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Post by James Kay on Mar 10, 2014 23:29:53 GMT
 Houston Rockets
Houston sends: 79 Brandon Knight $2,793,960 $3,553,917 $4,790,680 73 John Henson $1,671,300 $1,743,200 $2,491,033 $3,445,098 Houston receives: 79 Kenyon Martin $4,700,000 2014 Houston 1st Round Pick 2014 Philadelphia 2nd Round Pick 2014 Toronto 2nd Round Pick Houston Salary before trade: $60,045,916 Houston Salary after trade: $60, 280, 656
 Charlotte Hornets Charlotte sends: 79 Kenyon Martin $4,700,000 73 Toney Douglas $3,101,820 75 Luc Mbah a Moute $4,382,576 2015 Charlotte 1st Round Pick 2014 Houston 1st Round Pick 2014 Toronto 1st Round Pick 2014 Indiana 1st Round Pick 2014 Charlotte 2nd Round Pick 2014 Philadelphia 2nd Round Pick 2014 Toronto 2nd Round Pick 2014 San Antonio 2nd Round Pick Charlotte receives: 84 Mike Conley $8,000,001 $8,694,216 $9,388,426 71 James Jones $1,500,000 73 John Henson $1,671,300 $1,743,200 $2,491,033 $3,445,098 Charlotte Salary before trade: $61,713,313 Charlotte Salary after trade: $60,700,218
 New Orleans Pelicans New Orleans sends: 84 Mike Conley $8,000,001 $8,694,216 $9,388,426 71 James Jones $1,500,000 New Orleans receives: 79 Brandon Knight $2,793,960 $3,553,917 $4,790,680 73 Toney Douglas $3,101,820 75 Luc Mbah a Moute $4,382,576 2014 Indiana 1st Round Pick 2014 Toronto 1st Round Pick 2014 San Antonio 2nd Round Pick 2014 Charlotte 2nd Round Pick 2015 Charlotte 1st Round Pick New Orleans salary before trade: $75,631,090 New Orleans salary after trade: $76,409,445 |
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Mar 10, 2014 23:35:00 GMT
I accept. Mike Conley is a great player but this team isn't winning a championship or frankly even making the playoffs anytime soon. At 26 Conley is who he is while Knight and the picks I acquired give me great potential for the long term as well as cheap contracts that can allow me to sign free agents more easily. This is a classic rebuilding move for the Pelicans.
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Post by James Kay on Mar 11, 2014 1:43:49 GMT
I accept. I give up a LOT of picks, but I get a true franchise Point Guard. I want to create a defensive identity for Charlotte and Conley is an all-NBA defensive player. He's also on a good contract that will still leave me 30 million in cap space this off-season. In addition I get prospect John Henson, who shows sparks of potential when he gets playing time over Sanders and/or Ilyasova, giving me a total of 4 young defensive bigs locked up for a long time.
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Post by Alex English on Mar 11, 2014 1:54:33 GMT
Can you guys fix the draft picks in this trade. They don't match up.
Picks being sent:
2014 Houston 1st Round Pick
2014 Indiana 1st Round Pick
2014 Philadelphia 2nd Round Pick
2014 Toronto 2nd Round Pick
2014 San Antonio 2nd Round Pick
2015 Charlotte 1st Round Pick
Picks being received:
2014 Houston 1st Round Pick
2014 Indiana 1st Round Pick
2014 Toronto 1st Round Pick
2014 San Antonio 2nd Round Pick
2014 Philadelphia 2nd Round Pick
2014 Toronto 2nd Round Pick
2014 Charlotte 2nd Round Pick
2015 Charlotte 1st Round Pick
There are 6 picks sent out, which are all received by someone. But in total there are 8 picks being received. The 2014 Toronto 1st Round Pick and the 2014 Charlotte 2nd Round Pick do not match up.
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Post by James Kay on Mar 11, 2014 1:57:11 GMT
Can you guys fix the draft picks in this trade. They don't match up. Picks being sent: 2014 Houston 1st Round Pick
2014 Indiana 1st Round Pick
2014 Philadelphia 2nd Round Pick
2014 Toronto 2nd Round Pick
2014 San Antonio 2nd Round Pick
2015 Charlotte 1st Round PickPicks being received: 2014 Houston 1st Round Pick
2014 Indiana 1st Round Pick2014 Toronto 1st Round Pick 2014 San Antonio 2nd Round Pick
2014 Philadelphia 2nd Round Pick
2014 Toronto 2nd Round Pick 2014 Charlotte 2nd Round Pick2015 Charlotte 1st Round PickThere are 6 picks sent out, which are all received by someone. But in total there are 8 picks being received. The 2014 Toronto 1st Round Pick and the 2014 Charlotte 2nd Round Pick do not match up. Edited. My bad. |
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Post by Alex English on Mar 11, 2014 2:52:13 GMT
Ok I don't like that 8 picks was correct and not 6 picks.
Pretty much Charlotte's entire future is dependent on these picks and I don't really think Conley and Henson are worth four 1st rounders and eight picks in total. Especially since, excluding the Bobcats own pick, the three that were kept for this season are probably the three worst picks, which are the ones from Sacramento, Portland and the Clippers. My biggest issue though is that Charlotte's 2015 pick is being given up as well, which will almost certainly be a good lottery pick.
The other two teams are fine. Though I'd have figured the Pelicans would want to keep Conley and trade Lin instead but he's getting so much value here in Brandon Knight and three 1st round picks that I see why he's doing it.
I'll listen to other input but I am pretty close to rejecting based on the complete reversal in directions for the Hornets and that the 2015 pick is included.
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Mar 11, 2014 4:05:39 GMT
I know I'm not on the trade committee but here's my run down of value for each person:
Houston: Clearly leveraging his young talent so he can regain flexibility (by getting his pick back) to either blow it up (5-10 seriously?) or to be able to add talent.
Charlotte sends: Gives up bad/old players and mostly late first rounders (Toronto isn't going to be out of the playoffs) in order to get a guy who is on a reasonable contract that everyone has different opinions about (Conley, I personally think he's fantastic, others view him as more ho-hum decent to good) and a guy who looks like he's about to make a jump (assuming he gets playing time) to being a pretty good PF/C. I don't think that Conley is enough to really sacrifice this season's draft positioning by more than a few spots. If you think about it like this he's giving up hit or miss prospects from late in this year's drafts for two proven players (one who is really good and can be leveraged in free agency as a good guy to play with.) and his next year's pick which from what I understand isn't that great of a draft anyways. He'll be able to throw money at every free agent if he wants to, having Mike Conley around might be enough to pull in a decent one and he could make the playoffs next season.
New Orleans: Tank tank tank tank tank and tank some more we all know what they are doing.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2014 4:25:26 GMT
Ok I don't like that 8 picks was correct and not 6 picks. Pretty much Charlotte's entire future is dependent on these picks and I don't really think Conley and Henson are worth four 1st rounders and eight picks in total. Especially since, excluding the Bobcats own pick, the three that were kept for this season are probably the three worst picks, which are the ones from Sacramento, Portland and the Clippers. My biggest issue though is that Charlotte's 2015 pick is being given up as well, which will almost certainly be a good lottery pick. The other two teams are fine. Though I'd have figured the Pelicans would want to keep Conley and trade Lin instead but he's getting so much value here in Brandon Knight and three 1st round picks that I see why he's doing it. I'll listen to other input but I am pretty close to rejecting based on the complete reversal in directions for the Hornets and that the 2015 pick is included. I think you hit the nail on the head Mr. English. |
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Post by Charles Barkley on Mar 11, 2014 4:39:44 GMT
I accept my side of the deal.
I get what is most important to me, my 2014 1st round pick; I feel that my pick is the key to a shaping my team how I want it to be. I always confided in my good friend, Kenny "the Jet" Smith, that Bledsoe is my teams future PG and I feel that this deal gives him the reigns. As for Henson, it's hard to let him go because I see so much promise in him, but the Rockets front court is crowded at the time being and it is a small price to pay for the control of the Rockets future.
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Post by Andrei Kirilenko on Mar 11, 2014 13:05:05 GMT
New Orleans rapes in this deal. Charlotte and Houston both get boned. I understand that eventually you have to trade up if you want to win games, but Charlotte is giving up a ton of value here for Ccnley and Henson. I really don't like this for Houston. I don't see anyone he drafts around the 10-15 range being worth both Knight AND Henson.
However, I don't think its bad enough to reject though... so I accept.
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Post by Blake Bowman on Mar 11, 2014 13:54:17 GMT
This trade is terrible for Charlotte.
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Post by Bryan Colangelo on Mar 11, 2014 15:58:03 GMT
This is how i look at it.
- Bobcats trade 8 draft picks: 4 1st rounders, and 4 2nd rounders:
2015 Charlotte 1st Round Pick - This pick is up in the air, but with the amount of cap space Charlotte has he could go out and sign Ibaka for example. Not saying he will get all the big players but he will get someone to go along with Conely. Plus he gets to keep his own pick in 2014 to draft someone young.
2014 Houston 1st Round Pick - Team is struggling and right now it seems there pick will be a top 15 pick.
2014 Toronto 1st Round Pick - team isnt playing well, could be another top 15 pick
2014 Indiana 1st Round Pick - team is doing decent at .500. Should be a late pick at the end of the year.
So two or three picks being top 15 in the draft and 1 late pick for Conely and John Henson.
- I get why NOH is doing this, clearly he is the winner of this trade.
- Houston gets picks and gets to start Eric Bledsoe. I would rather have Knight since his contract is longer but still not worthy to reject.
Overall: I am not as high as others on Mike conely. But looking at teams who have two PG's are:
Dallas: Starting PG: Rajon Rondo - Backup PG: Devin Harris
G-State: Starting PG: Stephen Curry - Backup PG: MWC
Houston: Starting PG: Brandon Knight - Backup PG: Eric Bledsoe
Bucks: Starting PG: Jrue Holiday - Backup PG: Jose Calderon
NOP: Starting PG: Mike Conley - Backup PG: Lin
So looking at this, NOP is giving away his starting PG and his team wont be hurt to much since he has Lin to replace Conely. Would G-state give up MWC? Not unless it's something to help his team (not picks which is what Hornets are willing to give up at this time), and i rather have Mike Conely over the rest available PG. Honestly, it seems that Hornets is giving up a lot here, which is he is but he got the second best PG out there that's available in trade talks.
At 1st, i was going to reject but breaking it down, i can see why he did this trade and i will accept.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2014 16:24:15 GMT
Lucas is rolling around in his metaphorical grave!
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Post by James Kay on Mar 11, 2014 16:29:06 GMT
Lucas is rolling around in his metaphorical grave! Vlade, what type of player do you think what I'm sending deserves in return? |
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Post by Alex English on Mar 11, 2014 17:04:56 GMT
The more I look at this, the more I don't like it. It sucks for Charlotte and I pretty much overlooked the deal from Houston's perspective without realizing how much it actually sucks for him also. Even though it's so hard to value picks because they are so unknown I have to vote to reject this.
So it's currently 2 accepts and 1 reject.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2014 17:40:19 GMT
Lucas is rolling around in his metaphorical grave! Vlade, what type of player do you think what I'm sending deserves in return? Honestly, I think you should keep some of these picks and see what happens. I drafted Lillard from TOR's 2013 1st that I got as a filler in a trade, so you never know what they will turn into it. Besides, what are you really gaining from this deal? You aren't anywhere near a contender. Also, while I am not a big Conley fan, I am sure even his biggest fans acknowledge the fact that he is not a difference maker on a team. PS. I know English and I aren't always the best of friends, but dang we agree in this thread! |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2014 17:45:30 GMT
Also, let me answer your question with your own words. You offered me the following trade:
"I want to give you the Houston, LAC, Portland, Raptors, and your own 1st Round pick + Bismack Biyombo + Jeff Withey for Wesbtrook."
Now you are sending four first round picks for Conley? I am not sure how that makes sense.
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Post by James Kay on Mar 11, 2014 17:50:54 GMT
Also, let me answer your question with your own words. You offered me the following trade: "I want to give you the Houston, LAC, Portland, Raptors, and your own 1st Round pick + Bismack Biyombo + Jeff Withey for Wesbtrook." Now you are sending four first round picks for Conley? I am not sure how that makes sense. I'd appreciate it if you didn't post private messages, but whatever. |
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Post by Ian Noble on Mar 11, 2014 17:59:25 GMT
Before I read any of this thread I firstly want to say that this is an immaculately presented trade, well done James Kay for using all the code to get the colours and images all working  I appreciate that kinda thing! I realize that Houston's giving up too much in this trade but I don't really mind because I've been in lengthy chats with Charles Barkley about how much he wants his 1st rounder back so he can start a rebuild. Personally I think his team is so good he doesn't need to rebuild (!) but he's got his pick back here. I'm not so high on Knight and Henson either, so I don't feel like he's done so badly. The Pelicans obviously do very well out of this trade. It's distressing to see Charlotte deviate from a plan that's been in place since 2012, but after this trade he's still got four 1st round picks this season, which is ok, and at least he's not trading away his own pick. The main problem I have, that really brings me close to rejecting, is that Charlotte's including his 2015 pick. I can't believe New Orleans managed to get that pick. A rebuilding team giving away next year's first rounder is a silly thing to do in my opinion. Charlotte is the league's most rebuildingest (?) team, even more than me, but here they're essentially saying that, with the assets they receive in this trade and the picks they'll make this year, they can trade away their 1st rounder, which I just don't see being the case. Mr Kay, you're hugely undervaluing your 2015 1st in this trade. edit: not to mention, acquiring Conley this season potentially de-values Charlotte's 2014 1st rounder. I'd like to see further discussion before I give a verdict. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2014 19:03:21 GMT
Also, let me answer your question with your own words. You offered me the following trade: "I want to give you the Houston, LAC, Portland, Raptors, and your own 1st Round pick + Bismack Biyombo + Jeff Withey for Wesbtrook." Now you are sending four first round picks for Conley? I am not sure how that makes sense. I'd appreciate it if you didn't post private messages, but whatever. May I ask why? |
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Post by James Kay on Mar 11, 2014 19:23:26 GMT
I'd appreciate it if you didn't post private messages, but whatever. May I ask why? No |
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Mar 11, 2014 19:24:52 GMT
I'd appreciate it if you didn't post private messages, but whatever. May I ask why? Probably the same reason that real GM's don't talk to the public about their negotiations. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2014 19:25:54 GMT
Well then I think the TC should reject this trade because you cannot articulate what the heck you are doing. Honestly, someone will give you more value than this if you just hate draft picks or whatever. |
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Post by Blake Bowman on Mar 11, 2014 22:29:44 GMT
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Post by Charles Barkley on Mar 12, 2014 2:13:43 GMT
Does it seem like I get boned as Josh put it? Yeah. Maybe. But, I had no idea it was a 3 team deal, therefore, I had no idea the value that Brandon Knight had to Mr. Scalabrine. Even if I trade Knight to Mr. Scalabrine for something close to what James gave him, I am still left without my first step in my plan.
Knight, to me, is exactly like Bledsoe except Knight happens to be on the Bucks IRL, as does Henson. And I've seen the Bucks shift through guards and young players time and time again. Where as Bledsoe has flourished in PHX this season. Yeah, he may have some injury troubles, but so does every athlete. If all I have to do to get my "key" to my plans is give up two guys who aren't in my future plans, then sign me up.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Mar 12, 2014 2:21:03 GMT
Weeeellllll..
Ok, Houston's side I'm a little torn on. Holding your own pick is a big deal IMO. I like Henson probably more than Knight to be honest, and that's a combination of not thinking Knight is a good player, and also being fairly high on Henson. But I think Knight's value around the league is probably high enough, that I can objectively say that this is kind of bad for Houston. I'd give Henson to get my pick back. I'd give Knight to get my pick back. Giving both is a bit much. I might reject this part of the deal if it was it's own trade, but I might not. It's bad, maybe not terribly bad, but it is a bad start to this large trade.
I can make the rest of this pretty quick actually. (I tend to get longwinded so...)
The fact that pretty much everyone thinks that the Pelicans do very well in this deal is exactly why it's a reject.
Everything of value the Pelicans gets, he gets from the Bobcats.
And, the Bobcats give up even more (another potential lottery pick and 2 decent 2nd round picks in a very deep draft) pieces, so the trade has to be even worse for him than it is good for the Pelicans.
Houston part is bad for him.
Pelicans part is great for him, which means the Bobcats' part is just as bad as the Pelicans part is good, plus the Bobcats give even more, making this a reject for me.
Reject.
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Post by Ian Noble on Mar 12, 2014 20:25:48 GMT
Ok looks like I'm the one to break the deadlock.
I accept.
I think that Charlotte's making a mistake, especially by giving up his 2015 1st, but he's still going to have four first rounders this year (CHA, LAC, POR, SAC), even though three of those almost certainly wont be lottery-bound, and that's still a much better rebuilding program than many NBA teams have in real life.
Also in the interests of adhering to the principal that if a team still has plenty of assets after a trade - then let them trade, I think we can be assured that these three teams do not meet that criteria, even though Houston and New Orleans have new-ish GMs.
Trade passed.
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Post by Ian Noble on Mar 12, 2014 20:29:48 GMT
New Orleans needs to cut a player before this trade can be finalized.
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Post by Ian Noble on Mar 12, 2014 20:32:44 GMT
Oh also Houston has to sign one player  |
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Mar 12, 2014 21:41:37 GMT
The pelicans cut James Jones
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Charlotte Hornets
Denver Nuggets
Brooklyn Nets
Toronto Raptors
Boston Celtics
I appreciate that kinda thing!
Minnesota Timberwolves
