Amare Stoudemire
 Sacramento Kings
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Posts: 2,416 
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Post by Amare Stoudemire on Feb 23, 2020 15:50:25 GMT
Current Rating: 85
Suggested Rating: 82
Stats:
27.1 mpg, 10.9 ppg, 9.4 rpg, 2.6 apg, 0.6 spg, 0.8 bpg, 58.0 FG%, 59.7 FT%
Aquaman isn't swimming quite as fast anymore
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Post by George Gervin on Feb 23, 2020 16:41:20 GMT
83
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Post by Jared Montini on Feb 23, 2020 16:47:39 GMT
82
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Post by Tom Izzo on Feb 23, 2020 16:49:33 GMT
Lmao - Amare messaged me saying he wished I didn't get better since he owns my pick now and then I said I'm hoping to make a deep playoff push and he replied with "until Adams gets stock watched"
The vindictive nature of some of the people here is annoyingly frustrating.
But since you want to talk about Adams, let's do it.
His PER of 20.62 is the highest of his whole career. It's over 2 points higher than last year.
His TS% is up from last year, an increase of .5% - 59.1% vs 59.6%
His assist rate is the highest it's ever been - 19.4 - nearly doubled from last year!
His rebound rate this year is also the highest it's ever been - 19.3. 5 point increase from last year
He's playing in 6 less minutes a game this year.
His PER 36 numbers from last year: 14.9 PPG/10.3 RPG/1.7 APG/1.0 BPG
His PER 36 numbers from this year: 14.4 PPG/12.5 RPG/3.4 APG/1.5 BPG
His Win Shares/48 is the second highest of his career, and a 20 point increase from last year.
His Box/Plus Minus is the highest of his career ever, 4.6. Last year it was 2.7. Nearly doubled.
His usage rate is also the highest it's ever been, meaning the team is relying on him more this year.
And his Thunder are 34-22 in the stacked West.
I mean, Adams is clearly playing the same he's always played in some areas, and actually improved in other areas. He's a major factor on a playoff bound team, has NOT in fact regressed whatsoever, and may have even improved.
This is just another salty and vindictive attempt by Amare to undercut his competition.
No change for Steven Adams. I might even see an argument for an 86, tbh
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Post by Tom Izzo on Feb 23, 2020 16:52:59 GMT
Steven Adams is playing just as well as he's always played if not better. This whole thread is a ton of BS. Adams is playing less minutes this year. His PER is the highest it's ever been, his rebound and assist rates are at all time highs, the list goes on. If we vote to lower a player who is basically the same, or better in some areas, that's completely absurd. |
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Post by Jerry West on Feb 23, 2020 16:58:32 GMT
82
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Amare Stoudemire
Sacramento Kings
Starter
Posts: 2,416
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Post by Amare Stoudemire on Feb 23, 2020 17:01:57 GMT
Lmao - Amare messaged me saying he wished I didn't get better since he owns my pick now and then I said I'm hoping to make a deep playoff push and he replied with "until Adams gets stock watched" The vindictive nature of some of the people here is annoyingly frustrating. But since you want to talk about Adams, let's do it. His PER of 20.62 is the highest of his whole career. It's over 2 points higher than last year. His TS% is up from last year, an increase of .5% - 59.1% vs 59.6% His assist rate is the highest it's ever been - 19.4 - nearly doubled from last year! His rebound rate this year is also the highest it's ever been - 19.3. 5 point increase from last year He's playing in 6 less minutes a game this year. His PER 36 numbers from last year: 14.9 PPG/10.3 RPG/1.7 APG/1.0 BPG His PER 36 numbers from this year: 14.4 PPG/12.5 RPG/3.4 APG/1.5 BPG His Win Shares/48 is the second highest of his career, and a 20 point increase from last year. His Box/Plus Minus is the highest of his career ever, 4.6. Last year it was 2.7. Nearly doubled. His usage rate is also the highest it's ever been, meaning the team is relying on him more this year. And his Thunder are 34-22 in the stacked West. I mean, Adams is clearly playing the same he's always played in some areas, and actually improved in other areas. He's a major factor on a playoff bound team, has NOT in fact regressed whatsoever, and may have even improved. This is just another salty and vindictive attempt by Amare to undercut his competition. No change for Steven Adams. I might even see an argument for an 86, tbh Oh stop it, Drummond,love,etc got stock watched as well lol I also stockwatched Aldridge so I guess I'm against philly too lmao |
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Post by Tom Izzo on Feb 23, 2020 17:20:31 GMT
Andre Drummond/Steven Adams:
Off Rating:
Steven Adams: 111.2
Andre Drummond: 107.0
Defense rating:
Steven Adams: 106.6
Andre Drummond: 111.8
Net rating for Andre Drummond: -4.8
Net rating for Steven Adams: +4.7
Assist ratio:
Steven Adams: 19.5
Andre Drummond: 12.3
Rebound percentage:
Steven Adams: 17.3
Andre Drummond: 23.4
eFG%:
Steven Adams: 58.1
Andre Drummond: 53.3
TS%:
Steven Adams: 59.6
Andre Drummond: 55.0
Andre Drummond: Going to be rated 85.
My point here is that Adams is far better than Drummond in nearly every category, except rebounding. And yet people are voting for Drummond to be 3+ rating points higher??
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Amare Stoudemire
Sacramento Kings
Starter
Posts: 2,416
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Post by Amare Stoudemire on Feb 23, 2020 17:34:14 GMT
Andre Drummond/Steven Adams: Off Rating: Steven Adams: 111.2 Andre Drummond: 107.0 Defense rating: Steven Adams: 106.6 Andre Drummond: 111.8 Net rating for Andre Drummond: -4.8 Net rating for Steven Adams: +4.7 Assist ratio: Steven Adams: 19.5 Andre Drummond: 12.3 Rebound percentage: Steven Adams: 17.3 Andre Drummond: 23.4 eFG%: Steven Adams: 58.1 Andre Drummond: 53.3 TS%: Steven Adams: 59.6 Andre Drummond: 55.0 Andre Drummond: Going to be rated 85. My point here is that Adams is far better than Drummond in nearly every category, except rebounding. And yet people are voting for Drummond to be 3+ rating points higher?? Dude these are stock watches, with everyone having a opinion! All the big men have been stockwatched Quit making this about you and me |
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Post by Tom Izzo on Feb 23, 2020 17:39:02 GMT
I'm just saying that of the two, Adams is the better player and the numbers back it up. And Drummond is going to be an 85.
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Amare Stoudemire
Sacramento Kings
Starter
Posts: 2,416
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Post by Amare Stoudemire on Feb 23, 2020 17:42:58 GMT
I'm just saying that of the two, Adams is the better player and the numbers back it up. And Drummond is going to be an 85. Their just personal opinions Tom, it's not a attack on you bro! |
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Amare Stoudemire
Sacramento Kings
Starter
Posts: 2,416
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Post by Amare Stoudemire on Feb 23, 2020 18:38:43 GMT
I'm just saying that of the two, Adams is the better player and the numbers back it up. And Drummond is going to be an 85. Their just personal opinions Tom, it's not a attack on you bro! Also as a big man, wouldn't playing less minutes give them less fatigue which would ultimately make some percentage numbers look better than if they were playing more minutes? Maybe I'm wrong on that logic of thinking |
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Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on Feb 23, 2020 22:03:28 GMT
Andre Drummond/Steven Adams: Off Rating: Steven Adams: 111.2 Andre Drummond: 107.0 Defense rating: Steven Adams: 106.6 Andre Drummond: 111.8 Net rating for Andre Drummond: -4.8 Net rating for Steven Adams: +4.7 Assist ratio: Steven Adams: 19.5 Andre Drummond: 12.3 Rebound percentage: Steven Adams: 17.3 Andre Drummond: 23.4 eFG%: Steven Adams: 58.1 Andre Drummond: 53.3 TS%: Steven Adams: 59.6 Andre Drummond: 55.0 Andre Drummond: Going to be rated 85. My point here is that Adams is far better than Drummond in nearly every category, except rebounding. And yet people are voting for Drummond to be 3+ rating points higher?? This may not mean that Adams should not be decreased. I see it more that Drummond should be decreased. |
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Post by Tom Izzo on Feb 23, 2020 23:03:24 GMT
I think 84-86 for both Drummond and Adams is pretty fair. They're in the same tier. That was my point
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Post by Andrei Kirilenko on Feb 23, 2020 23:22:27 GMT
I agree that he has not regressed this season, but Adams is definitely a role player and is currently being rated like a borderline allstar. Adams is good at what he does, but he is lacking the talent set of other big men rated at the 85 level.
For instance, Kristaps is also rated at an 85 but has 70 ratings points tied up in 3p shooting. Since every 15 ratings points = 1 overall rating, this means 4.66 overall ratings for KP are going into 3p shooting. So looking at it that way, KP is basically an 80 overall who can also shoot threes.
By that logic, Adams is basically rated 5 points higher than Porzingis because he doesn't need any ratings points to go into 3p shooting (and we've set his tendency to not shoot any threes). If you think about it, he has the same ratings in every single other category as a 90 rated big man who does shoot threes. That's why he puts up ridiculous stats in D5 and honestly needs a major decrease.
If you look back at original Live 06 ratings, guys like Adams were typically in the 77-78 range for this very reason. We tend to rate players on "Overall" at D5 without thinking about categories, and to be honest, an 85 Overall for Adams was always too high to begin with. Everyone likes him as a player, but at the end of the day 11 ppg and 9 rpg with a limited skill-set shouldn't really get you into the 80s in Live 06.
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Amare Stoudemire
Sacramento Kings
Starter
Posts: 2,416
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Post by Amare Stoudemire on Feb 24, 2020 0:09:21 GMT
Since Tom wants so badly to make this about Drummond vs Adams LETS DO IT!
Andre Drummond 19-20 season
33.1mpg/.537fg%(13.6attempts)/.115%3p(0.5 attempts) 58%ft(5attempts)/15.5rpg/2.7apg/1.9spg/1.6bpg/17.4ppg
21.9 per/.550true/25.5usage/4.1ws/2.1vorp
Steven Adams 19-20 season
27.1mpg/.580fg%(7.8attempts).333%3p(1 attempt whole career) 60%ft(3.1attempts)
9.4rpg/2.6apg/0.8spg/1.2bpg/10.9ppg
20.6per/.596true/17.3usage/5.3ws/2.2vorp
Yes Adams and Drummond are close in alot of areas except Drummond plays 6 more minutes, scores 6.5 more ppg, and gets 6.1 more rebounds a game, 1.1 more spg, 0.4 bpg
Theirs your difference!
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Post by Tom Izzo on Feb 24, 2020 0:12:08 GMT
I agree that he has not regressed this season, but Adams is definitely a role player and is currently being rated like a borderline allstar. Adams is good at what he does, but he is lacking the talent set of other big men rated at the 85 level. For instance, Kristaps is also rated at an 85 but has 70 ratings points tied up in 3p shooting. Since every 15 ratings points = 1 overall rating, this means 4.66 overall ratings for KP are going into 3p shooting. So looking at it that way, KP is basically an 80 overall who can also shoot threes. By that logic, Adams is basically rated 5 points higher than Porzingis because he doesn't need any ratings points to go into 3p shooting (and we've set his tendency to not shoot any threes). If you think about it, he has the same ratings in every single other category as a 90 rated big man who does shoot threes. That's why he puts up ridiculous stats in D5 and honestly needs a major decrease. If you look back at original Live 06 ratings, guys like Adams were typically in the 77-78 range for this very reason. We tend to rate players on "Overall" at D5 without thinking about categories, and to be honest, an 85 Overall for Adams was always too high to begin with. Everyone likes him as a player, but at the end of the day 11 ppg and 9 rpg with a limited skill-set shouldn't really get you into the 80s in Live 06. Draymond Green is averaging much worse numbers on a far worse team and was given an 82. You can compare Draymond Green to Steven Adams here. The summary of it is that Adams beats Green on every advanced category with the exception of assist ratio. This cumulates in an overall NET rating difference of over 11 points in favor of Adams and a PIE difference of over 3 points in favor of Adams. Clint Capela is a similar player to Adams. 13 PPG/13 RPG/20.7 PER. Rated 85. Kevin Love just got rated an 83. 17.5 PPG/9.6 RPG/18.05 PER - on the Cavaliers. Rudy Gobert, PER 36: 16.2 PPG/15.0 RPG/1.6 APG/2.0 BPG - rated 87 Steven Adams, PER 36: 14.4 PPG/12.5 RPG/3.4 APG/1.5 BPG ==> Player Vote Rankings for Western Conference All-Star Front Court: 1. LeBron James 2. Anthony Davis 3. Kawhi Leonard 4. Nikola Jokic 5. Paul George 6. Brandon Ingram 7. Carmelo Anthony (seems like a legacy/respect thing here) 8. LaMarcus Aldridge 9. Steven Adams9. Rudy Gobert 11. Kristaps Porzingis 12. Bojan Bogdanovic 13. Karl Anthony Towns 14. Montrezl Harrell 14. Jaren Jackson Jr 16. Kelly Oubre Jr 17. Danilo Gallinari 18. Draymond Green Take out the respect/legacy Carmelo votes and Adams is tied at 8th with Rudy Gobert, and ahead of KAT, Kristaps, Draymond...Seems like he quite literally is a border-line All-Star. |
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Post by Tom Izzo on Feb 24, 2020 0:18:50 GMT
Since Tom wants so badly to make this about Drummond vs Adams LETS DO IT! Andre Drummond 19-20 season 33.1mpg/.537fg%(13.6attempts)/.115%3p(0.5 attempts) 58%ft(5attempts)/15.5rpg/2.7apg/1.9spg/1.6bpg/17.4ppg 21.9 per/.550true/25.5usage/4.1ws/2.1vorp Steven Adams 19-20 season 27.1mpg/.580fg%(7.8attempts).333%3p(1 attempt whole career) 60%ft(3.1attempts) 9.4rpg/2.6apg/0.8spg/1.2bpg/10.9ppg 20.6per/.596true/17.3usage/5.3ws/2.2vorp Yes Adams and Drummond are close in alot of areas except Drummond plays 6 more minutes, scores 6.5 more ppg, and gets 6.1 more rebounds a game, 1.1 more spg, 0.4 bpg Theirs your difference! On the trash Pistons without Blake Griffin. Which, I am not saying Drummond isn't a talented player - because he is definitely talented. My argument is they are in the same tier. |
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Amare Stoudemire
Sacramento Kings
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Posts: 2,416
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Post by Amare Stoudemire on Feb 24, 2020 0:20:58 GMT
No they are not bro, I'm not saying their not close but Drummond obviously does more
Proof is in the pudding!
If Adams was as good why is he not playing the same minutes as Andre?
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Amare Stoudemire
Sacramento Kings
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Posts: 2,416
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Post by Amare Stoudemire on Feb 24, 2020 0:23:23 GMT
Not to mention Drummond has been putting these stats up for years! Last year with Blake, the years before that had no Blake
His numbers have been consistent for years!
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Post by Tom Izzo on Feb 24, 2020 0:37:01 GMT
I feel like you think that I think Drummond is a terrible player. I don't. And I'm not singling him out. I'm comparing Adams to other similar players, one of which is Drummond. My point is that Drummond and Adams go back and forth in multiple different categories and when it comes to advanced statistics, Adams edges Drummond out in most categories. I do not think Drummond is a whole tier above Adams.
Also, I just noticed you voted a *90* for Rudy Gobert and an 82 for Steven Adams. Come on man. They are not separated by 8 total points.
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Amare Stoudemire
Sacramento Kings
Starter
Posts: 2,416
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Post by Amare Stoudemire on Feb 24, 2020 0:46:36 GMT
I feel like you think that I think Drummond is a terrible player. I don't. And I'm not singling him out. I'm comparing Adams to other similar players, one of which is Drummond. My point is that Drummond and Adams go back and forth in multiple different categories and when it comes to advanced statistics, Adams edges Drummond out in most categories. I do not think Drummond is a whole tier above Adams. Also, I just noticed you voted a *90* for Rudy Gobert and an 82 for Steven Adams. Come on man. They are not separated by 8 total points. We're just going to have to agree to disagree broski And I hate this bringing up who voted certain things for certain players We all could do that all day long to each other but at the end of the day Brian Scalabrine is right! It makes it toxic and makes me and I'm sure others not want to participate in stock watches, which ultimately brings activity and fun down We all want to protect are players on are teams and I totally get that (I'm as guilty as anyone) Let's just let the stock watch vote handle this bc frankly I'm exhausted with this whole scenario! |
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Post by Tom Izzo on Feb 24, 2020 1:21:14 GMT
I feel like you think that I think Drummond is a terrible player. I don't. And I'm not singling him out. I'm comparing Adams to other similar players, one of which is Drummond. My point is that Drummond and Adams go back and forth in multiple different categories and when it comes to advanced statistics, Adams edges Drummond out in most categories. I do not think Drummond is a whole tier above Adams. Also, I just noticed you voted a *90* for Rudy Gobert and an 82 for Steven Adams. Come on man. They are not separated by 8 total points. We're just going to have to agree to disagree broski And I hate this bringing up who voted certain things for certain players We all could do that all day long to each other but at the end of the day Brian Scalabrine is right! It makes it toxic and makes me and I'm sure others not want to participate in stock watches, which ultimately brings activity and fun down We all want to protect are players on are teams and I totally get that (I'm as guilty as anyone) Let's just let the stock watch vote handle this bc frankly I'm exhausted with this whole scenario! It's annoying to be finally making positive strides toward improving a roster that was depleted, only to have those moves undercut by a conference competitor who privately messaged me wishing that my team sucked because I just traded him my 1st round pick, and to enjoy it "until Adams gets stock watched" to then have that same person post the stock watch, ignore the advanced statistics and player comparisons, and rate a similar player a 90 vs Adams an 82. If Adams is an 82, so are Drummond and Capela and Gobert is an 84-85. Maybe we just need to scrub all of our traditional centers and do rebuilds. My frustration stems from the fact that the advanced stats point to these players being pretty similar and it's hard not to be annoyed that the DAY I get Adams on my team you want to decrease him immediately. |
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Amare Stoudemire
Sacramento Kings
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Posts: 2,416
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Post by Amare Stoudemire on Feb 24, 2020 1:29:41 GMT
We're just going to have to agree to disagree broski And I hate this bringing up who voted certain things for certain players We all could do that all day long to each other but at the end of the day Brian Scalabrine is right! It makes it toxic and makes me and I'm sure others not want to participate in stock watches, which ultimately brings activity and fun down We all want to protect are players on are teams and I totally get that (I'm as guilty as anyone) Let's just let the stock watch vote handle this bc frankly I'm exhausted with this whole scenario! It's annoying to be finally making positive strides toward improving a roster that was depleted, only to have those moves undercut by a conference competitor who privately messaged me wishing that my team sucked because I just traded him my 1st round pick, and to enjoy it "until Adams gets stock watched" to then have that same person post the stock watch, ignore the advanced statistics and player comparisons, and rate a similar player a 90 vs Adams an 82. If Adams is an 82, so are Drummond and Capela and Gobert is an 84-85. Maybe we just need to scrub all of our traditional centers and do rebuilds. My frustration stems from the fact that the advanced stats point to these players being pretty similar and it's hard not to be annoyed that the DAY I get Adams on my team you want to decrease him immediately. I've said my peace on this topic Tom, you rate players on stock watch how you want and I'll rate players how I want! And it's awesome how some GM's bring up private message convos Yes we had a conversation the other nite discussing each other's team, and yes I did say till Adams got stock watched like drummond in the convo, but I'm not bringing up anything else that was said bc I don't bring up private conversations I have with GM's because their just that private I'm sorry your so frustrated and mad but all the big men have been stockwatched so why shouldn't Adams? You think Adams is better or as good as players like capela, drummond, gobert And I completely disagree with you That's why their opinions and every one has their own. |
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Post by Chauncey Billups on Feb 24, 2020 1:36:17 GMT
”...undercut by a conference competitor who privately messaged me wishing that my team sucked because I just traded him my 1st round pick, and to enjoy it "until Adams gets stock watched" to then have that same person post the stock watch...” If this is true, Amare is in the wrong. However, it is what it is, SW has been posted and GMs have voted. |
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Amare Stoudemire
Sacramento Kings
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Posts: 2,416
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Post by Amare Stoudemire on Feb 24, 2020 1:44:22 GMT
If this is true, Amare is in the wrong. However, it is what it is, SW has been posted and GMs have voted. Adams deserved to be stockwatched like the rest of the big men! This is not undercutting anyone, nor is it a spite to Tom Just like it's not a spite to AI that I stockwatched Aldridge They should be stockwatched like the rest of the big men! That's the reason! |
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Post by Jerry West on Feb 24, 2020 2:23:03 GMT
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Amare Stoudemire
Sacramento Kings
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Posts: 2,416
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Post by Amare Stoudemire on Feb 24, 2020 2:24:19 GMT
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Post by James Kay on Feb 24, 2020 2:24:44 GMT
If this is true, Amare is in the wrong. However, it is what it is, SW has been posted and GMs have voted. Adams deserved to be stockwatched like the rest of the big men! They should be stockwatched like the rest of the big men! That's the reason! lol what the hell does this mean? Who announced that all the big men needed to be stock watched? |
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Post by Tom Izzo on Feb 24, 2020 3:37:06 GMT
Andre Drummond/Steven Adams: Off Rating: Steven Adams: 111.2 Andre Drummond: 107.0 Defense rating: Steven Adams: 106.6 Andre Drummond: 111.8 Net rating for Andre Drummond: -4.8 Net rating for Steven Adams: +4.7 Assist ratio: Steven Adams: 19.5 Andre Drummond: 12.3 Rebound percentage: Steven Adams: 17.3 Andre Drummond: 23.4 eFG%: Steven Adams: 58.1 Andre Drummond: 53.3 TS%: Steven Adams: 59.6 Andre Drummond: 55.0 Andre Drummond: Going to be rated 85. My point here is that Adams is far better than Drummond in nearly every category, except rebounding. And yet people are voting for Drummond to be 3+ rating points higher?? This may not mean that Adams should not be decreased. I see it more that Drummond should be decreased. We just did a stock watch for Drummond a few weeks ago and collectively decided Drummond should be an 85. So this is my whole frustration about this post. We just said a player of Drummond's value is an 85, and if you look at the numbers, these are two similar players. If we need to look at our traditional centers as a whole and re-evaluate, then let's do it during the off-season. Because otherwise, if Adams lowers then Capela, Drummond, Gobert, and other non-shooting centers will need further adjusting. |
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