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Post by Ian Noble on Oct 7, 2019 8:49:08 GMT
Reddit LinkSince this will inevitably devolve into politics I'm posting here in Off Topic. I think the worst thing though is the NBA's cowardly stance towards China: So now we know. The NBA: where Profits > People.
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Post by Jerry West on Oct 7, 2019 9:39:43 GMT
How sure are we that China isn't checking on us right now? I don't wanna get in trouble.
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Post by George Gervin on Oct 7, 2019 13:41:12 GMT
I think the NBA is reacting no different than Starbucks, for example, to this crisis, where they wear two faces: one speaking about how progressive an organization we are, and attuned to the masses these days, the other recognizing China is a marketplace with nearly 1.4 Billion potential customers to sustain them through the turmoil that is a global marketplace. Think about a few numbers the NBA I’m sure had in their mind: - Roughly 300 MM people play basketball in China
- Nearly 500 MM used Tencent, the NBA’s streaming partner in China, last year to watch at least one game
- 21 MM from China alone streamed the Raptors clinching win over the Warriors in June
- The Rockets, after the Lakers, are the biggest money maker in China
- And to tweak a quote of one of Michael Jordan’s famous lines, “Chinese people buy sneakers too”
Is the NBA’s response a good one? No, particularly in light of Adam Silver’s previous actions with incidents that are contrary to the League’s mission, such as removing Donald Sterling and moving the All Star game from Charlotte after the passing of a discriminatory bathroom bill. It looks completely affront to the NBA’s posited position— which they try very hard to market and frame up— as the anti-NFL, the league in America that is not bone headed and stubborn. But like any other giant company looking to survive, they’ll make the deals necessary to grow and sustain— regardless of the consequences. P.S. Morey deserves some blame here, even when he’s 1000% right in his Tweet (and I agree with his stance), to have better self awareness. For such a smart guy, he should’ve known better with how the Chinese state controlled media has responded and messaged any pushback to the HK crisis that this would cause a shit show.
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Oct 12, 2019 3:13:29 GMT
I'd laugh if this caused a hard core revolution in mainland China because they can't watch NBA anymore lol.
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Oct 15, 2019 12:52:07 GMT
LeBron reveals himself as a Tankie
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Post by Jerry West on Oct 15, 2019 12:59:33 GMT
LeBron reveals himself as a Tankie LeBron always likes to act "woke" and say he is "more than athlete", so this is pretty bad for him, I think he was the worst player possible to come out with a statement like this, just gives me more respect for guys like Kanter.
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Post by Andrei Kirilenko on Oct 15, 2019 13:45:25 GMT
I'll probably take a lot of flack for this, but I legitimately do not believe most of us in the Western hemisphere are well-informed enough on the China / HK situation to be coming out in support of one side or another. I think Steph's response was perfect, and I think LeBron's was good as well. They are both saying we are not educated on the situation, which is true.
It's fine that Reddit and other sources are rallying around HK, but 99% of the userbase doesn't understand the underlying historic and socioeconomic context to be throwing their support blindly behind HK. They probably can't even tell you why HK is protesting except for "freedom" which is extremely vague. Yet, when LeBron says something that isn't necessarily even taking one side or another, everyone throws a fit like he is clearly on the wrong side of history.
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Post by George Gervin on Oct 15, 2019 13:53:27 GMT
LeBron reveals himself as a Tankie LeBron always likes to act "woke" and say he is "more than athlete", so this is pretty bad for him, I think he was the worst player possible to come out with a statement like this, just gives me more respect for guys like Kanter. I think this is a huge misstep by him; I find it hard to believe someone in his circle— Maverick Carter, Rich Paul, someone from Nike, Beats, etc.— didn’t speak up to say “this is a bad idea.” This also, to me, undercuts anything he says going forward on social issues in the US or otherwise, especially in the outrage culture environment.
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Oct 15, 2019 13:58:56 GMT
The fact that here and in Hong Kong (for now) we can freely discuss the protests without fear of being disappeared by the government in the middle of the night, unlike in mainland China, speaks volumes.
Seems pretty obvious to me why Hong Kongers oppose further encroachment on their freedoms by the Chinese Communist Party.
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Post by Jerry West on Oct 15, 2019 14:17:52 GMT
I'll probably take a lot of flack for this, but I legitimately do not believe most of us in the Western hemisphere are well-informed enough on the China / HK situation to be coming out in support of one side or another. I think Steph's response was perfect, and I think LeBron's was good as well. They are both saying we are not educated on the situation, which is true. It's fine that Reddit and other sources are rallying around HK, but 99% of the userbase doesn't understand the underlying historic and socioeconomic context to be throwing their support blindly behind HK. They probably can't even tell you why HK is protesting except for "freedom" which is extremely vague. Yet, when LeBron says something that isn't necessarily even taking one side or another, everyone throws a fit like he is clearly on the wrong side of history. It's true we can't 100% understand what's going on in Hong Kong. But this didn't start now, it started years ago and picking up steam outside of HK months ago. If I'm not mistaken HK was never even independent, it was "given" to China by the UK, probably in a deal sort of similiar to what happen with Portugal and China in relation to Macau. Problem was that despite HK being a part of China it still had a lot of autonomy, they were almost separate countrys, and people of HK even had more freedom than the people of China since those were under the Chinese regime (where everything is dictated by the government, while HK almost worked like and European country due to the influences they had from the UK), and there was a long term agreement for HK to only be fully included in China 50 years from the original agreement with the UK. Problem is people who were against that start disappearing in HK, which started the protests over 5 years ago. And that turned the let's say 10% againt the integration in China, into nearly the whole HK population. Anyway, all of this is happening because China doesn't want to wait another 30 years for HK to fully belong to them, and the majorty of the people of HK don't want to be part of China now or in 30 years. It's a really fucked up situation. This is going so fast that China built an over 50 kms bridge between Macau (former portuguese colony I talked about and HK), the biggest sea crossing bridge in the world to send a message that HK belongs to China. IMO HK doesn't have the write to request their freedom, same with Cataluyna in Spain, because that starts to happens even more regions will start to try to gain indepence. But can you imagine living your normal life and suddendly having to live under a regime like the Chinese? It's fucking awful, you either leave your home and almost everything and everyone you love, you have to live your whole life behind or start living under some horrible people. We take everything from granted but there is no actual freedom there, and the people in China accept it because that's how things have been taught since you were a baby, and you know the consequences of not accepting it. But going from living freely to that way, specially so quickly when you had an previous agreement that is being broken is really scary. Quick Edit: Despite me believing HK shouldn't be independent, that doesn't mean the Chinese government shouldn't go fuck off. They are the fucking problem, movement shouldn't be free HK, it should be to change the Chinese regime.
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Post by Alex English on Oct 15, 2019 22:25:40 GMT
I'll probably take a lot of flack for this, but I legitimately do not believe most of us in the Western hemisphere are well-informed enough on the China / HK situation to be coming out in support of one side or another. I think Steph's response was perfect, and I think LeBron's was good as well. They are both saying we are not educated on the situation, which is true. It's fine that Reddit and other sources are rallying around HK, but 99% of the userbase doesn't understand the underlying historic and socioeconomic context to be throwing their support blindly behind HK. They probably can't even tell you why HK is protesting except for "freedom" which is extremely vague. Yet, when LeBron says something that isn't necessarily even taking one side or another, everyone throws a fit like he is clearly on the wrong side of history. In some ways I agree with you, but at the same time, if you see a helicopter in a tree you don't need to be a pilot to know something went wrong. The Hong Kong protesters have 5 main demands, and as far as I know, only the first demand about the extradition bill has been met. That's about as informed as I am about the specifics of the protest. With that alone, and given that we already know the Chinese government is oppressive and autocratic, it seems hard not to side with the protesters. Just for reasons of pure self-determination, it seems hard to imagine that the million or whatever protesters are wrong while those who rule over them are right. Human society, power and corruption doesn't really work that way. I think if so many people are willing to rise up and risk everything, they probably have a point.
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Nov 6, 2019 22:55:00 GMT
I'll probably take a lot of flack for this, but I legitimately do not believe most of us in the Western hemisphere are well-informed enough on the China / HK situation to be coming out in support of one side or another. I think Steph's response was perfect, and I think LeBron's was good as well. They are both saying we are not educated on the situation, which is true. It's fine that Reddit and other sources are rallying around HK, but 99% of the userbase doesn't understand the underlying historic and socioeconomic context to be throwing their support blindly behind HK. They probably can't even tell you why HK is protesting except for "freedom" which is extremely vague. Yet, when LeBron says something that isn't necessarily even taking one side or another, everyone throws a fit like he is clearly on the wrong side of history. The overall historic and socioeconomic context is "CHINA WILL FUCKING KILL YOU IF YOU WANT TO VOTE FOR STUFF" They also have "FUCKING GOD DAMNED ORGAN FARMS WHERE THEY HARVEST MINORITIES ORGANS FOR TRANSPLANTS" The end. I would believe the historical context and video evidence I see with my own eyes over what LeBron says. He's a fucking pussy who put money (while already being rich) over the lives and freedom of literally millions of people. Fuck him, fuck Steph and fuck the NBA.
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Post by George Gervin on Nov 13, 2019 1:19:44 GMT
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Post by Ian Noble on Nov 13, 2019 9:27:26 GMT
Situation made me think of this quote
Morey did the right tihng
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Post by James Kay on Nov 13, 2019 15:35:13 GMT
Situation made me think of this quote Morey did the right tihng Deleting his tweet?
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Post by Ian Noble on Nov 13, 2019 15:57:17 GMT
Situation made me think of this quote Morey did the right tihng Deleting his tweet? Calling out human rights abuses
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Post by George Gervin on Feb 16, 2020 15:48:39 GMT
Well the Commish has now put a rough estimate on the losses from the Morey tweet: “hundreds of millions, likely under $400 MM” www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/02/15/sports/nba-adam-silver-china-kobe.amp.htmlCap wise, not sure with how they do the formulas what that’d actually translate to, but coupled with the NBA’s decline this year in TV ratings domestically (reported by the Athletic and other outlets), that $116 MM estimate for 2020-21 will probably come in lower. Will be interesting as well if the Rockets ax Morey at seasons end once the financial hit is all on paper.
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Post by Ian Noble on Feb 16, 2020 16:10:13 GMT
profits > people
not the wisest social system I've ever heard of
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Post by George Gervin on Jul 29, 2020 20:22:37 GMT
On the heels of the Sen. Josh Hawley/Marsha Blackburn Letters about the NBA’s China relationship, ESPN drops 9 months of investigation on the eve of the season restart. To say what was going at these academies is pretty fucked up is an understatement— especially the one in Xianjiang where it seems the academy was more an internment/concentration camp than basketball academy. What I find most interesting from this piece, though, is the lengths the NBA went to deny access to key staff for the story WHILE telling said staff not to divulge they were told not to respond. Any goodwill or standing the League thinks it has on social issues or stances goes out the window with the conduct described. I do wonder if any reporter or analyst discusses this on air. For anyone wanting to read it: www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29553829/espn-investigation-finds-coaches-nba-china-academies-complained-player-abuse-lack-schoolingI’ll also add none of this is surprising from China— especially if you read stories about how Yao was developed and raised, and the Soviet-esqe lengths the Chinese went to essentially “breed” basketball players using eugenics
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Post by George Gervin on Aug 13, 2020 16:31:54 GMT
A dithering and weak interview from SI with Silver— never even brought up China, just kept it to the social justice “what do you think of Republicans attacking you for BLMs”. I mean after the Mark Tatum timeline screw up on the NBA China academies, and the NBA’s hypocrisy on this front, for a leading sports publication to not even ask a question on it is a joke. www.si.com/nba/2020/08/13/adam-silver-nba-bubble-coronavirus-social-justice-future
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Post by Ian Noble on Aug 13, 2020 18:00:07 GMT
A dithering and weak interview from SI with Silver— never even brought up China, just kept it to the social justice “what do you think of Republicans attacking you for BLMs”. I mean after the Mark Tatum timeline screw up on the NBA China academies, and the NBA’s hypocrisy on this front, for a leading sports publication to not even ask a question on it is a joke. www.si.com/nba/2020/08/13/adam-silver-nba-bubble-coronavirus-social-justice-futureFor-profit mass media undermines civil rights by design. Both the NBA and ESPN rely on Chinese consumers for a significant chunk of their profits, if they anger the CCP and get locked out of the Chinese market they become less profitable than their competitors and will eventually be taken over by an institution who is willing to comply with the CCP. The only reason they're reporting on BLM is because good people have kicked up enough of a stink that you can't ignore it. Anyway Noam Chomsky etc.etc.
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Post by George Gervin on Aug 13, 2020 18:11:43 GMT
A dithering and weak interview from SI with Silver— never even brought up China, just kept it to the social justice “what do you think of Republicans attacking you for BLMs”. I mean after the Mark Tatum timeline screw up on the NBA China academies, and the NBA’s hypocrisy on this front, for a leading sports publication to not even ask a question on it is a joke. www.si.com/nba/2020/08/13/adam-silver-nba-bubble-coronavirus-social-justice-futureFor-profit mass media undermines civil rights by design. Both the NBA and ESPN rely on Chinese consumers for a significant chunk of their profits, if they anger the CCP and get locked out of the Chinese market they become less profitable than their competitors and will eventually be taken over by an institution who is willing to comply with the CCP. The only reason they're reporting on BLM is because good people have kicked up enough of a stink that you can't ignore it. Anyway Noam Chomsky etc.etc. Very familiar with the manufacturing consent argument vis a vis Chomsky— it’s particularly acute in the group think/conformity on any dissenting opinions from main line thought. This is also something that has come up where news organizations have privately said they will be screwed if Biden wins as, say what you will about him, Trump was a ratings machine for a slowly dying field that is day time news.
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