|
Post by Jerry West on May 11, 2022 11:57:31 GMT
Current: 83 Proposed: 87
Stats this season: 17.8 - 11.4 - 2.6 on 62% TS.
But let's look at his stats compared to a guy who made the All-Star game last year and is rated a 86, Sabonis, and in order to make it a fair comparison let's use the stats from the past 2 seasons combined (using Sabonis All-Star year) and adjust it based on posessions.
Jonas Valanciunas Vs Damonta Sabonis
Rating: 83 / 86 Record: 74-80 2x Playoffs (Pre-Morant MIP and without JJJ) / 59-91 0x Playoffs Minutes: 29.4 / 35.2
Points: 28.9 / 26.7 Rebounds: 19.7 (5.8 OR) / 16.4 (3.9 OR) Assists: 3.7 / 8.1 Stocks: 2.3 / 2.2 Turnovers: 3.4 / 4.5
%: 57, 36, 80 / 55, 32, 74 TS%: 63 / 62 Usage: 23.2 % / 23.2%
Offensive Rating: 121 / 118
Defensive Rating: 110 / 112 (The lower the better)
Clearly JV has an advantage on everything except for passing, which is translated in 1 stat in D5, but how to quantify defense? It's not easy, a lot of eye input but I know that's not popular in here because it can lead to biased takes. So let's use the famous Win Shares that was already used in D5 for this past season:
DWS: 2.7 / 1.8
JV still takes the cake here, but let's use my favorite advanced metric (altough also not perfect because none is, LEBRON from BBall Index)
D-LEBRON: 1.41 / 1.28
So if for one second, you are able to take names plates off these players and put bias aside, you can't possibly argue that Sabonis does anything better outside of passing (which is represented by 1 stat in our rating system). And JV, by a fairly small margin, but is on a consisent basis a better player at everything else. And that's taking into account Sabonis All-Star year! Sabonis was voted fairly a 86 3 weeks ago, so there's no excuse to not vote a player who's better at pretty much everything just 1 point higher.
I made a point of listing all the stats, so you can't possibly accuse of me nitpicking stats for my advantage. And it's hard to argue that the 5 extra minutes Sabonis gets should be reflected more on our voting system than JV's extra 25 wins and 2 playoff appearances vs 0.
|
|
|
Post by Brad Stevens on May 11, 2022 12:56:16 GMT
83.5
|
|
|
Post by Andrei Kirilenko on May 11, 2022 13:04:28 GMT
I'm not sure if this is a serious thread or if its just some sort of trolling attempt towards Chauncey? Either way, I don't like threads where the entire argument is in comparison to another player. Domantas and Jonas aren't even very similar players- yes, they play the same position, but their skillsets and styles are completely different.
That being said, I do actually like Val's game a lot. He's a big body who can also shoot threes (even if its on low volume) and also play decent drop coverage. He would fit into almost any team in the league nicely as a really good roleplayer; but let's not confuse a really good roleplayer with being a star player.
84
|
|
|
Post by Jerry West on May 11, 2022 13:17:06 GMT
I'm not sure if this is a serious thread or if its just some sort of trolling attempt towards Chauncey? Either way, I don't like threads where the entire argument is in comparison to another player. Domantas and Jonas aren't even very similar players- yes, they play the same position, but their skillsets and styles are completely different. That being said, I do actually like Val's game a lot. He's a big body who can also shoot threes (even if its on low volume) and also play decent drop coverage. He would fit into almost any team in the league nicely as a really good roleplayer; but let's not confuse a really good roleplayer with being a star player. 84 "Even his A/TO is awful this year. I don't think he is better than JV but I can't get ignore that empty stats are still stats. 84"
Not everything is a personal attack, no need to play victim or act like you are being chased. I presented raw stats with no narraties for 2 centers who are from the same country and have some similar features, defend the same players, elite rebounders and similar shot charts with the use of the 3 point shot and mid range to create opportunities closer to the rim, not to mention I used a recent SW which is something reasonable to do. JV has better stats at everything, is it unreasonable for me to ask 1 point higher than Sabonis?
|
|
|
Post by Jared Montini on May 11, 2022 13:23:55 GMT
I think I would vote 84 on Sabonis(went 85 2 months ago) so I’ll go 84 for Jval
|
|
|
Post by Arvydas Sabonis on May 11, 2022 14:22:19 GMT
lol saying "Clearly JV has an advantage on everything except for passing" when passing is the most rare skill for a center to have, and Sabonis has better assists per game than many point guards. All other stats are very similar.
I can go for 84, but I think that's pretty much the ceiling for his skillset which has been pretty clear the same for years. Imo prime candidate for SW rating reduction next year.
Also I don't think it's good way to compare multiple season averages. At the end of the season please stick to the current season. Previous season should only impact if SW is posted in the beginning of the year which includes for example 30games from current year and 20 from last years playoffs
|
|
|
Post by Jerry West on May 11, 2022 14:30:40 GMT
lol saying "Clearly JV has an advantage on everything except for passing" when passing is the most rare skill for a center to have, and Sabonis has better assists per game than many point guards. All other stats are very similar. I can go for 84, but I think that's pretty much the ceiling for his skillset which has been pretty clear the same for years. Imo prime candidate for SW rating reduction next year. Also I don't think it's good way to compare multiple season averages. At the end of the season please stick to the current season. Previous season should only impact if SW is posted in the beginning of the year which includes for example 30games from current year and 20 from last years playoffs I agree that passing it's a very rare skill to find and valuable in big man, but if you READ, key word READ, what I said, it only is reflected in one of our rating points, and JV isn't even a terrible passer for center standards. So yes, Sabonis needs a big chunk of points on passing that JV doesn't, but everywhere else, in what skills are you going to rate Sabonis higher? Which is something people are ignoring. JV should be a few points higher at everything else.
And has to why I compared the last 2 seasons, it was to include Sabonis All-Star season, but if I include just this year the gap is even bigger. But I didn't want the Kings narrative to come into place.
I just tried to demosntrate that JV is slightly better at everything, and objectively based on stats and performace, there's no reason he should be voted lower.
|
|
|
Post by Jared Montini on May 11, 2022 14:36:45 GMT
lol saying "Clearly JV has an advantage on everything except for passing" when passing is the most rare skill for a center to have, and Sabonis has better assists per game than many point guards. All other stats are very similar. I can go for 84, but I think that's pretty much the ceiling for his skillset which has been pretty clear the same for years. Imo prime candidate for SW rating reduction next year. Also I don't think it's good way to compare multiple season averages. At the end of the season please stick to the current season. Previous season should only impact if SW is posted in the beginning of the year which includes for example 30games from current year and 20 from last years playoffs You are the father of one of the players in the arguement, I smell the bias 👀
|
|
|
Post by Steve Nash on May 11, 2022 14:58:15 GMT
83.5
|
|
|
Post by Brian Scalabrine on May 11, 2022 15:07:23 GMT
83
|
|
Larry Bird
Indiana Pacers
Starter
Posts: 1,672
Mar 5, 2024 13:29:26 GMT
|
Post by Larry Bird on May 11, 2022 15:18:39 GMT
84
|
|
|
Post by George Gervin on May 11, 2022 16:30:58 GMT
84
|
|
|
Post by James Kay on May 11, 2022 17:21:50 GMT
84.5
|
|
|
Post by Kareem Abdul-Jabbar on May 12, 2022 5:26:07 GMT
84
|
|
|
Post by Amare Stoudemire on May 13, 2022 12:56:13 GMT
84
|
|
|
Post by George Gervin on May 17, 2022 14:53:03 GMT
THREAD CLOSED.
New Rating = 84 (83.95)
|
|