Elton Brand
Former Jazz GM
Sophomore
Posts: 258
Feb 4, 2021 0:33:37 GMT
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Post by Elton Brand on Jun 4, 2018 13:57:09 GMT
Utah trades: Markelle Fultz $5,855,200 $6,949,900 $8,121,000 $10,240,581 $13,312,755 8th Overall 2018 Draft Pick 53rd Overall 2018 Draft Pick
Phoenix trades: 4th Overall 2018 Draft Pick 29th Overall 2018 Draft Pick Milos Teodosic $3,000,000 $3,000,000 $3,000,000 Jameer Nelson’s Contract $5,785,000 $5,148,650
I accept. Markelle Fultz is too much of a wildcard for me at this point and I believe that he will never be the same player he once was at Washington. However, I get to trade him for a top 5 2018 draft pick, and in my opinion this year’s draft class has potential to become the next 2003 draft class. I also receive the 29th overall pick, which could be a gem in such a deep draft class. Milos Teodosic is also a great point guard with elite passing. I believe he’ll be a contestant for most improved player thison the Clippers this coming season.
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Post by Jared Montini on Jun 4, 2018 14:24:43 GMT
I accept, it was rather unfortunate that I dropped from 2 all the way to 4. I missed out on Luka and that set the Suns back a little. I think this is a risk on my end but could pay off immensely. I drop to pick 8 which I can then either trade farther down or draft a solid prospect like carter or Porter. Fultz has tremendous upside. One year removed from being picked number 1, he still has a chance to be a mid 80,s player.
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Post by Andrei Kirilenko on Jun 4, 2018 14:32:05 GMT
This is obviously an incredible trade for Phoenix and the franchise could really use a fleecing like this to kickstart it... but come on Elton. This has to be potentially the most short-sighted trade I’ve ever seen in D5. You’re trading a #1 pick who was injured all his rookie season just to move up 4 spots in a draft in which there isn’t much difference between #4 and #8. You’re trading Fultz at his absolute lowest value, and buying on the pick at its absolute highest value. How is this in any world a good idea?
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Post by Ian Noble on Jun 4, 2018 14:59:14 GMT
It's hard not to agree with what Josh said - Elton's giving up on Fultz to move up 4 spots, which doesn't really compute. I know Fultz's future is an unknown and he underperformed all year, but that's another reason why it's bad to trade him, his stock can only go up, same reason it would be stupid of me to trade Jabari Parker right now.
That being said I have a strong opinion that there's a Top 6 in this Draft, and at 8 there's a tier-level drop off in talent.
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Jun 4, 2018 15:09:57 GMT
I don't think this is so bad for Utah. 4 is way better than 8 in this draft imo. If he makes the right pick to pair with Tatum this could be game changing. But I also don't believe in fultz
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Elton Brand
Former Jazz GM
Sophomore
Posts: 258
Feb 4, 2021 0:33:37 GMT
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Post by Elton Brand on Jun 4, 2018 15:24:57 GMT
All players in the top 5 would be contestants for the number 1 pick in the 2017 NBA draft.
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Post by Andrei Kirilenko on Jun 4, 2018 15:29:53 GMT
All players in the top 5 would be contestants for the number 1 pick in the 2017 NBA draft. Everyone always says this every year lol. The worst time to trade for a pick is right around the draft
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Elton Brand
Former Jazz GM
Sophomore
Posts: 258
Feb 4, 2021 0:33:37 GMT
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Post by Elton Brand on Jun 4, 2018 15:32:38 GMT
No offense, but care to explain why? I’m actually interested in why you think this.
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Post by Ian Noble on Jun 4, 2018 15:43:20 GMT
No offense, but care to explain why? I’m actually interested in why you think this. Picks are always hugely overrated during Draft time. It's kinda hard to explain why. I think it's mostly because the value of each draft pick is equal to the 'ceiling' of each player that could be drafted with the pick, but obviously that ceiling is rarely reached. I've used it twice make trades for players from the preceeding draft (in 2015 for Jabari, last year for Ingram) because, after a year of NBA experience, it's usually easier to judge a player's potential, and if they're younger than most of the current year's crop (e.g. Ingram) then it's an extra cushion against a trade coming back to bite you in the ass. That being said Jabari's been a walking injury (although I got him for Mudiay and Kaminsky) and Ingram's value is roughly equal to that of Josh Jackson who I traded away.
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Elton Brand
Former Jazz GM
Sophomore
Posts: 258
Feb 4, 2021 0:33:37 GMT
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Post by Elton Brand on Jun 4, 2018 16:13:46 GMT
@trade Committee
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Post by Tom Izzo on Jun 4, 2018 19:08:59 GMT
Ah someone already did jump on that offer. Hard to believe people are giving up on Fultz after one year where he barely played. The kid showed flashes of talent at the end of the year and he undoubtedly has potential. To trade Fultz alone should net a top 5 pick (if you're that hellbent on giving up on the 19 year old kid who was last year's consensus number 1 overall pick) but to pair it with the 8th overall pick just to move up to 4th overall is a huge...steal for Phoenix, to put it lightly.
There may be a huge talent drop off after a certain draft pick, but at the end of the day it can be hard to determine young talent before they take the court. Since 2013, these players have been drafted in the 8th position or later:
CJ McCollum (10) Devin Booker (13) Zach LeVine (13) Donovan Mitchell (13) Giannis Antetokounmpo (15) Gary Harris (19) Clint Capela (25) Rudy Gobert (27)
Essentially, you're trading last year's number 1 pick (who was injured for a large majority of the year and trying to get his shooting form back) and this year's number 8 pick for this year's number 4 pick...
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Post by Alex English on Jun 4, 2018 22:36:15 GMT
Easy reject for me.
I agree with Josh, this is a short sighted 'buy high sell low' kind of trade. I don't believe the difference between the 4th and 8th picks comes anywhere close to justify dumping Fultz so soon and at such low value.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Jun 4, 2018 23:57:39 GMT
Agreed with the majority here, Fultz should get you pick 4, maaaaybe adding a little more but not pick 8.
Reject
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Jun 5, 2018 0:48:36 GMT
Eh, I kinda liked the deal.
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Post by Jared Montini on Jun 5, 2018 1:05:09 GMT
Lol
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Elton Brand
Former Jazz GM
Sophomore
Posts: 258
Feb 4, 2021 0:33:37 GMT
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Post by Elton Brand on Jun 5, 2018 1:52:21 GMT
At least I got a seal of approval from the great Jeremiah Hill
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Billy King
Former Jazz and Knicks GM
Rookie
Posts: 247
Oct 30, 2023 14:13:22 GMT
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Post by Billy King on Jun 5, 2018 3:06:53 GMT
lmao
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Post by Ian Noble on Jun 5, 2018 7:33:06 GMT
Reject from me also, so that's a reject on the trade as a whole.
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Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on Jun 5, 2018 13:47:01 GMT
TCs are so short-sighted to think that this trade is so much of a win for PHX.
This is an equal deal. 2018 draft is basically turning into a top 8 draft and getting that #8 and just taking the last one remaining of the 8 and adding the recent #1 pick looks like a sure win, right away. Right?
Not really.. By paying the Fultz price, Elton could have taken the wheel to his future.. Getting the #4 pick could have to mean picking someone not named Ayton, Donkic and Bagley (maybe Jackson/Bamba). Saying that there is no big difference between #8 and #4 just because after the first three picks the remaining guys are perceived to be on equal footing is very wrong..
Control is important in the draft, especially in a sim league. Of course, control is anchored to the effort and wisdom of the GM. You need to realize that we will be having the information of who went where in the draft and that is game-changing here.
Don't look at numbers to say that you made a good draft pick. Fultz? So what if he was the #1 pick last year? Kindly remind me of his perceived ceiling during the heights of the 2017 draft? It was only in the level of the John Walls..
And in this year's draft? I already heard good analysis critic five of those 8, saying that they have at least a KAT-level type of ceiling.
"giving up on Fultz" is the biggest irony... Basically, ALL OF US ALREADY GAVE UP ON HIM. HE WAS ON THE TB FOR A WHILE NOW AND NO ONE HAS COME UP WITH THE PERCEIVED ACCEPTABLE OFFER!
And how on earth are you not putting value on that 29th pick? Ohh.. because you heard that the 29th pick is basically a 2nd round pick?
Let me give you a simple math. If you were given the choice where to draft Draymond between the 29th and 2nd round, what will be your answer?
Of course the 29th! Why? BECAUSE OF THE TWO YEARS ADDITIONAL CONTROL.
This 2018 draft is not only deep at the top.. It is a very deep draft! And mind you, top-caliber players can be drafted at #29..
Last year's draft is a great example of the power of control.. Checked who Alex (#14), Jeremiah (#10) and I (#24) drafted in the 1st round.
Letting the draft, draft for you doesn't mean that you will not make a wrong decision..
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Post by Jared Montini on Jun 5, 2018 14:10:45 GMT
Yeah, what Hana said. It's kinda crazy how you guys are saying Fultz has value but everybody said he was ass in the big down your guys thread. I'm not mad or anything because me and Elton will renegotiate but it's just crazy how you guys ignore teodosic and pick 29 like it's not even in this trade
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Post by Jared Montini on Jun 5, 2018 14:12:35 GMT
Also everyone's been saying that Bagley doncic Jackson Ayton are the big 4 who can change your franchise. So there is a big difference between the top 4 and Wendell carter
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Amare Stoudemire
Sacramento Kings
Starter
Posts: 2,416
Apr 14, 2024 11:04:23 GMT
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Post by Amare Stoudemire on Jun 5, 2018 14:36:21 GMT
Theres always a big 4 or 5 than a donovan mitchel, kyle kuzma etc happen! This is a bad trade imo you keep fultz and keep building he looked good the last part of the year.
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Post by Tom Izzo on Jun 5, 2018 15:58:37 GMT
This is a fleecing based on the fact that Fultz is still a relatively unknown prospect. This isn't Anthony Bennett or Kwame Brown. He could be.... But he could also be Russell Westbrook. We don't know. Nobody does. But the potential difference here is immense.
If Philadelphia tried this in real life the city would burn.
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Post by Mark Price on Jun 5, 2018 16:52:52 GMT
I don't like this trade and I believe it's one sided, but that's because I believe Fultz still has value. While Fultz's value is low, if he doesn't have a good year next year his stock is going to completely fall off the map. Trading him now could be the Jazz's best option if he believes that Fultz's stock is going down.
I think this is a bad trade, but I don't think it's as insane as everyone else thinks it is. Fultz hasn't shown us any reason why we should believe he's going to be better next season meaning his value could plummet even lower. Moving up in the draft while getting a late first isn't bad if you're on the Fultz is a complete bust train.
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Post by Tom Izzo on Jun 5, 2018 20:22:48 GMT
I don't like this trade and I believe it's one sided, but that's because I believe Fultz still has value. While Fultz's value is low, if he doesn't have a good year next year his stock is going to completely fall off the map. Trading him now could be the Jazz's best option if he believes that Fultz's stock is going down. I think this is a bad trade, but I don't think it's as insane as everyone else thinks it is. Fultz hasn't shown us any reason why we should believe he's going to be better next season meaning his value could plummet even lower. Moving up in the draft while getting a late first isn't bad if you're on the Fultz is a complete bust train. He played 14 games in an injury prone season. People are acting like he had a full healthy season and was bad. 14 games as an injured, 19 year old.
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Post by Mark Price on Jun 5, 2018 21:05:02 GMT
I don't like this trade and I believe it's one sided, but that's because I believe Fultz still has value. While Fultz's value is low, if he doesn't have a good year next year his stock is going to completely fall off the map. Trading him now could be the Jazz's best option if he believes that Fultz's stock is going down. I think this is a bad trade, but I don't think it's as insane as everyone else thinks it is. Fultz hasn't shown us any reason why we should believe he's going to be better next season meaning his value could plummet even lower. Moving up in the draft while getting a late first isn't bad if you're on the Fultz is a complete bust train. He played 14 games in an injury prone season. People are acting like he had a full healthy season and was bad. 14 games as an injured, 19 year old. I agree that it's too early to give up on him. But it's not irrational to lose hope in him because of the injury controversy and the whole needing to remake his own shot thing. This isn't as simple as him just being injured.
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Post by Tom Izzo on Jun 5, 2018 22:33:47 GMT
He played 14 games in an injury prone season. People are acting like he had a full healthy season and was bad. 14 games as an injured, 19 year old. I agree that it's too early to give up on him. But it's not irrational to lose hope in him because of the injury controversy and the whole needing to remake his own shot thing. This isn't as simple as him just being injured. I suppose I feel it is irrational to give up on a 19 year old consensus number one overall pick after only 14 games
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Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on Jun 6, 2018 0:48:51 GMT
It feels irrational because he is 19 years old and a #1 pick. Period? Very short-sighted.
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Post by Tom Izzo on Jun 6, 2018 2:58:35 GMT
It feels irrational because he is 19 years old and a #1 pick. Period? Very short-sighted. You left off the part where he only played 14 games. And regardless, yeah, it does feel irrational, and that position couldn't be further from being short-sighted. To put it in perspective, he's only 2 months older than Ayton (he actually just turned 20, my bad. Ayton will be 20 next month).
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Jun 6, 2018 16:11:27 GMT
I was low on Fultz during the draft last year so him sucking this year really kinda put him at negative value for me. Idk if I'd trade my 20 something pick for him straight up.
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