier. The bones go back together, and while your body weight is supported by your leg, it is the small bone. And it also does not effect your ability to twist and cut as well as jump and run. This trade is very different from the Bledsoe-Randle deal. I also received James Young, a prospect I like. In this trade you have Millsap for KCP, De Colo, and some picks. Who knows what will happen to Millsap and if he will stay or leave. Assuming he leaves, I think the value, Millsap on a 1 year for CAP, KCP, De Colo, and some firsts, is solid. And assuming Millsap stays, I think Bryan wins the trade, but I don't think it is enough to reject. The CAP being given away is a huge asset in the deal. GMs in all sports make trades that appear to be lop-sided, but when you realize it was done for salary purposes, the value changes. And, I imagine any suitor for Cousins is now messaging Alex saying things about the direction of the Thunder. The main question here is, can the Thunder fill the cap. If they can fill the cap, it becomes the player he signed, KCP, De Colo, some picks, for Millsap. It is all relative and dependent upon the Thunder and what they can do. It leaves a lot of skepticism among the TC, for the right reasons. But if it were me, I'd say let it ride. Either way, the Thunder are hurt for showing this trade when they did, at least in my opinion. |
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Kevin Hollis
Former Thunder GM for 7 years
All Star
Posts: 2,838
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Post by Kevin Hollis on Jul 5, 2015 17:26:14 GMT
All good. Seems it was rejected and we will get back to the drawing board.
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Toronto Raptors
Charlotte Hornets
Cleveland Cavaliers
Boston Celtics
I hope you turn out to be right, Mr. Hollis, because I drafted KCP over the Greek Freak in this league. 
Atlanta Hawks
Denver Nuggets
Minnesota Timberwolves
