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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Jun 12, 2018 18:17:25 GMT
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Post by Ian Noble on Jun 12, 2018 18:29:24 GMT
Eisenhower's final speech warned us.
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Jun 12, 2018 18:51:54 GMT
Sorry world.
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Post by Tom Izzo on Jun 12, 2018 18:57:33 GMT
Details?
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Post by Ian Noble on Jun 20, 2018 10:22:47 GMT
Every Republican senator deserves a fair trial before being sent to prison for the rest of their lives.
That's honestly the most tame response I can give to these children's internment camps.
At what point does use of force become justified if not yet?
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Jun 20, 2018 12:45:04 GMT
Every Republican senator deserves a fair trial before being sent to prison for the rest of their lives. That's honestly the most tame response I can give to these children's internment camps. At what point does use of force become justified if not yet? Don't kill me for this, purely innocent question: what is the federal government supposed to do about illegal immigrant families who get caught crossing the border? It's against federal law to keep children in custody more than 20 days so they can't keep them in detention with their parents. Bush and Obama administration's policies were to give them a court date and release them. The problem is that these people have no documentation so it's highly unlikely they ever show up. So essentially you're allowing people to cross the border with the assistance of the federal government if they have children. This current policy is obviously not a good solution but I haven't heard one that makes sense from the democrats either.
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Post by Ian Noble on Jun 20, 2018 13:02:46 GMT
Every Republican senator deserves a fair trial before being sent to prison for the rest of their lives. That's honestly the most tame response I can give to these children's internment camps. At what point does use of force become justified if not yet? Don't kill me for this, purely innocent question: what is the federal government supposed to do about illegal immigrant families who get caught crossing the border? It's against federal law to keep children in custody more than 20 days so they can't keep them in detention with their parents. Bush and Obama administration's policies were to give them a court date and release them. The problem is that these people have no documentation so it's highly unlikely they ever show up. So essentially you're allowing people to cross the border with the assistance of the federal government if they have children. This current policy is obviously not a good solution but I haven't heard one that makes sense from the democrats either. The best approach is to take a step back, look at how NAFTA has caused mass migration and poverty, and undo some of the damage done to peoples lives. That, however, infringes on the ability of billionaires to make more profits, so alas it's politically unfeasible under both Republicans and Democrats it would seem. Immigrants should be treated like people, not criminals. In America immigrants lose their 'human' legal status when they're processed by ICE. Looking into the crimes against humanity undertaken by ICE is an unconscionable rabbit hole of depravity in general, but this recent occurrence is a much more public story.
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Jun 20, 2018 16:20:30 GMT
It's a civil offense to be in our country illegally. You can't even go to jail for it. The fact that they are putting people into concentration camps should be very alarming to everyone.
So basically we are ripping nursing babies from their mothers over a misdemeanor offense that's equivalent to a pretty bad speeding ticket.
Solve the root cause, decriminalization of drugs would destroy the cartels that are the main cause of migrants coming here. They are running from a situation that our war on drugs caused. That and destabilizing every other South American government over the years.
America's problems are self caused it's kind of sad really.
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Post by Ian Noble on Jun 20, 2018 16:47:23 GMT
I think a major problem is that we can all express our outrage, and you Americans can even organise and campaign, but it doesn't make a difference because you don't live in a democracy.
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Jun 20, 2018 17:19:34 GMT
You guys still haven't proposed a solution. The way I see it there's 3 options
Release families who are caught crossing the border. They'll likely never show up to their court date, meaning the US is pretty much helping undocumented immigrants enter the country. This seems dangerous to me since we have no clue who these people are. Not to mention child trafficking risks.
You separate the kids from the parents while the parents are in custody awaiting deportation, aka current policy. This is a humanitarian disaster and very unpopular with the public.
You keep the families together in detention and quickly deport them before the deadline of 20 days is up and the children must be released by law. This could lead to asylum seekers being deported back to dangerous situations and may not even be feasible given the already strained resources of the immigration system.
None of these options seems good.
In regards to Jeremiah, it's a criminal misdemeanor to enter the country illegally. Being in the country illegally is a civil offense, like if you overstay your visa, but if you cross the border without authorization that's a crime. The Obama and Bush administrations just chose to only charge those caught crossing the border multiple times. Trump has started to charge first time offenders.
There's a lot of emotional rhetoric out there but very little in the way of practical solutions. I'd be very interested to hear one.
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Jun 20, 2018 17:20:19 GMT
I think a major problem is that we can all express our outrage, and you Americans can even organise and campaign, but it doesn't make a difference because you don't live in a democracy. Lots of outrage but not many solutions being proposed
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Post by Ian Noble on Jun 20, 2018 18:54:08 GMT
I think a major problem is that we can all express our outrage, and you Americans can even organise and campaign, but it doesn't make a difference because you don't live in a democracy. Lots of outrage but not many solutions being proposed Here in England I make it my duty to attend several protests each year, I write to my Member of Parliament (Senator) on issues that I'm passionate about, I'm a paid member of the Green Party and Labour Party (left wing parties) as well as the Left-Wing people's movement Momentum. I do more than 99% of the population.
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Post by Ian Noble on Jun 20, 2018 18:54:54 GMT
Also, you cannot always let 'The Law' be a guide to your actions. It's called Civil Disobedience for a reason.
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Kevin Hollis
Former Thunder GM for 7 years
All Star
Posts: 2,838
Dec 16, 2022 11:27:40 GMT
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Post by Kevin Hollis on Jun 20, 2018 19:20:14 GMT
Did you just take that from reddit? It is on the front page.
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Post by Ian Noble on Jun 20, 2018 19:21:29 GMT
Did you just take that from reddit? It is on the front page. Yeah
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Jun 20, 2018 19:44:17 GMT
You guys still haven't proposed a solution. The way I see it there's 3 options Release families who are caught crossing the border. They'll likely never show up to their court date, meaning the US is pretty much helping undocumented immigrants enter the country. This seems dangerous to me since we have no clue who these people are. Not to mention child trafficking risks. You separate the kids from the parents while the parents are in custody awaiting deportation, aka current policy. This is a humanitarian disaster and very unpopular with the public. You keep the families together in detention and quickly deport them before the deadline of 20 days is up and the children must be released by law. This could lead to asylum seekers being deported back to dangerous situations and may not even be feasible given the already strained resources of the immigration system. None of these options seems good. In regards to Jeremiah, it's a criminal misdemeanor to enter the country illegally. Being in the country illegally is a civil offense, like if you overstay your visa, but if you cross the border without authorization that's a crime. The Obama and Bush administrations just chose to only charge those caught crossing the border multiple times. Trump has started to charge first time offenders. There's a lot of emotional rhetoric out there but very little in the way of practical solutions. I'd be very interested to hear one. Stop what's causing them to leave their homes and the problem is solved. I gave the solution. Abandon the war on drugs and stop trying to overthrow governments.
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Jun 20, 2018 19:45:51 GMT
Here is a decent documentary about the issue. No left or right bias. Really interesting view on how Americans find it impossible to learn from history.
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Post by Ian Noble on Jun 20, 2018 19:57:09 GMT
There's so much injustice and suffering caused by my UK taxes every year. Tonight me and Mrs Ian were supposed to go to a Syrian refugee conference but she's gone alone because I feel like "my heart is full up like a landfill" (Radiohead). All the wrong people are in power in the world.
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Jun 20, 2018 21:06:33 GMT
Jeremiah you're proposing a long term solution. There is a crisis happening now. The question is what would you do today?
To Ian, you think border laws are unjust? I'm not anti-immigration or anything, far from it, but we can't just have open borders, that chaos. Then ISIS, or other terrorist groups could easily infiltrate the US. It would also open the flood gates on human trafficking. We have to know who's coming into the country.
Immigration is one of the few issues where I think the left has no real policy. I don't agree with the right's racially driven immigration vision but progressives have nothing to propose. They just use emotion to win political points. Nothing is fixed
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Post by Ian Noble on Jun 20, 2018 22:28:55 GMT
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Jun 25, 2018 19:52:05 GMT
Yeah, supposedly the children are being forced to say the pledge of allegiance every morning. This shit is so batshit fucked it's not even fair.
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