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Post by Walt Frazier on Dec 18, 2012 14:54:05 GMT
Turns out I haven't made a thread for Batum yet, and I think he definitely deserves a boost. I think he's been brought up by others in some of the many threads, so, time to make my case.
Currently: 79
Stats IRL - 16ppg/5.6rpg/3.7apg/1.7spg/1.2bpg with 42% from the field (last two years shot over 45%, and he dipped this year when he had that small injury) / 35.3% from 3 (has shot 35% and 39% the last two years there) / 83% from the line.
Specific areas his rating should go up:
3pt: Currently at 78, should be around 82. I went in-depth on 3pt ratings in the Love post, and with his consistent 35% baseline (with an obvious ability to go higher at 39 last year) he's definitely due an increase in 3pt rating.
Pass: Currently at a 40! Needs quite a bump, showing a good ability to dish the ball this season with almost 4 apg. Should be at least above a 60 (Bogut is a 60, Melo is a 60, MarShon Brooks 64, Jordan Crawford at 64, DeRozan at 52 [he's only putting up 2.0apg and that's the highest he's ever had], Duncan at 70, Dunleavy at 68, Durant at 62, Garnett 70, Marc Gasol 60 [Should go up a bit I think too], Pau at 70...etc etc.)
After looking through all of those I think Batum is in the 65-70 range for pass these days.
Dribble: Currently 66, could probably push into the low 70's.
Dunk: Currently 65, he's a very athletic dude and can definitely dunk better than this. Just look at this:
Just a quick look at guys near Batum alphabetically and we see Brandon Bass is an 80, Earl Barron is a 75, Bargnani is a 68, Beasley is a 79, Belinelli is a 75...
So, let's put Batum up into the mid-80's I'd say. If he isn't above Belinelli that's a crime, so he is clearly due for at least a 11 point boost lol. But really, even if we don't compare to specific players who might need a decrease, Batum is definitely a good dunker. Boost it up.
Off. Aware: Currently a 67, he's becoming a huge piece on Portland and he's definitely a smart player. You just don't put up the kind of numbers he is putting up unless you have some knowledge and "awareness". Should be in the high 70's/low 80's at the least, maybe encroaching on mid 80's (Ryan Anderson is an 82, Matt Barnes at 75, Bargnani at 85, Brandon Bass 77, Beasley 81, Bogut 82, Boozer 87, Bosh 90).
Steal: Currently at 52. 1.7 spg is 18th best in the NBA. He should be mid-upper 80's.
Block: Currently at 52. 1.2 bpg is 30th best in the NBA. He should be low-mid 80's.
Def. Aware: Currently at 67. His defensive stats, plus the eye test both tell you he's a pretty solid defender. At least upper 70's/low 80's range.
Rebounding: OReb at 50, DReb at 48. He's averaging 5.6 rpg overall, he definitely has improved in this area, especially defensive. Needs a boost in DReb to probably at least a 60...lot of #'s to look through but I have to think that 50/48 makes him a below average rebounder, while his real-life almost 6rpg makes him above average, especially for a SG/SF type of player.
Speed & Quickness: Both are at 78 right now. Should get into the 80's.
Jump: Currently 65. Again, along with his Dunk, these are pretty glaring and not representative of the type of player Batum is. Needs to be at least 80 (Ariza is an 85, I think Batum is similar there...Melo is an 80 btw).
Strength: 56...I think he's a bit stronger than that, probably into the 60's at least. Probably 65 or so.
Hardy: 65. Except for his sophomore season where he missed 45 games for torn cartilage in his right shoulder, he has played 79 games rookie year, 80 games 3rd year, 59 in the strike year (so that's almost all of them), and has only missed 1 game this year. Should be much higher here.
Fatigue: 64. Playing 38 mpg, has been playing at least 30 mpg for the past 3 years now. He should be on par with other star-type players that play tons of minutes for their teams. So, at least into the mid-80's, probably upper 80's or low 90's. Ray Allen at a 90, Melo at a 95, Boozer 86, Bosh 90...so yea.
Overall, I know that's a lot of areas, but he's just clearly deserving a boost in SO MANY areas, I had to bring it up. I don't "care" what his overall rating becomes, but these areas need addressed ASAP. He's a rising star in the league and is already doing some amazing things (had that 11/5/10/5/5 line the other night (pt/reb/ast/stl/blk)).
Give him respect and boost them ratings!
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Otis Smith
Former Rockets GM
Sophomore
Posts: 280
Dec 24, 2013 6:32:46 GMT
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Post by Otis Smith on Dec 18, 2012 21:51:27 GMT
Nice work, that must have taken awhile to get all that info. The only I disagree with is blocks/steals, low to mid 70s would be fair for someone who has never consistently been that great at steals or (especially) blocks.
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Post by Alex English on Dec 19, 2012 0:00:22 GMT
So yea.. I think doing all these things would bump his rating up to like 87-90. You have significant boosts to 14 of the 20 rating categories. Batum maybe deserves a small boost to like 82-83 but I'm also fine with him staying where he is.
3pt: for a career 37% 3pt shooter I think 78 is good
Pass: sure bump it up into the 60s
Dribble: 66 is alright, maybe up to 70
Dunk: high 70s sounds alright
Off Aware: 67 is good, about the league average
Steal: 52 isn't bad maybe to 60 this is his first year averaging above 1 steal per game, mid/upper 80s is ridiculous though
Block: 52 is good, most block ratings are like 40 and under. Wade has a 50 and he is a very good shot blocker. Once again anything near 80 would be a little nuts.
Def Aware: Again I think 67 is alright
Rebounding: Maybe DReb to 60 or so
Speed and Quickness: 78 isn't bad, small boost would be alright though
Jump: not very many people have a rating above 80, I think 70-75 for him is alright
Strength: meh, I think it's basically irrelevant
Hardy: A little low, he played 37 games his 2nd year, but a small boost is alright
Fatigue: Agree it's way too low, should be into the 80s
There is my take on him. It will be interesting to see what happens though. Paul George is basically at the same place in his career as Batum. He'll be due for some of whatever Batum gets.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Dec 19, 2012 1:09:31 GMT
Nice work, that must have taken awhile to get all that info. The only I disagree with is blocks/steals, low to mid 70s would be fair for someone who has never consistently been that great at steals or (especially) blocks. Thanks man, it did take some time for sure. Fair enough on the disagreement b/c of consistency. I will say, to you and Alex, he had 1spg and 1bpg last season as well, and the year before that had .9 spg, so it's not like he's never done it at all. I'm fine with kind of playing it a little safe as long as he does get some credit for being a current top 20 steals guy and current top 30 block guy. |
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Post by Walt Frazier on Dec 19, 2012 2:32:27 GMT
So yea.. I think doing all these things would bump his rating up to like 87-90. You have significant boosts to 14 of the 20 rating categories. Batum maybe deserves a small boost to like 82-83 but I'm also fine with him staying where he is.
Anyway, I slacked on the comparison in this category, it looks like almost no one is above low 80's. Tony Allen is only at an 82, and he gets 1.8 spg in about 24mpg. Chris Paul sits at a 93. Rondo is a 91, Rubio is an 85. I did a quick look but those are the only players I see in that entire 9-10 point range. CP3 averages 2.4 on his career in 36/37 mpg, so I'd say Tony Allen should be on par or better there. And just weird that so few players are in that range.
Assuming we don't make drastic changes to the way the steal rating is set up, I'd be fine dropping my suggestion back to around the low 70s. Not sure why it matters what most block ratings are. We should be focusing on what other players that can do what Batum does are rated. Wade's career average is 1 block per game. He should probably be at least in the 60s. Bynum has 4 inches on Wade too btw.
Again, I'm OK waiting for him to do this more consistently but I still think a 52 is too low. At least in the 60's somewhere should be OK.Again, I think 67 may be about league average, and I think Batum is much better than an average player on defense. Even when he entered the league, Draft Express had his perimeter defense as a strength. Portland has used him to guard opponent's speedy PG's. He's got the length and speed to keep up with them and mess with them. www.awolfamongwolves.com/2012/07/is-nicolas-batum-worth-his-weight-in-brie/
If you have time, take a look at that article. It admits he isn't a complete stud/lockdown defender, and I don't think I asked for that either. But what it does say is he is assigned to the best perimeter player on the other team every night, and it's obviously REALLY hard to defend those guys in the NBA. He excelled at isolation defense, and defended pick-and-roll at an above average level. He wasn't great in the post, but it also points out he should not really be asked to play against PF's, which, unfortunately for him, he was asked to do in the 2nd half of the season. I think a lot of SG/SF's would look pretty bad on defense if they were guarding PFs as well, so it was just an unfortunate reality of Portland's situation last year that he ended up playing PF for a while.
Basically, as a wing player, which is what he is and should be used as, he's a very solid/pretty good defender.CoolHere are the players above 80 (there are quite a few players right at 80, btw):
95 - LeBron James
90 - Kobe Bryant
90 - Shannon Brown
90 - Gerald Green
90 - Josh Smith
90 - Amar'e Stoudemire
90 - Nate Robinson
90 - Andre Iguodala
90 - Blake Griffin
90 - James White
90 - Dwayne Wade
90 - Fred Jones
85 - Dwight Howard
85 - Derrick Rose
85 - Derrick Williams
85 - Russell Westbrook
85 - Joe Crawford
85 - Jeremy Evans
85 - J.R. Smith
85 - Isaiah Thomas
85 - DeMar DeRozan
85 - Pat Ewing Jr.
I'd say there are probably about 20 guys right at an 80 as well. Judging by his pre-draft workouts and articles (saying he has an "explosive vertical leap", and things like this from a Tournament overseas before he came to the US "Physically, the best player of the tournament. His athletic conditions are amazing. His vertical, his hang time, his extraordinary quickness, his explosive first step; all make him a player who is athletically almost unparalleled. He has quite long arms and displays great coordination in all his moves."
I stand by my "at least 80" comment, and that's still probably underrating him a little. He's very gifted physically.Cool...I think the Hardy should be more than a "small boost" but whatevs.There is my take on him. It will be interesting to see what happens though. Paul George is basically at the same place in his career as Batum. He'll be due for some of whatever Batum gets.
Looking forward to hearing back from everyone else! |
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Post by Alex English on Dec 19, 2012 9:21:29 GMT
If I had to pick an overall rating that I think he should be at, I'd say 84-85. 87-90 is definitely too high until he does it for a little longer Is Batum really an 84-85? What about Paul George? Is he an 85? Is DeMar DeRozan an 85? Is Danilo Gallinari and 85? Is Arron Afflalo an 85? All those guys have similar production and I'd consider them among the second tier of wing players in the league. But then what about guys like Rudy Gay? Is he an 88-89? I certainly know the game though, I was stretching it with an 84 for Dragic. But I'm going to be that guy in this thread I guess. I think Batum is at most an 82 and I think there is a pretty good case that he fine where he is at 79. |
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Post by Walt Frazier on Dec 19, 2012 15:43:33 GMT
Well, I think you were OK when you mentioned George, but DeRozan/Gallinari/Afflalo are not similar players. Maybe we need a party where we watch some basketball.
Even just going on stats...I've already done Batum
16ppg/5.6rpg/3.7apg/1.7spg/1.2bpg with 42% FG (45% in the last 3 years) / 35.3% from 3 (about 37% average last 3 years) / 83% FT
George - 16ppg/6.9rpg/3.7apg/1.3spg/.8bpg with 42%FG (44% in last 3 years) / 40% from 3 (been improving definitely) / 81.8% from FT
DeRozan - 18ppg/5rpg/2.1apg/1.2spg/.4bpg with 44.7%FG (about his average last 3 years) / 29% from 3 (and that's actually an improvement) / 80.8%FT
Gallinari - 16ppg/5.8rpg/2.6apg/.7spg/.5bpg with 40%FG (his average last 3 years basically) / 31% from 3 (about 34% average last 3 years) / 82.2% FT
Afflalo - 16ppg/4rpg/2.6apg/.8spg/.2bpg with 45% FG (little below his last 3 year average) / 36% from 3 (little below his average too) / 86.4% FT
As I said, I'm OK with Paul George being close to the same rating. Batum better in steals and blocks, but Paul is rebounding and shooting 3's better currently.
As for the other 3, the glaring difference is their steal and block numbers, in addition to rebounding (for Afflalo) and assists (for all 3)...plus DeRozan and Gallinari are both struggling from 3...
If you really think Afflalo/Gallinari/DeRozan deserve to be on the same level, we've got some problems man. They're at least a few points overall behind, and there are some clear areas where those points should come from. Just overall defense is an advantage to Batum, and that's an entire half of a player's game, so it would be misguided to ignore that.
Batum at an 84/85 range, if you want me to say 84, fine.
George around there too, yes I'm OK with that. I think we need to stay current with the NBA, and those guys deserve to be there.
Gallinari probably like an 81/82
DeRozan's deficiencies (which he is slowly fixing, but still far behind in a few areas) leave him where he is around a 79
Afflalo is more of a pure shooter/scorer, and is clearly behind in many areas, especially the steals/blocks/rebounds. He's a better shooter, but again, overall game, he's a bit behind. If we theoretically had Batum/George around 84/85, then Afflalo would be around 81/82 for me, like Gallinari.
As for Rudy Gay, Batum and George are already outperforming him this season, especially in the pass/assist area, and Batum a little advantage in both steal and block.
18.6ppg/6rpg/2.4apg/1.4spg/1bpg with 42% FG (averages closer to 45 usually) /33% from 3 (that's his average basically) / 79% FT
That said, Rudy has been doing this (with a little better FG%) for a longer time, so I'm not saying he should be lower. I think he should be probably an 85 as well. He scores more b/c he is allowed to take more shots, but other than that, he's similar across the board, but a worse passer/assist man.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Dec 19, 2012 15:45:43 GMT
If I had to pick an overall rating that I think he should be at, I'd say 84-85. 87-90 is definitely too high until he does it for a little longer I think Batum is at most an 82 and I think there is a pretty good case that he fine where he is at 79. And by the way, Batum is only in at a 78 right now, not 79. |
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Post by Danny Longley on Dec 19, 2012 18:03:03 GMT
Chandler Parsons 15.3 PPG/6.6 RPG/3.7 APG/2.0 TOPG/1.2 SPG/.1 BPG 45% FG/ 37.5% 3PT/72.6% FT So, 78-79 from me right now. Nicolas Batum 16ppg/5.6rpg/3.7apg/1.7spg/1.2bpg 41% FG/35% 3PT/83% FT If I had to pick an overall rating that I think he should be at, I'd say 84-85. Lol, kidding - Well, to a point, Definitely off-put though, considering they're almost identical statistically - edge to Parsons on percenatages, definite edge to Batum on defense (Though personally, it feels like athleticism lent defense more than pure defensive know-how) I agree or at least see where you're going on most points, but though BLK/STL should probably be mid-high 60s, low 70s for the meantime, and a Dribbling boost IMO just doesn't feel warranted. Particular point of interest, 3PT. I don't think he should cross 80 for the meantime. he shot 39% last year, but for most, has really just felt like a 35-37% shooter. Frankly, I'm a bit surprised that he's not consistent with the 39/border 40 mark considering Aldridge is good enough to draw more than a few double teams each game. Cutting things short, I see him about 2 points ahead of where I think Parsons should be, 82-83. |
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Post by Walt Frazier on Dec 19, 2012 18:40:08 GMT
Chandler Parsons 15.3 PPG/6.6 RPG/3.7 APG/2.0 TOPG/1.2 SPG/.1 BPG 45% FG/ 37.5% 3PT/72.6% FT So, 78-79 from me right now. Nicolas Batum 16ppg/5.6rpg/3.7apg/1.7spg/1.2bpg 41% FG/35% 3PT/83% FT If I had to pick an overall rating that I think he should be at, I'd say 84-85. Lol, kidding - Well, to a point, Definitely off-put though, considering they're almost identical statistically - edge to Parsons on percenatages, definite edge to Batum on defense (Though personally, it feels like athleticism lent defense more than pure defensive know-how) I agree or at least see where you're going on most points, but though BLK/STL should probably be mid-high 60s, low 70s for the meantime, and a Dribbling boost IMO just doesn't feel warranted. Particular point of interest, 3PT. I don't think he should cross 80 for the meantime. he shot 39% last year, but for most, has really just felt like a 35-37% shooter. Frankly, I'm a bit surprised that he's not consistent with the 39/border 40 mark considering Aldridge is good enough to draw more than a few double teams each game. Cutting things short, I see him about 2 points ahead of where I think Parsons should be, 82-83. Funny man, funny man :-) Anyway, for me, the difference comes in how long players have done things or at least shown the ability to do things. Parsons was interesting last year but definitely not to this extent. Batum, on the other hand, has been showing flashes of this all-around game for his entire 4+ year career. He's just actually improved his assist game substantially this year, but other than that, he's doing what he's shown he can do if given the minutes, and now that he's getting these minutes, the stats are boasted up further. If Parsons keeps this up for another year, I got no problem with him bumping up, although as you point out, he's lagging WAAAAY behind in the block department, and half a steal behind Batum as well. As for all of Batum's %'s, they are gonna go up. Look at the 2 games on either side of the one game he missed b/c of injury. In those 4 total games, he's shot 11/35 (31%) from the field and just 6/25 (24%) from 3. Clearly, this early in the year, that has really bumped his overall %'s down. Once he's healthy, I expect he'll go up to at least where he was before injury (43.1% FG and 37.6% from 3 if you take out those 4 games) if not a bit higher, as he had a couple really bad shooting games mixed in with a lot of solid/good games. We'll see. I did hesitate posting Batum b/c it's early in the year where he is finally breaking out, but he has truly been doing everything he is doing this year, just in fewer minutes, in the past, so we are really just rewarding his mpg/role increase, plus his advancement in a few areas like passing/assist and steals. |
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Post by Rubén Magnano on Dec 19, 2012 19:45:06 GMT
hmm, a 65 in passing sounds like a lot for 3.7 apg. Also, his assist to turnover ratio is not that good. 3.7/2.5
I do feel like Batum deserves a boost but i wouldn't go crazy on him. You can also expect his overall to be lower because he is injury prone and hardiness reduces overall a lot.
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Post by Alex English on Dec 19, 2012 21:25:39 GMT
Well, I think you were OK when you mentioned George, but DeRozan/Gallinari/Afflalo are not similar players. Maybe we need a party where we watch some basketball. Even just going on stats...I've already done Batum 16ppg/5.6rpg/3.7apg/1.7spg/1.2bpg with 42% FG (45% in the last 3 years) / 35.3% from 3 (about 37% average last 3 years) / 83% FT George - 16ppg/6.9rpg/3.7apg/1.3spg/.8bpg with 42%FG (44% in last 3 years) / 40% from 3 (been improving definitely) / 81.8% from FT DeRozan - 18ppg/5rpg/2.1apg/1.2spg/.4bpg with 44.7%FG (about his average last 3 years) / 29% from 3 (and that's actually an improvement) / 80.8%FT Gallinari - 16ppg/5.8rpg/2.6apg/.7spg/.5bpg with 40%FG (his average last 3 years basically) / 31% from 3 (about 34% average last 3 years) / 82.2% FT Afflalo - 16ppg/4rpg/2.6apg/.8spg/.2bpg with 45% FG (little below his last 3 year average) / 36% from 3 (little below his average too) / 86.4% FT As I said, I'm OK with Paul George being close to the same rating. Batum better in steals and blocks, but Paul is rebounding and shooting 3's better currently. As for the other 3, the glaring difference is their steal and block numbers, in addition to rebounding (for Afflalo) and assists (for all 3)...plus DeRozan and Gallinari are both struggling from 3... If you really think Afflalo/Gallinari/DeRozan deserve to be on the same level, we've got some problems man. They're at least a few points overall behind, and there are some clear areas where those points should come from. Just overall defense is an advantage to Batum, and that's an entire half of a player's game, so it would be misguided to ignore that. Batum at an 84/85 range, if you want me to say 84, fine. George around there too, yes I'm OK with that. I think we need to stay current with the NBA, and those guys deserve to be there. Gallinari probably like an 81/82 DeRozan's deficiencies (which he is slowly fixing, but still far behind in a few areas) leave him where he is around a 79 Afflalo is more of a pure shooter/scorer, and is clearly behind in many areas, especially the steals/blocks/rebounds. He's a better shooter, but again, overall game, he's a bit behind. If we theoretically had Batum/George around 84/85, then Afflalo would be around 81/82 for me, like Gallinari. As for Rudy Gay, Batum and George are already outperforming him this season, especially in the pass/assist area, and Batum a little advantage in both steal and block. 18.6ppg/6rpg/2.4apg/1.4spg/1bpg with 42% FG (averages closer to 45 usually) /33% from 3 (that's his average basically) / 79% FT That said, Rudy has been doing this (with a little better FG%) for a longer time, so I'm not saying he should be lower. I think he should be probably an 85 as well. He scores more b/c he is allowed to take more shots, but other than that, he's similar across the board, but a worse passer/assist man. I didn't really mean similar in how they play, though I'm not sure how posting the stats did anything considering they're all basically identical apart from a few noticeable areas (Demar 3pt% for example). But I meant more the role they play on their team. If you really do think Batum is noticeably better than those four guys (except for Afflalo maybe, who's definitely the worst of the group) then I guess we do have some problems. Honestly, I think if you had Chandler Parsons and not Batum then apart from the name in the title then this thread would remain largely unchanged. That's a lot less tongue in cheek from me than from Danny too.  I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I'll say Batum is an 81/82 and I'll leave for others to post some points. |
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Post by Walt Frazier on Dec 20, 2012 0:34:08 GMT
hmm, a 65 in passing sounds like a lot for 3.7 apg. Also, his assist to turnover ratio is not that good. 3.7/2.5 I do feel like Batum deserves a boost but i wouldn't go crazy on him. You can also expect his overall to be lower because he is injury prone and hardiness reduces overall a lot. Injury prone? 3 full seasons basically and pretty much full season this year, and 1 year where he missed the first half. If that's injury prone, 70% of the league is probably injury prone. As for the passing...looks like most PG's break into the 80's, and some guys like Ray Allen have broken an 80. I'd say just about 4 assists per game from a guy who is not the primary ball-handler is a pretty decent #. 65 is right about where most non-PG's who have solid assist #'s like that are at, so that's pretty much where I put him. If you want to bring up an issue of re-aligning all the ratings, that's one thing, but I'm just fitting him into where he should be compared to the rest of the league. |
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Post by Walt Frazier on Dec 20, 2012 0:37:40 GMT
Well, I think you were OK when you mentioned George, but DeRozan/Gallinari/Afflalo are not similar players. Maybe we need a party where we watch some basketball. Even just going on stats...I've already done Batum 16ppg/5.6rpg/3.7apg/1.7spg/1.2bpg with 42% FG (45% in the last 3 years) / 35.3% from 3 (about 37% average last 3 years) / 83% FT George - 16ppg/6.9rpg/3.7apg/1.3spg/.8bpg with 42%FG (44% in last 3 years) / 40% from 3 (been improving definitely) / 81.8% from FT DeRozan - 18ppg/5rpg/2.1apg/1.2spg/.4bpg with 44.7%FG (about his average last 3 years) / 29% from 3 (and that's actually an improvement) / 80.8%FT Gallinari - 16ppg/5.8rpg/2.6apg/.7spg/.5bpg with 40%FG (his average last 3 years basically) / 31% from 3 (about 34% average last 3 years) / 82.2% FT Afflalo - 16ppg/4rpg/2.6apg/.8spg/.2bpg with 45% FG (little below his last 3 year average) / 36% from 3 (little below his average too) / 86.4% FT As I said, I'm OK with Paul George being close to the same rating. Batum better in steals and blocks, but Paul is rebounding and shooting 3's better currently. As for the other 3, the glaring difference is their steal and block numbers, in addition to rebounding (for Afflalo) and assists (for all 3)...plus DeRozan and Gallinari are both struggling from 3... If you really think Afflalo/Gallinari/DeRozan deserve to be on the same level, we've got some problems man. They're at least a few points overall behind, and there are some clear areas where those points should come from. Just overall defense is an advantage to Batum, and that's an entire half of a player's game, so it would be misguided to ignore that. Batum at an 84/85 range, if you want me to say 84, fine. George around there too, yes I'm OK with that. I think we need to stay current with the NBA, and those guys deserve to be there. Gallinari probably like an 81/82 DeRozan's deficiencies (which he is slowly fixing, but still far behind in a few areas) leave him where he is around a 79 Afflalo is more of a pure shooter/scorer, and is clearly behind in many areas, especially the steals/blocks/rebounds. He's a better shooter, but again, overall game, he's a bit behind. If we theoretically had Batum/George around 84/85, then Afflalo would be around 81/82 for me, like Gallinari. As for Rudy Gay, Batum and George are already outperforming him this season, especially in the pass/assist area, and Batum a little advantage in both steal and block. 18.6ppg/6rpg/2.4apg/1.4spg/1bpg with 42% FG (averages closer to 45 usually) /33% from 3 (that's his average basically) / 79% FT That said, Rudy has been doing this (with a little better FG%) for a longer time, so I'm not saying he should be lower. I think he should be probably an 85 as well. He scores more b/c he is allowed to take more shots, but other than that, he's similar across the board, but a worse passer/assist man. I didn't really mean similar in how they play, though I'm not sure how posting the stats did anything considering they're all basically identical apart from a few noticeable areas (Demar 3pt% for example). But I meant more the role they play on their team. If you really do think Batum is noticeably better than those four guys (except for Afflalo maybe, who's definitely the worst of the group) then I guess we do have some problems. Honestly, I think if you had Chandler Parsons and not Batum then apart from the name in the title then this thread would remain largely unchanged. That's a lot less tongue in cheek from me than from Danny too. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I'll say Batum is an 81/82 and I'll leave for others to post some points. Fair enough on your opinion on the rating. I do have to reply to one thing, about the whole Parsons thing. You can believe it or not, but I do believe in consistency. Parsons has shown this ability for a couple of months, and in spurts last year. Batum has shown it for 4 years and now has broken out. Also, basically zero blocks from Parsons, and a more average 1.2 spg means I wouldn't even have mentioned those areas in his thread, if I would have made one at all. Again, I don't think I would have made one at all considering he's just barely shown what he can do thus far, and needs to prove it for longer IMO. That's how I've worked in pretty much every rating thread here. I gave Lawson an advantage over Dragic even though their #'s are kind of similar, and I said specifically b/c Lawson has been doing it longer than Dragic. |
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Post by Walt Frazier on Dec 28, 2012 15:32:52 GMT
BTW, Batum's game is evolving as we speak. In the month of December he's got 5.5 assists per game! He's also improved his FT% to 96.8% in December! Steals are still at 1.5, blocks are up to almost 1.5 in December.
He is struggling to find his shot, overall, still, but I have to think with him really finding his stroke at the line, that his normal FG% will be improving soon.
If we do a smaller boost (to 82-83) now, which it seems there is some momentum for at this point, then I'll still be keeping an eye on him for when he deserves another boost.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Jan 9, 2013 16:17:03 GMT
:-) Friendly update
I'm just saying, guy is an absolute STUD! They didn't mention that he's getting to the line 3.3 times per game, and making 95.8% of them! Or, that's he's actually been turning the ball over LESS (2.5 TO/g) while getting more assists! That overall shooting is slowly rounding into form as well: Over the last 8 games, he's at 46% from the Field and 38.9% from 3! And in that time, his TO's have gotten a little better too (2.1 TO/g).
Show some respect to one of the most talented players in the game. Give him a legit boost now, and when he keeps it up for the rest of the season, we'll see where we are then :-)
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Post by Walt Frazier on Jan 15, 2013 21:12:21 GMT
Bueller?
Harden got his update damn quick! lol
Can we get a ruling on some of these other players?
Also, since it's been another month since I started this thread, and he's playing even better than he was at that time, can we get some opinions on his rating now?
I stand by about an 84-85, but I'm comfortable with more like an 82...BUT, if he keeps doing what he's doing, he'd need another boost as soon as the end of this Sim season, if not sooner.
He's playing at an amazing level.
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Post by Alex English on Jan 16, 2013 2:10:50 GMT
Stats:
16.8ppg 5.7rpg 4.3apg 1.5spg 1.1bpg
A little bit of everything. He is definitely playing better, but he isn't amazing at anything, just pretty good at everything. I'd still say the max I would give him is an 83.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Jan 16, 2013 4:04:46 GMT
The amazing thing is that he's THAT good in ALL those areas, including his 3pt and FG% improving thus far.
Other than that, I'm cool with a temporary (in my eyes) bump to 83, and then assuming he keeps doing these things at this super high level across the board, a further boost down the line potentially.
Just wish more people would chime in!
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Post by Walt Frazier on Jan 16, 2013 14:27:38 GMT
Just another non-amazing night, 22 points, 7 boards, 7 assists, 2 steals, 2 3's, shot 47% from the field...yawn.
:-)
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Post by Rubén Magnano on Jan 16, 2013 15:07:26 GMT
Stats: 16.8ppg 5.7rpg 4.3apg 1.5spg 1.1bpg A little bit of everything. He is definitely playing better, but he isn't amazing at anything, just pretty good at everything. I'd still say the max I would give him is an 83. I am fine with 82-83. If his numbers stay up till the end of the season, maybe he deserves a bit more. |
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Post by Ian Noble on Jan 20, 2013 16:24:59 GMT
I am fine with 82-83. If his numbers stay up till the end of the season, maybe he deserves a bit more. Agreed. |
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Magic Johnson
Former Lakers GM
Sophomore
Posts: 458
Feb 27, 2024 20:39:01 GMT
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Post by Magic Johnson on Jan 20, 2013 17:05:24 GMT
I am fine with 82-83. If his numbers stay up till the end of the season, maybe he deserves a bit more. Agreed. solid 82 for right now with potential growth for 85-86 for future if he continues to play well. |
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