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Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on Feb 16, 2015 6:43:01 GMT
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Post by Walt Frazier on Feb 16, 2015 13:43:33 GMT
I think he's probably in the right range (but maybe the low end of it) but wouldn't hate taking a look at him to see if things are in the right places.
76
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Post by Andrei Kirilenko on Feb 16, 2015 13:45:16 GMT
Since we have to compare Hawks players to Spurs players, he's basically Kawhi Leonard...
77
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Post by Allen Iverson on Feb 16, 2015 14:52:41 GMT
He's fine at 75. Maybe just adjust his attributes to where it should be. #AtlantaHype
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2015 16:50:28 GMT
>Demare Carroll plays kinda decent for half a year on the best team in the league >77
>Hassan Whiteside plays the best anyone has ever played ever for half a year on a shitty team >77
d5 logic
How has Demare Carroll proven his level of performance for longer than Whiteside? He needs to perform this way for at least the rest of the season, and then for the entire next season to be rated properly.
It's only right, the dude has never played this well in his entire career.
Come on guys, lets be consistent.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2015 17:01:36 GMT
>Demare Carroll plays kinda decent for half a year on the best team in the league >77 >Hassan Whiteside plays the best anyone has ever played ever for half a year on a shitty team >77 d5 logic Caroll has been playing in the NBA for a few seasons, improving. Last season in whole he averaged 11ppg 5rpg. Whiteside played a game here and there in the NBA and overseas. NBA game experience is what counts. Nothing else. Maybe after the 2nd half we can rate him higher. I do agree his rating is way low but there's no one player that gets a rating increase as a rookie and just because he is playing great. Personally all the bothering you are doing I would not increase him until the very last rookie and next season sometime. Stop putting the league down and leave if you can accept the rules and decisions of the best league around.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2015 17:03:27 GMT
>Demare Carroll plays kinda decent for half a year on the best team in the league >77 >Hassan Whiteside plays the best anyone has ever played ever for half a year on a shitty team >77 d5 logic Caroll has been playing in the NBA for a few seasons, improving. Last season in whole he averaged 11ppg 5rpg. Whiteside played a game here and there in the NBA and overseas. NBA game experience is what counts. Nothing else. Maybe after the 2nd half we can rate him higher. I do agree his rating is way low but there's no one player that gets a rating increase as a rookie and just because he is playing great. Personally all the bothering you are doing I would not increase him until the very last rookie and next season sometime. Stop putting the league down and leave if you can accept the rules and decisions of the best league around. Sorry that I thought each GM was free to air their opinion and some peoples opinions are better than others. Sorry for trying to improve consistency and point of flaws. Everything should always just stay the same that it is, with no progress ever happening. Personally, you're a pretty spiteful person in how you think things should be done. Just trying to improve the process over here. Doesn't it seem logical that order of increases/decreases should be by how far apart their sim production is from real life production? Shouldn't 59 Whiteside and people like 67 Dieng be getting their increases sooner, while someone who is going to be bumped 1-2 points can wait? I just want realism, logic, and consistency. Are GMs not allowed to call out inconsistency when they see it? If thats the rule, fine. If someone has to produce at the level they are doing for 2 years so that their rating matches their production, fine. My goal is not to be an asshole, but just to see consistency from thread to thread. Of course, thats impossible, and why we vote, but if someone has to wait over a year to see their rating match their production... why is this guy different? Or ANYONE else for that matter? I just don't get it. Call me the asshole for wanting consistency though, thats a good move. Carroll has not performed at a 77 level for over a year. So my vote is a 74. Maybe next year he can be a 77. Edit: main point bolded, would be interested in response from Walt.
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Feb 16, 2015 17:06:18 GMT
76
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2015 17:43:03 GMT
Caroll has been playing in the NBA for a few seasons, improving. Last season in whole he averaged 11ppg 5rpg. Whiteside played a game here and there in the NBA and overseas. NBA game experience is what counts. Nothing else. Maybe after the 2nd half we can rate him higher. I do agree his rating is way low but there's no one player that gets a rating increase as a rookie and just because he is playing great. Personally all the bothering you are doing I would not increase him until the very last rookie and next season sometime. Stop putting the league down and leave if you can accept the rules and decisions of the best league around. Sorry that I thought each GM was free to air their opinion and some peoples opinions are better than others. Sorry for trying to improve consistency and point of flaws. Everything should always just stay the same that it is, with no progress ever happening. Personally, you're a pretty spiteful person in how you think things should be done. Just trying to improve the process over here. Doesn't it seem logical that order of increases/decreases should be by how far apart their sim production is from real life production? Shouldn't 59 Whiteside and people like 67 Dieng be getting their increases sooner, while someone who is going to be bumped 1-2 points can wait? I just want realism, logic, and consistency. Are GMs not allowed to call out inconsistency when they see it? If thats the rule, fine. If someone has to produce at the level they are doing for 2 years so that their rating matches their production, fine. My goal is not to be an asshole, but just to see consistency from thread to thread. Of course, thats impossible, and why we vote, but if someone has to wait over a year to see their rating match their production... why is this guy different? Or ANYONE else for that matter? I just don't get it. Call me the asshole for wanting consistency though, thats a good move. Carroll has not performed at a 77 level for over a year. So my vote is a 74. Maybe next year he can be a 77. Edit: main point bolded, would be interested in response from Walt. Just so you know I do agree that Players with a few or increases or decreases should wait compared to players that are way off. It makes sense. But u have to get Walt on the same page. I'm not against you but when all I see is the same posts I get annoyed. Can't you private message Ian and Walt and have private conversations about it?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2015 18:25:32 GMT
Sorry that I thought each GM was free to air their opinion and some peoples opinions are better than others. Sorry for trying to improve consistency and point of flaws. Everything should always just stay the same that it is, with no progress ever happening. Personally, you're a pretty spiteful person in how you think things should be done. Just trying to improve the process over here. Doesn't it seem logical that order of increases/decreases should be by how far apart their sim production is from real life production? Shouldn't 59 Whiteside and people like 67 Dieng be getting their increases sooner, while someone who is going to be bumped 1-2 points can wait? I just want realism, logic, and consistency. Are GMs not allowed to call out inconsistency when they see it? If thats the rule, fine. If someone has to produce at the level they are doing for 2 years so that their rating matches their production, fine. My goal is not to be an asshole, but just to see consistency from thread to thread. Of course, thats impossible, and why we vote, but if someone has to wait over a year to see their rating match their production... why is this guy different? Or ANYONE else for that matter? I just don't get it. Call me the asshole for wanting consistency though, thats a good move. Carroll has not performed at a 77 level for over a year. So my vote is a 74. Maybe next year he can be a 77. Edit: main point bolded, would be interested in response from Walt. Just so you know I do agree that Players with a few or increases or decreases should wait compared to players that are way off. It makes sense. But u have to get Walt on the same page. I'm not against you but when all I see is the same posts I get annoyed. Can't you private message Ian and Walt and have private conversations about it? I think you would be happy with him just getting a much needed increase...maybe even to 70 until we agree on an average rating and it goes into effect.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2015 18:30:48 GMT
I agree, JR, this should be its own thread, but I shouldn't be the one to make it. Man, to be honest, and as you've pointed out, I don't need to be winning any games, this year or next. Whitesides rating i'm concerned about, but not overly.
I'm more concerned with the rating process and the logic and consistency that goes on behind all of this. It'd just be cool if it could be spelled out. Walt is in charge of the ratings now, so I would accept a Walt ratings rules thread, Walt you should ask Ian if you can make one.
Suggested rules: 2 rating threads per player per season max Players must maintain their level of production for X months to be rated to that level Players with larger increases/decreases should be moved to next in line.
Like, i don't mind if NONE of these are rules. I just want a little consistency. I get people telling me that whitesides production is invalauble, and he has to keep it up for the entirety of next year for me to get the same IRL production he is getting in the sim... thats half his contract. If thats going to happen in this case, it should happen in all cases.
I'm just a little bit (a lot) autistic, and inconsistency is my biggest trigger.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Feb 16, 2015 20:04:17 GMT
Caroll has been playing in the NBA for a few seasons, improving. Last season in whole he averaged 11ppg 5rpg. Whiteside played a game here and there in the NBA and overseas. NBA game experience is what counts. Nothing else. Maybe after the 2nd half we can rate him higher. I do agree his rating is way low but there's no one player that gets a rating increase as a rookie and just because he is playing great. Personally all the bothering you are doing I would not increase him until the very last rookie and next season sometime. Stop putting the league down and leave if you can accept the rules and decisions of the best league around. Sorry that I thought each GM was free to air their opinion and some peoples opinions are better than others. Sorry for trying to improve consistency and point of flaws. Everything should always just stay the same that it is, with no progress ever happening. Personally, you're a pretty spiteful person in how you think things should be done. Just trying to improve the process over here. Doesn't it seem logical that order of increases/decreases should be by how far apart their sim production is from real life production? Shouldn't 59 Whiteside and people like 67 Dieng be getting their increases sooner, while someone who is going to be bumped 1-2 points can wait? I just want realism, logic, and consistency. Are GMs not allowed to call out inconsistency when they see it? If thats the rule, fine. If someone has to produce at the level they are doing for 2 years so that their rating matches their production, fine. My goal is not to be an asshole, but just to see consistency from thread to thread. Of course, thats impossible, and why we vote, but if someone has to wait over a year to see their rating match their production... why is this guy different? Or ANYONE else for that matter? I just don't get it. Call me the asshole for wanting consistency though, thats a good move. Carroll has not performed at a 77 level for over a year. So my vote is a 74. Maybe next year he can be a 77. Edit: main point bolded, would be interested in response from Walt. Adam, every batch of ratings, I do the biggest changes first. Every time. So, I'm already doing what you are endlessly bitching about. :-) You're welcome. One thing I also do, is take care of some of the oldest ones first. If someone got a rating thread up in December and now we're in February and I haven't changed it yet, I'm not going to focus on the guys who got threads in mid-January. I'm going to focus first on the ones from December. Otherwise we'll have complaints going that way too. You guys are seriously spoiled as hell right now. We used to get about, what, 25 changes a YEAR if we were lucky? You talking about nothing ever changing is so far from correct it's truly laughable. Enjoy that this league is great. Enjoy we have such a dedicated simmer. Enjoy that we have such a dedicated Rating Change team. Stop bitching. You are making shit worse to be honest the way you are handling it. If you want to shit on the work being done then I'll just stop doing it. lol Not even under-appreciated, if I'm doing such a bad job, I'll just stop it and we'll get 20-25 a season instead of 15 every other week. Chill out dude. To answer your bolded point, the worst ratings already get attention first, in relation to the other rating threads posted around them.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2015 20:06:12 GMT
I never meant to imply you were doing an inadeqate job, Walt. rather that it seems that people have different views on how ratings should be done and was wondering if we could come to a consensus, or if there was already a consensus i didn't realize. i am still new here, and don't know what it used to be like, im just pointing out how i think it could be better. i don't mind if my suggestions arent taken into account, as long as the concerns are acknowledged and the way things are is properly explained. Ian has made lots of very good threads that explain almost everythign about how this league works in almost every detail, and this seems to be the only section really lacking something like that. i just didn't know how it works, and it seemed to be inconsistent to me. i don't mean to make more work for you. i'll help rerating players if you wanted, I can get a copy of NBA live 06, i don't mind this league is very good, and i was just looking for the system to be adequately spelled out, or if in the case a system hasn't been established that it would be established. just looking to make a good thing better by being more clear and consistent .
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Post by Charles Barkley on Feb 16, 2015 20:17:52 GMT
76, think this will be good for Carroll, his attributes could probably use some adjustments.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Feb 16, 2015 20:19:57 GMT
I agree, JR, this should be its own thread, but I shouldn't be the one to make it. Man, to be honest, and as you've pointed out, I don't need to be winning any games, this year or next. Whitesides rating i'm concerned about, but not overly. I'm more concerned with the rating process and the logic and consistency that goes on behind all of this. It'd just be cool if it could be spelled out. Walt is in charge of the ratings now, so I would accept a Walt ratings rules thread, Walt you should ask Ian if you can make one. Suggested rules: 2 rating threads per player per season max Players must maintain their level of production for X months to be rated to that level Players with larger increases/decreases should be moved to next in line. Like, i don't mind if NONE of these are rules. I just want a little consistency. I get people telling me that whitesides production is invalauble, and he has to keep it up for the entirety of next year for me to get the same IRL production he is getting in the sim... thats half his contract. If thats going to happen in this case, it should happen in all cases. I'm just a little bit (a lot) autistic, and inconsistency is my biggest trigger. On some of this - Everyone has their own opinion. Some think Whiteside is better than others. Some want to wait longer than others. That's the reason we might not put in hard and fast rules like what you are saying. I might put up guidelines or something, but we all have our own opinions and that's what has always made this section great. So, I don't foresee anything that would limit individual opinions. # of threads per season is something that's been discussed and I think just makes sense. That actually plays along with your complaint on Whiteside though. We need to see long-term patterns. 2 weeks or even a month can be misleading. I agree he needs an increase, and he'll be the first of his batch to get it, along with anyone else who maybe needs 5 points or more of a change. It's coming. If you want it done faster, donate to me or something, I dunno. I don't get paid, stop complaining, I do this for fun, don't make it a chore. Thanks
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2015 20:22:15 GMT
I agree, JR, this should be its own thread, but I shouldn't be the one to make it. Man, to be honest, and as you've pointed out, I don't need to be winning any games, this year or next. Whitesides rating i'm concerned about, but not overly. I'm more concerned with the rating process and the logic and consistency that goes on behind all of this. It'd just be cool if it could be spelled out. Walt is in charge of the ratings now, so I would accept a Walt ratings rules thread, Walt you should ask Ian if you can make one. Suggested rules: 2 rating threads per player per season max Players must maintain their level of production for X months to be rated to that level Players with larger increases/decreases should be moved to next in line. Like, i don't mind if NONE of these are rules. I just want a little consistency. I get people telling me that whitesides production is invalauble, and he has to keep it up for the entirety of next year for me to get the same IRL production he is getting in the sim... thats half his contract. If thats going to happen in this case, it should happen in all cases. I'm just a little bit (a lot) autistic, and inconsistency is my biggest trigger. On some of this - Everyone has their own opinion. Some think Whiteside is better than others. Some want to wait longer than others. That's the reason we might not put in hard and fast rules like what you are saying. I might put up guidelines or something, but we all have our own opinions and that's what has always made this section great. So, I don't foresee anything that would limit individual opinions. # of threads per season is something that's been discussed and I think just makes sense. That actually plays along with your complaint on Whiteside though. We need to see long-term patterns. 2 weeks or even a month can be misleading. I agree he needs an increase, and he'll be the first of his batch to get it, along with anyone else who maybe needs 5 points or more of a change. It's coming. If you want it done faster, donate to me or something, I dunno. I don't get paid, stop complaining, I do this for fun, don't make it a chore. Thanks I'm not complaining about the speed of your rating changes, but the speed of which people want to increase someones ratings in their head being different for different players. It just seems we reward people like kyle korver or demare carroll so their 2015 sim stats will be closer to their 2015 IRL stats, but we don't do the same thing for other players, whiteside being one of them. its more of a call for consistency than anything. If the next time you rerate players is a month from now, idc, im concerned with hte actualy # ratings people are giving.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Feb 16, 2015 20:51:07 GMT
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Post by Walt Frazier on Feb 16, 2015 20:55:52 GMT
I'm not complaining about the speed of your rating changes, but the speed of which people want to increase someones ratings in their head being different for different players. It just seems we reward people like kyle korver or demare carroll so their 2015 sim stats will be closer to their 2015 IRL stats, but we don't do the same thing for other players, whiteside being one of them. its more of a call for consistency than anything. If the next time you rerate players is a month from now, idc, im concerned with hte actualy # ratings people are giving. Fair enough Adam, wasn't entirely clear before what your issue was. You must understand players have different situations. One guy like Carroll has been in the league a few years, gained some fans last year, and has kept it up or even improved it this season. Another guy like Whiteside failed out of the NBA, had to play overseas and in the DLeague before he got another chance, and then just exploded onto the league. He may be the one guy who keeps it up and never fades until old-age gets him, but we've all seen things like this before. Sometimes the flame lasts longer than others, but often times it does burn out sooner than it seems it will. The consistency you seek is there. Consistently, we don't make changes super quickly on players b/c we want to have them really prove themselves, that way we aren't rating and re-rating constantly due to a good 2-weeks, followed by a bad 3 weeks, followed by another great month, and on and on. Maybe you just didn't know Carroll was actually solid last year? In his thread from last year, many people wanted him to prove it for longer. It's actually incredibly consistent in that way.
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Post by Charles Barkley on Feb 16, 2015 21:01:57 GMT
Blah Blah Blah, Hassan Whiteside, Blah Blah Blah. Every. Fuckin. Thread.
Let it go, Stock Watch is made up of our 30 opinions. We all have a vote. Some disagree, some agree. You win and you lose. It is about compromise.
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Post by Clyde Drexler on Feb 16, 2015 21:37:29 GMT
Adam, is this your first sim league?
I've been in leagues where commissioners would randomly disappear for weeks or where ratings wouldn't get changed for longer than a year. This is one of the, if not the best, sim leagues out there. On top of that, Ian and Walt put all this time in for free!
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Kevin Hollis
Former Thunder GM for 7 years
All Star
Posts: 2,838
Dec 16, 2022 11:27:40 GMT
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Post by Kevin Hollis on Feb 17, 2015 15:17:45 GMT
76 - Please stop comparing every fucking player to Whiteside. It has become an annoyance that I do not care to read about.
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Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on Feb 27, 2015 0:04:51 GMT
bump
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Post by Bryan Colangelo on Feb 27, 2015 0:05:49 GMT
77
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2015 3:43:43 GMT
After the Hawks win its 6th in a row and something like 42 of its last 47 games....
Coach noted that He is the key to their Defensive scheme and they still continue to lead the league in wins...
He deserves to be in the 80s. He's an NBA starter on the best team...
I change my previous rating to 82.
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Deleted
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Apr 26, 2024 12:45:44 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2015 4:01:49 GMT
After the Hawks win its 6th in a row and something like 42 of its last 47 games.... Coach noted that He is the key to their Defensive scheme and they still continue to lead the league in wins... He deserves to be in the 80s. He's an NBA starter on the best team... I change my previous rating to 82. Tony Allen is an NBA starter on the 2nd best team in the west, and is known to be the best wing defender in the NBA. He is a 76.
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Mar 7, 2015 8:26:14 GMT
He's barely better than he was last year. Of course he deserves a 10 ovr point raise.
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Mar 7, 2015 8:35:35 GMT
Listen brah. People lay more attention to good teams because its easier to figure out who is great good bad and ugly on a good team. Its harder to pick the good players out from a bad team. Better teams are on TV more and thusly more easily judged by people in the league especially if the team is in a town most of our gms aren't from. For example I'm pretty sure Lowry gets weekly updates from our crew up in Canada. The answer to this is oh well. Deal with it. Most of the players on a bad team are bad and its really hard to figure out whos really actually good. No one watches them because they aren't on tv. And unless they live in the town they have no idea of how good someone is on a particular bad team. It happens. I get my team's (Cavs) games every game even the boring non televised games. I can really only judge these players on bad teams based on the brief time I see them to combine with stats to come up with a rating.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Mar 7, 2015 16:52:36 GMT
Listen brah. People lay more attention to good teams because its easier to figure out who is great good bad and ugly on a good team. Its harder to pick the good players out from a bad team. Better teams are on TV more and thusly more easily judged by people in the league especially if the team is in a town most of our gms aren't from. For example I'm pretty sure Lowry gets weekly updates from our crew up in Canada. The answer to this is oh well. Deal with it. Most of the players on a bad team are bad and its really hard to figure out whos really actually good. No one watches them because they aren't on tv. And unless they live in the town they have no idea of how good someone is on a particular bad team. It happens. I get my team's (Cavs) games every game even the boring non televised games. I can really only judge these players on bad teams based on the brief time I see them to combine with stats to come up with a rating. I feel like you're responding to something completely unrelated to the post you quoted. I mean, I get your point, and that's one way to do it. I take in a lot of stats with Fantasy Basketball but watch a few games here and there. Enough that I know what type of player these guys are. Plus, with the right stats, you can tell a lot about a player. I get what you're saying, to a point, about players on good teams vs. Players on bad teams. That needs to be a factor, but so does team system, and the players fit in that system (sometimes good, sometimes bad). And, a player shooting 48-50% as a wing is an effective shooter, period. In fact, that's harder to do on a bad team. You are theoretically getting worse passes, the other team theoretically is not worried about your crappy teammates as much, you aren't getting as many open looks, etc. I think if you think it through, you can sift through the stats of a player on a bad team as well as a player on a good team.
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Spike Lee
Former Knicks GM
Sophomore
Posts: 366
Sept 15, 2018 22:53:48 GMT
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Post by Spike Lee on Mar 8, 2015 4:35:05 GMT
75
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Post by Sam Bowie on Mar 25, 2015 5:38:17 GMT
79,5. Very good role player. He does pretty much everything well in both sides of the court.
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