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Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on Feb 26, 2020 2:25:40 GMT
Apparently Devin Booker is quicker, has a higher speed, is a better jumper, is stronger, is less easily fatigued, and has a better handle than Russell Westbrook. James is talking about the attributes that forms the overall rating. Now that I may have found someone who could back me up in this movement of emphasizing the attributes, it is time to bring out some discussions about players that you may want to have a high number (88 for Devin) beside their name but is not actually the accurate representation of what he is. If you check the attributes of Devin, I think he is overrated in these areas. That means the Devin Booker of D5 is a better version of the Devin Booker of real life. Connecting that to what James said, just think of him as Booker's skillset in real life in a Westbrook body. DAWare: 72 (he should be around 60) Speed: 94 (he should be around 77) Quick: 94 (he should be around 75) Strong: 68 (he should be around 60) Fatigue: 95 (he should be around 80) If you really think Devin Booker is an 88, kindly tell us where to put the ''extra" points in those overrated attributes. |
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Post by Josh Barber on Feb 26, 2020 2:48:08 GMT
It’s fine if you want to start doing this or join the ratings committee to help Walt, but there’s about 300 other players you need to analyze too before posting threads like this about random players.
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Post by Jared Montini on Feb 26, 2020 2:51:59 GMT
This shouldn't be allowed.I can literally nitpick any person in the league on a category, this is really dumb.
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Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on Feb 26, 2020 5:19:12 GMT
This shouldn't be allowed.I can literally nitpick any person in the league on a category, this is really dumb. You can nitpick and let us see if the voters believe you. Actually, if you are just nitpicking, I expect it to result to a no-change, but if it is an obvious one, like this one, I hope the story will be different. |
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Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on Feb 26, 2020 5:27:47 GMT
I am proposing for a overall rating change for Devin Booker because his current 88 overall rating has given us a better version of him than in real life.
By the way, I am not proposing a change in system or what, I am just basically pointing out that the 88 of Devin is higher than what he should be in D5.
Yes. Way different than the usual " he should be lower because his game in real life has been worse". But still on point in the goal of stockwatch, which is to give the right rating that will simulate in D5 what that player is doing in real life.
My little movement is simple, please everyone, recognized that the overall rating is just a by-product of the attributes and those attributes have limits!
So, what is dumb in trying to correct a mistake?
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James Kay
 Charlotte Hornets
All Star
Posts: 2,790
Jun 8, 2023 22:04:20 GMT
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Post by James Kay on Feb 26, 2020 5:41:46 GMT
Agreed with Jared and Josh that that posting a single player like this isn't really appropriate, there are a decent amount of these players where adjustments are probably required. That being said, there appears to be (finally) a growing consensus that OVR rating points are poor representations of the actual performance profiles of those players. I think a meaningful discussion about possible solutions to this is warranted.
On a /somewhat/ related note, I am curious what the league thinks re: Westbrook. He's had an insane ~2 months after recovering from his injuries and Houston making some adjustments, and I think that his ratings are a poor reflection of who he is. (This is also a good example to do a deep dive into individual ratings). He is currently rated: 30th in handle, 12th in quick, 13th in speed, 8th in jump, 13th in fatigue, 21st in steal, makes sense as he's 12th in the league this year in steals 16th in Off. Aware, 119th in Def. Awareness, 291st in block, 341st in 3PT, 218th in Inside, 92nd in FG, 170th in strength, and 126th in ORebd. Maybe too high: O. Aware (but not by much IMO, say 3-5 ratings points), especially given how this stat influences scoring and %s. Reasonable: Handle, Quick, Speed, Jump, Fatigue, Steal, Def. Aware, Block, 3PT. IMO Westbrook has a strong argument to be the very quickest/fastest/most explosive player in the league, but he's 12, 13, and 8 in those categories so I won't belabor them, that's reasonable. He's 12th in steals so 21st in steal rating is also reasonable. 119th in Def. Awareness seems to accurately represent his shortcomings on that side, and he's never been a standout block-getter. 341st in 3PT seems to very accurately represent how poor of a shooter he is from deep. That being said, he can make them, unlike rim-running Centers or Ben Simmons, so I don't really think even lower is appropriate (32% on 1.8 3PA over the past month).
Maybe too low: Strength, O. Reb. He's a guard, and so strength rating should naturally trend low, but 170th seems a little "too" low for this man who is probably one of the top "sculpted" players in the league. He bullies all other PGs in the post. He's also 41st IRL for O. Reb which is not really well-represented with his 126th ranking for O. Reb. in D5. Definitely too low: My main gripe is that he is currently rated 218th in Inside Scr and 92nd in FG. Like, I get that his 3PT shot is not good, but there's a whole stat for that. My man is 7th in the league in scoring and has a higher FG%, 46.4%, (albeit not TS% - see, 3PT%) than players 8,6,5,4,2, and 1 on that list. For the season. Looking at the past 2 months he's even more insane, at 4th in scoring with a FG% of 51.6%. He simply needs way more points in these areas. How are we rating a top 10 scorer in the NBA at 218th and 92nd. And if you think it's because of his time with Harden, think again. He's scoring more at a higher percentage when Harden is off the floor than when Harden shares the floor with Westbrook. Link.
A player like Westbrook, who is pretty indisputably a top 5 athlete in the league right now, will simply need more ratings points than players who score similarly with less athleticism and a less well-rounded game.
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Post by Jared Montini on Feb 26, 2020 6:02:29 GMT
I am proposing for a overall rating change for Devin Booker because his current 88 overall rating has given us a better version of him than in real life. By the way, I am not proposing a change in system or what, I am just basically pointing out that the 88 of Devin is higher than what he should be in D5. Yes. Way different than the usual " he should be lower because his game in real life has been worse". But still on point in the goal of stockwatch, which is to give the right rating that will simulate in D5 what that player is doing in real life. My little movement is simple, please everyone, recognized that the overall rating is just a by-product of the attributes and those attributes have limits! So, what is dumb in trying to correct a mistake? Devin Booker is literally putting up exactly what he does in real life on super similar percentages |
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Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on Feb 26, 2020 6:37:54 GMT
Agreed with Jared and Josh that that posting a single player like this isn't really appropriate, there are a decent amount of these players where adjustments are probably required. That being said, there appears to be (finally) a growing consensus that OVR rating points are poor representations of the actual performance profiles of those players. I think a meaningful discussion about possible solutions to this is warranted.
On a /somewhat/ related note, I am curious what the league thinks re: Westbrook. He's had an insane ~2 months after recovering from his injuries and Houston making some adjustments, and I think that his ratings are a poor reflection of who he is. (This is also a good example to do a deep dive into individual ratings). He is currently rated: 30th in handle, 12th in quick, 13th in speed, 8th in jump, 13th in fatigue, 21st in steal, makes sense as he's 12th in the league this year in steals 16th in Off. Aware, 119th in Def. Awareness, 291st in block, 341st in 3PT, 218th in Inside, 92nd in FG, 170th in strength, and 126th in ORebd. Maybe too high: O. Aware (but not by much IMO, say 3-5 ratings points), especially given how this stat influences scoring and %s. Reasonable: Handle, Quick, Speed, Jump, Fatigue, Steal, Def. Aware, Block, 3PT. IMO Westbrook has a strong argument to be the very quickest/fastest/most explosive player in the league, but he's 12, 13, and 8 in those categories so I won't belabor them, that's reasonable. He's 12th in steals so 21st in steal rating is also reasonable. 119th in Def. Awareness seems to accurately represent his shortcomings on that side, and he's never been a standout block-getter. 341st in 3PT seems to very accurately represent how poor of a shooter he is from deep. That being said, he can make them, unlike rim-running Centers or Ben Simmons, so I don't really think even lower is appropriate (32% on 1.8 3PA over the past month).
Maybe too low: Strength, O. Reb. He's a guard, and so strength rating should naturally trend low, but 170th seems a little "too" low for this man who is probably one of the top "sculpted" players in the league. He bullies all other PGs in the post. He's also 41st IRL for O. Reb which is not really well-represented with his 126th ranking for O. Reb. in D5. Definitely too low: My main gripe is that he is currently rated 218th in Inside Scr and 92nd in FG. Like, I get that his 3PT shot is not good, but there's a whole stat for that. My man is 7th in the league in scoring and has a higher FG%, 46.4%, (albeit not TS% - see, 3PT%) than players 8,6,5,4,2, and 1 on that list. For the season. Looking at the past 2 months he's even more insane, at 4th in scoring with a FG% of 51.6%. He simply needs way more points in these areas. How are we rating a top 10 scorer in the NBA at 218th and 92nd. And if you think it's because of his time with Harden, think again. He's scoring more at a higher percentage when Harden is off the floor than when Harden shares the floor with Westbrook. Link. A player like Westbrook, who is pretty indisputably a top 5 athlete in the league right now, will simply need more ratings points than players who score similarly with less athleticism and a less well-rounded game.
Then, let us put a stockwatch for those players too. Not correcting a mistake just because there is a lot of it doesn't make it right. Then, let us put a stockwatch for those players too. Not correcting a mistake just because there is a lot of it doesn't make it right. |
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Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on Feb 26, 2020 6:38:53 GMT
I am proposing for a overall rating change for Devin Booker because his current 88 overall rating has given us a better version of him than in real life. By the way, I am not proposing a change in system or what, I am just basically pointing out that the 88 of Devin is higher than what he should be in D5. Yes. Way different than the usual " he should be lower because his game in real life has been worse". But still on point in the goal of stockwatch, which is to give the right rating that will simulate in D5 what that player is doing in real life. My little movement is simple, please everyone, recognized that the overall rating is just a by-product of the attributes and those attributes have limits! So, what is dumb in trying to correct a mistake? Devin Booker is literally putting up exactly what he does in real life on super similar percentages You can ask Ian and Walt if you can trust their stats in D5. |
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Feb 26, 2020 11:48:13 GMT
88
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Post by Josh Barber on Feb 26, 2020 13:26:59 GMT
If all of this is secretly just a Russell Westbrook raise thread, can you just post that instead and save us all the hassle?  On a serious note, we legitimately do have a ratings committee whose exact purpose is to distribute overall ratings to different stat categories. Walt is the only one who has participated in years because we all realized he was the best / most consistent at it, so he basically just runs it by himself. It sounds like what you guys want is to be on the committee, no? And as for Booker, as others have pointed out, he’s really the wrong guy to pick on because his D5 stats are eerily similar to his real life stats. I understand that this thread came about by comparing his athletic ratings to Westbrook, but Booker is a pretty athletic guy himself and there’s a hundred other guys and 20 other stat categories that probably make more sense to nitpick at before Booker, if that’s really the route you want to go. |
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James Kay
Charlotte Hornets
All Star
Posts: 2,790
Jun 8, 2023 22:04:20 GMT
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Post by James Kay on Feb 26, 2020 13:43:01 GMT
If all of this is secretly just a Russell Westbrook raise thread, can you just post that instead and save us all the hassle? It sounds like what you guys want is to be on the committee, no? I didn’t make this thread lol I just tried to hijack it for myself |
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Post by Jerry West on Feb 26, 2020 13:51:27 GMT
Look I think I voted 85 for Booker or something but let's be real, this guy runs a lot. He has the 2nd most miles covered in the NBA, you can't do that without great stamina. Fun fact only forward on the Top 10? Harrison Barnes, make him a 99.
He still sucks at defense Josh, fight me
/photo/1
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Post by Jared Montini on Feb 26, 2020 14:08:20 GMT
If all of this is secretly just a Russell Westbrook raise thread, can you just post that instead and save us all the hassle? It sounds like what you guys want is to be on the committee, no? I didn’t make this thread lol I just tried to hijack it for myself I respect it lol |
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Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on Feb 26, 2020 22:09:13 GMT
85.
As expected no one actually listens. Even if it is already clear that we have a better Devin Booker in D5 than in real life.
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Post by Josh Barber on Feb 26, 2020 22:17:58 GMT
85. As expected no one actually listens. Even if it is already clear that we have a better Devin Booker in D5 than in real life. 26.3 ppg / 6.4 apg / 3.7 rpg / 50/40/90 splits Real Booker:26.3 ppg / 6.4 apg / 4.2 rpg / 50/36/92 splits Seems almost spookily accurate to me |
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Post by Josh Barber on Feb 26, 2020 22:24:34 GMT
Can we just trash this thread Ian Noble ? This isn't in the spirit of any stockwatch we have ever had before and clearly has no basis in reality. |
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Post by Jared Montini on Feb 26, 2020 23:07:54 GMT
85. As expected no one actually listens. Even if it is already clear that we have a better Devin Booker in D5 than in real life. 26.3 ppg / 6.4 apg / 3.7 rpg / 50/40/90 splits Real Booker:26.3 ppg / 6.4 apg / 4.2 rpg / 50/36/92 splits Seems almost spookily accurate to me I stated that earlier, I think Booker might actually have the closest difference between IRL and D5 stats. When I looked it up I almost didn’t believe lol, this thread has to go |
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Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on Feb 26, 2020 23:14:24 GMT
Can we just trash this thread Ian Noble ? This isn't in the spirit of any stockwatch we have ever had before and clearly has no basis in reality. Wait. What is the spirit of stockwatch? State it. |
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Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on Feb 26, 2020 23:14:56 GMT
D5 Booker:26.3 ppg / 6.4 apg / 3.7 rpg / 50/40/90 splits Real Booker:26.3 ppg / 6.4 apg / 4.2 rpg / 50/36/92 splits Seems almost spookily accurate to me I stated that earlier, I think Booker might actually have the closest difference between IRL and D5 stats. When I looked it up I almost didn’t believe lol, this thread has to go Again. Ask Walt and Ian about the value of the D5 stats! |
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Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on Feb 26, 2020 23:18:26 GMT
85. As expected no one actually listens. Even if it is already clear that we have a better Devin Booker in D5 than in real life. 26.3 ppg / 6.4 apg / 3.7 rpg / 50/40/90 splits Real Booker:26.3 ppg / 6.4 apg / 4.2 rpg / 50/36/92 splits Seems almost spookily accurate to me Is Devin Booker deserving of those physical attributes sir? If not and you want him to be retained at 88, where will we put those attribute points sir? |
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Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on Feb 26, 2020 23:19:08 GMT
So, you mean he is deserving of those ratings in his physicals sir? |
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Post by Jared Montini on Feb 26, 2020 23:28:40 GMT
Apparently Devin Booker is quicker, has a higher speed, is a better jumper, is stronger, is less easily fatigued, and has a better handle than Russell Westbrook. James is talking about the attributes that forms the overall rating. Now that I may have found someone who could back me up in this movement of emphasizing the attributes, it is time to bring out some discussions about players that you may want to have a high number (88 for Devin) beside their name but is not actually the accurate representation of what he is. If you check the attributes of Devin, I think he is overrated in these areas. That means the Devin Booker of D5 is a better version of the Devin Booker of real life. Connecting that to what James said, just think of him as Booker's skillset in real life in a Westbrook body. DAWare: 72 (he should be around 60) Speed: 94 (he should be around 77) Quick: 94 (he should be around 75) Strong: 68 (he should be around 60) Fatigue: 95 (he should be around 80) If you really think Devin Booker is an 88, kindly tell us where to put the ''extra" points in those overrated attributes. Lavine has 71 D aware I think that’s too high, should I make a thread ? Like come on lol, Booker is not overpowered in the sim. He’s not scoring 40 a game or some crazy stuff like that. The way you just made this stock watch makes it even easier to attack individual players. |
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Feb 26, 2020 23:35:22 GMT
So, you mean he is deserving of those ratings in his physicals sir? I mean this thread is absolutely idiotic sir |
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Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on Feb 26, 2020 23:39:17 GMT
James is talking about the attributes that forms the overall rating. Now that I may have found someone who could back me up in this movement of emphasizing the attributes, it is time to bring out some discussions about players that you may want to have a high number (88 for Devin) beside their name but is not actually the accurate representation of what he is. If you check the attributes of Devin, I think he is overrated in these areas. That means the Devin Booker of D5 is a better version of the Devin Booker of real life. Connecting that to what James said, just think of him as Booker's skillset in real life in a Westbrook body. DAWare: 72 (he should be around 60) Speed: 94 (he should be around 77) Quick: 94 (he should be around 75) Strong: 68 (he should be around 60) Fatigue: 95 (he should be around 80) If you really think Devin Booker is an 88, kindly tell us where to put the ''extra" points in those overrated attributes. Lavine has 71 D aware I think that’s too high, should I make a thread ? Like come on lol, Booker is not overpowered in the sim. He’s not scoring 40 a game or some crazy stuff like that. The way you just made this stock watch makes it even easier to attack individual players. Okay. Let me tell you what Ian have been telling everybody for a while now. In the sim, it will first determine the result of the game and then simply distribute the numbers to the players. It is not a good basis for stockwatch. Am I right Ian Noble? And even in real life, we know that what we see in the boxscore do not justify the real value of the player. Did I just point out a single attribute? I point out five attributes. |
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Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on Feb 26, 2020 23:39:40 GMT
So, you mean he is deserving of those ratings in his physicals sir? I mean this thread is absolutely idiotic sir Why? |
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