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Post by Walt Frazier on Oct 11, 2021 23:22:58 GMT
DETROIT PISTONS Dejounte Murray This one was not easy. And I expect there's a chance at some blow-back. But I walked through all the pros & cons for myself over multiple days and once I did that the decision became pretty clear. The ContractYear 1: $27,000,000 Year 2: $29,025,000 Year 3: $31,050,000 Year 4: $33,075,000 (PO) Total: $120,150,000 The ReasoningMONEY - Well, for one, the money. This is just over $30 million per season, plus the opportunity to opt out after year 3 if that seems beneficial to Dejounte. He's 25 right now, so either way, he has the chance at another very big contract either after year 3 (age 28) or year 4 (age 29). Milwaukee was the other, final team we were deciding between, and they were unwilling to go above $23 million per season. Granted, they offered a 5th year as the Bird Rights team, but at his age we felt that 5th year didn't carry quite as much weight as it might for some other players. In fact, a full 5-year contract takes him into his 30's which, in some ways, is a little detrimental to his next contract. Milwaukee was open to being flexible on years, but again, that money seemed to hit a wall. Whereas Detroit was willing to go to this contract and really pushed the money up at multiple steps along the way. Not to talk poorly of Milwaukee here, but his first offer was about $16M a year, whereas two other teams came in right away in the 22-25M range, one of those Detroit. The other team ended up being eliminated or backing out, and Milwaukee did come up to that $23M / year number, but again, $30M speaks loudly. That said, that's not all. MIL TEAM SET-UP - Milwaukee has, obviously, tore down their team a bit this off-season. Right now, Myles Turner is the leader of the team, and Dejounte could have been a co-leader of the team with Myles, along with an admittedly very solid group of young players. But Dejounte also sees Darius Garland, DAvion Mitchell, and even Monte Morris & RJ Hampton on the roster. You could almost make an argument that Milwaukee has stockpiled some PG options in the event that Dejounte left, or really only wanted Dejounte up to a certain monetary value. DET TEAM SET-UP - Detroit on the other hand seems to be on the way up. They've re-signed Sabonis and have Ayton & Anthony Edwards to help lead things, not to mention Keldon Johnson, Saddiq Bey, Coby White, and Josh Jackson. This is a very solid team with the addition of Dejounte. Chauncey has been making good moves and set himself up well for making a move just like this. He has the cap to overpay (arguably) a bit on Dejounte while still being in a solid place for the next 2-4 years. That's about all we can ask for on Dejounte's end. EFFORT - As for the "Effort" factor, this has to go to Chauncey, too. Just on the count of Replies in our thread, Chauncey and I exchanged about 27 "replies", so 28 total messages, but Glenn and I are at 13 replies, 14 total. Glenn also has not seemed curious enough or interested enough to check in since October 5 (so, 6 days now). I don't say this to shame Glenn or talk ill of him. I think it just shows the reality of the situation here. He didn't want to match the money, he has seemed to shift direction on his team to go younger, and has a lot of younger PG options on his team ready to step in for Dejounte. CAPPING - I considered capping this. That said, I've spoken with Chauncey and he is well aware that this has the potential to be an overpay. But, he knew that was what he would have to do to pry Dejounte away, and he's willing to do it. I trust that he's going to stick around and be committed to this team long-term. I'm ready to take the beating from the public, and I know players leaving their Bird Rights team is rare, but this feels like the right decision, all things considered. Congratulations to Chauncey Billups and the Detroit Pistons! Dejounte is very excited to play the next few years in Detroit and get this team to the upper echelon of the Eastern Conference again!
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Post by Chauncey Billups on Oct 11, 2021 23:35:18 GMT
I just want to thank Walt for his communication throughout the whole process. I know it isn’t easy for all involved, but sometimes that’s just the way it goes.
We came into the off-season with one player in mind, and that was Murray. Welcome to Detroit, Dejounte! Good things are ahead!
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Glenn Robinson
Milwaukee Bucks
Starter
Posts: 1,226
Nov 22, 2024 4:29:32 GMT
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Post by Glenn Robinson on Oct 12, 2021 1:29:34 GMT
Seemed pretty obvious from the get-go that once Dejounte got a massive deal, there was really no bringing him back. Loyalty, fit with team, establishment in organization/culture etc. be damned. It didn't really seem to matter to the PA or Dejounte in the end. Money talked and that's that. Even the roster construction reasoning doesn't hold much water with me considering a lot of those guards listed can play both guard spots or multiple positions in some cases and were in no way threatening/replacing Murray. While it sucks to lose out on such a great talent, I'm not going to be pushed into what I felt like was a raw deal from the jump.
Good luck with everything, Chauncey!
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Post by Arvydas Sabonis on Oct 12, 2021 16:01:04 GMT
In a way his imitates pretty well the RFA process, although we are not doing it actually. If original team matches the highest offer they probably would be able to keep the player.
Of course if MIL would match the money, and PA still decides for a new team, I think that could and should cause a blow back. But like this... I think it's fine with solid other reasoning also
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Oct 13, 2021 0:59:37 GMT
100% support this decision as it's what should happen, I think capping is unfair to the team losing the player. If Glenn only loses out on Murray by a couple million that he perhaps would have been willing to go to the loss would feel much more severe.
These midlevel guys get overpaid to go to bad teams.
Literally all the stuff about effort, team setup, throw it out the window, they should be tertiary to money for players at this level. The expectation for extreme amounts of effort should be reserved for all-star level guys.
IMO, easiest way to do RFA is for everyone to just send a dollar amount to the PA, then PA sends the highest dollar to the team who has the player and then the GM just says yes or no. Would save a LOT of time for our PAs so they could focus on the unrestricted dudes.
Could some bad contracts happen? Yes. That's the NBA.
Anyways, good signing, condolences to Glenn who I'm sure thought Murray was in the bag given he's BR player, but he lost him the same reason I lost Marcus Smart.
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Post by Ian Noble on Oct 13, 2021 17:32:18 GMT
100% support this decision as it's what should happen, I think capping is unfair to the team losing the player. If Glenn only loses out on Murray by a couple million that he perhaps would have been willing to go to the loss would feel much more severe. These midlevel guys get overpaid to go to bad teams. Literally all the stuff about effort, team setup, throw it out the window, they should be tertiary to money for players at this level. The expectation for extreme amounts of effort should be reserved for all-star level guys. IMO, easiest way to do RFA is for everyone to just send a dollar amount to the PA, then PA sends the highest dollar to the team who has the player and then the GM just says yes or no. Would save a LOT of time for our PAs so they could focus on the unrestricted dudes. Could some bad contracts happen? Yes. That's the NBA. Anyways, good signing, condolences to Glenn who I'm sure thought Murray was in the bag given he's BR player, but he lost him the same reason I lost Marcus Smart. "The problem with the world is that the uneducated are overconfident whereas the intelligent are full of doubt." Trust me, this system would destroy every league it touches.
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Oct 13, 2021 23:07:53 GMT
100% support this decision as it's what should happen, I think capping is unfair to the team losing the player. If Glenn only loses out on Murray by a couple million that he perhaps would have been willing to go to the loss would feel much more severe. These midlevel guys get overpaid to go to bad teams. Literally all the stuff about effort, team setup, throw it out the window, they should be tertiary to money for players at this level. The expectation for extreme amounts of effort should be reserved for all-star level guys. IMO, easiest way to do RFA is for everyone to just send a dollar amount to the PA, then PA sends the highest dollar to the team who has the player and then the GM just says yes or no. Would save a LOT of time for our PAs so they could focus on the unrestricted dudes. Could some bad contracts happen? Yes. That's the NBA. Anyways, good signing, condolences to Glenn who I'm sure thought Murray was in the bag given he's BR player, but he lost him the same reason I lost Marcus Smart. "The problem with the world is that the uneducated are overconfident whereas the intelligent are full of doubt." Trust me, this system would destroy every league it touches. Yeah, but it WOULD be easier...
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Post by Andrei Kirilenko on May 10, 2022 16:18:40 GMT
Just want to point out, for all you vultures, that Detroit did not promise Murray a starting position anywhere in this signing.
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Post by Jerry West on May 10, 2022 16:30:29 GMT
Just want to point out, for all you vultures, that Detroit did not promise Murray a starting position anywhere in this signing. Let me go change my Giannis signing real quick to make sure I explited stated that a starting spot was promised during negotiations to the player who I just signed for 30+ Million a year. It does not have to be posted in the post, it's not in the rules.
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Post by Chauncey Billups on May 10, 2022 16:42:21 GMT
Just want to point out, for all you vultures, that Detroit did not promise Murray a starting position anywhere in this signing. Vultures gonna vult
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Post by Andrei Kirilenko on May 10, 2022 16:43:20 GMT
Just want to point out, for all you vultures, that Detroit did not promise Murray a starting position anywhere in this signing. Let me go change my Giannis signing real quick to make sure I explited stated that a starting spot was promised during negotiations to the player who I just signed for 30+ Million a year. It does not have to be posted in the post, it's not in the rules. I didn't say it did. I said its not posted here. And I'm not sure it even matters anyway. Per our rules, if he did promise Murray a starting position and break that promise, then Chauncey would be informed about it. After 30 days passes, Chauncey then has 30 additional days to find a trade for Murray. But our playoffs will be over 60 days from now, so its all a moot point.
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Post by Ian Noble on May 10, 2022 17:16:12 GMT
Walt Frazier worth investigating whether Dejounte received any kind of promise if/when you get the time to fish through your old negotiations.
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Post by Chauncey Billups on May 10, 2022 17:32:22 GMT
Walt Frazier worth investigating whether Dejounte received any kind of promise if/when you get the time to fish through your old negotiations. I definitely mentioned him starting. He’ll be in the starting unit Unless we want to debate what a promise means. That would be fun
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Post by Andrei Kirilenko on May 10, 2022 17:43:07 GMT
I do think we should clarify this summer what exactly this rule means:
If that month passes and the player has not been traded, the player is benched onto the Injured Reserve indefinitely and a contract buyout will be reached, leaving the player to join free agency.
What does "contract buyout will be reached" actually mean? Does that mean the full contract will become dead salary? Or some lesser amount? And who determines that? A player agent?
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Post by Walt Frazier on May 20, 2022 1:23:33 GMT
Walt Frazier worth investigating whether Dejounte received any kind of promise if/when you get the time to fish through your old negotiations. Well, fwiw, the very first "offer" was actually a 3-sentence "we're interested" type of thing. The first sentence ended with "... we're very interested in bringing Murray on board as our starting PG." Second message, the official offer, "...immediately inherit the starting PG position". Later: "...fits right into the starting PG position." Spelled out the starting 5 to include Dejounte. Mentioned the starting 5 and Murray being part of it 4 times in this post. That said, I don't think the word "promise" was uttered, but it was heavily, heavily implied and understood he was going there to start. I know I'm late getting to this, just wanted to let y'all know.
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Post by James Kay on May 20, 2022 1:30:41 GMT
Walt Frazier worth investigating whether Dejounte received any kind of promise if/when you get the time to fish through your old negotiations. Well, fwiw, the very first "offer" was actually a 3-sentence "we're interested" type of thing. The first sentence ended with "... we're very interested in bringing Murray on board as our starting PG." Second message, the official offer, "...immediately inherit the starting PG position". Later: "...fits right into the starting PG position." Spelled out the starting 5 to include Dejounte. Mentioned the starting 5 and Murray being part of it 4 times in this post. That said, I don't think the word "promise" was uttered, but it was heavily, heavily implied and understood he was going there to start. I know I'm late getting to this, just wanted to let y'all know. I don’t think the word promise has to be used. We’re not writing real contracts here. If a player pitch references a starting position, that’s a promise.
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Post by Ian Noble on May 20, 2022 8:15:18 GMT
^^ what James Kay said. Either way Chauncey is starting Dejounte Murray anyway, so it's a non-issue for now.
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