Marco Belinelli - BOS

[Andrei Kirilenko]

Year 1 - $950,000
Year 2 - $1,050,000
Year 3 - $1,150,000
Year 4 - $1,250,000

[Brian Scalabrine]

Wow great bargain Ian

[Ian Noble]

Apr 23, 2018 6:17:34 GMT Brian Scalabrine said:

Wow great bargain Ian

Dude's playing out of his mind for Philly right now.

[James Kay]

This is an outrageous signing that I strongly feel should be rescinded and restructured.

I'm surprised I'm the first to come out in opposition to this. Belinelli just signed a 1 year vet min to compete with the Sixers. Consider the following: Belinelli played 28 games for the 76ers this year, averaging 14 points on .495/.385/.870 in only 26 minutes. In the playoffs, he's averaging 18 points on .480/.407/.813. These are fantastic percentages. This is so far removed from the contract he should have signed here, in both initial amount and length of the contract.


1. Amount of contract. Laughable. 4.2 million over 4 years? Is that a joke? Boston isn't even over the cap!! He could've offered a real contract - it's not even like he's handicapped by the cap and could only offer this. Belinelli's value is way more than this. An 18ppg scorer on 48 FG%? Are you kidding me?

2. Length of contract. W.H.A.T. Why is Belinelli locking himself in for FOUR YEARS? At essentially the minimum.


I tried to sign Thabo Sefalosha for the vet min to a one or two year deal this off-season from Josh and was told that it was not gonna happen (I was also told that I was being ridiculous and that I had a god-complex for thinking he would sign with the Hornets). Belinelli is playing better than Thabo was, signing a worse deal, to a worse team. What the hell is this.

[James Kay]

Every single PA I talk to about FAs stresses that they don't want their players locked into long-term deals. This goes against every thing I've been told from PAs.

[Kevin Hollis]

James kind of has a point. This deal is pretty dumb based on length and money involved. I would think it would have to be low money and short length or normal value over four years. If this was off-season free agency this deal would never get accepted.

[Ian Noble]

1. I agree the contract is a steal. I think one thing our Agents need to focus on is demanding more for free agents and genuinely acting like they're trying to get the best deal for their clients.

2. I think if 70+ Free Agents receive offers then the PA should post an alert in the Shoutbox, or post a new thread in this section, so that GMs can compete with one another via Personal Messages.

3. Belinelli's been on the free agent list since last August and never had any offers though so it's not like I'm shafting you guys or something.

[Kevin Hollis]

Apr 23, 2018 15:14:10 GMT Ian Noble said:

1. I agree the contract is a steal. I think one thing our Agents need to focus on is demanding more for free agents and genuinely acting like they're trying to get the best deal for their clients.

2. I think if 70+ Free Agents receive offers then the PA should post an alert in the Shoutbox, or post a new thread in this section, so that GMs can compete with one another via Personal Messages.

3. Belinelli's been on the free agent list since last August and never had any offers though so it's not like I'm shafting you guys or something.

I agree. It's a hard situation because the lower teams do not want to pick up any usable player's which leads to the better teams hoarding all of the talent. Unlike the real NBA, there isn't an incentive to try and win games in the sim.

[Andrei Kirilenko]

Belinelli is a 32 year old journeyman who is already getting paid $15m in D5 this season and is pretty much maxed-out ratings wise at 75. Maybe he shouldn’t sign a long-term deal but the Celtics are the only team to have offered and he’s already 32. If you think it’s below market then you need to send more offers to actually make a market. You can’t claim he should get more money when you aren’t willing or unable to pay it yourself.

[Kevin Hollis]

Exactly my point. Teams are unable to, which is fine, but the lower teams refuse to sign anyone that might increase their chances of winning a game. Though, those teams should realize they could trade the player to one of the better teams to accumulate more assets.

[James Kay]

Ian Noble Andrei Kirilenko

Belinelli was NOT on the FA list since August, as he was just released March 22 by the Lakers. I have no way of verifying whether he was put on the list or not subsequent to his release, but he is not currently on the list. In any case, a FA who can reasonably be predicted to have competition, such as Belinelli, should be announced to be signing or something so other people can be aware and place bids.


We need to address whether players at and over 70 can be bid on by teams over the cap. If not, that’s incredibly stupid, and has dissuaded/prevented me from bidding on a number of 70+ players. Barring over the cap teams from offering the minimum to 70+ rated players does not make sense.

The three dominating factors in mid-season FA are Contract Amount, Contract Length, and Team Role/Success.

These three factors should be balanced. Here, there is no balance at all. A 4 year deal with such little money is inappropriate on its face.

If a player is rated 70+, then they should be able to sign with an over the cap team for the minimum if that contract is short and the team success or role is high. Teams with lower success can outbid the offers financially because they are under the cap. The FA system should organically govern the distribution of FAs in a fair manner.

Back to this specific signing, it makes no sense that Belinelli would take such a paltry long term offer from a team that is barely in the playoffs and has $20 million plus in cap space. The length of the contract here is what makes this inappropriate, A one year deal would be fine. two might be stretching it but more than that needs to be corrected

[Ian Noble]

James Kay

I've just sent the following message to the three player agents:

Apr 23, 2018 17:09:37 GMT Ian Noble said:

Hey guys,

Not sure if you've read the cerfuffle about Marco Belinelli in the Free Agent section yet, but basically for future 70+ FAs can you guys:

1. Post a new thread in the Free Agency section whenever you get an offer for a player, so that other GMs know there's an offer made. Perhaps reply to that thread if a new GM enters the race. Post only that an offer has been made, not the GM's name.

2. Only sign a player to a team if the contract looks like the contract that player would take in real life.

Thanks,

Ian

[Chauncey Billups]

Apr 23, 2018 16:35:04 GMT Andrei Kirilenko said:

You can’t claim he should get more money when you aren’t willing or unable to pay it yourself.

^^

[Walt Frazier]

I agree if the market isn't there, then the market isn't there. So, that's a point to Barber's side.

However! It's been awhile since I did in-season FA (though I'd be open to it again...) but in similar situations in the past, or towards the end of off-season FA, I've definitely told teams that offer something like this for a player like Belinelli that a 1 year deal is all that would make sense, so that perhaps a better market will exist the following year.

On a related note, I've long thought that perhaps in-season FA (which seems so damn limited in here, the market I mean) should be capped at 1 or 2 year deals. Maybe a 2nd year needs to be a mutual option or something. I just think people are so much less active, it's not realistic the minimal market for players during this time.

I guess you could give props to anyone that saves cap space for in-season FA, but that's not the way this league has been set up to this point. All PA's pretty much push you to blow all of your cap space in the offseason, so that especially by the time in-season FA rolls around, players like Belinelli have nearly zero market to make any real money.

It is frustrating. Long-term, I don't think this burns the league down but it IS a very, very, very unrealistic signing that should probably be looked at closely. I'd vote in favor of shortening it to 2 years or something.

[Hanamichi Sakuragi]

Apr 23, 2018 23:35:45 GMT Walt Frazier said:

I agree if the market isn't there, then the market isn't there. So, that's a point to Barber's side.

However! It's been awhile since I did in-season FA (though I'd be open to it again...) but in similar situations in the past, or towards the end of off-season FA, I've definitely told teams that offer something like this for a player like Belinelli that a 1 year deal is all that would make sense, so that perhaps a better market will exist the following year.

On a related note, I've long thought that perhaps in-season FA (which seems so damn limited in here, the market I mean) should be capped at 1 or 2 year deals. Maybe a 2nd year needs to be a mutual option or something. I just think people are so much less active, it's not realistic the minimal market for players during this time.

I guess you could give props to anyone that saves cap space for in-season FA, but that's not the way this league has been set up to this point. All PA's pretty much push you to blow all of your cap space in the offseason, so that especially by the time in-season FA rolls around, players like Belinelli have nearly zero market to make any real money.

It is frustrating. Long-term, I don't think this burns the league down but it IS a very, very, very unrealistic signing that should probably be looked at closely. I'd vote in favor of shortening it to 2 years or something.

I disagree about limiting the contract-length of in-season free-agency. Last time I check we have equal opportunity to offer and we actually see all the available free-agents. If a player is release, he is an FA. As simple as that. IT IS NOT A PROBLEM, so we should not change anything.

We are all grown-ups here. We should stop treating the others, boys. 

[Jeremiah Hill]

How about no in season player agents?

Wouldn't it make more sense that someone gets a player mid-season purely based on money given that's what happens in real life?

[Ian Noble]

Apr 24, 2018 20:06:01 GMT Jeremiah Hill said:

How about no in season player agents?

Wouldn't it make more sense that someone gets a player mid-season purely based on money given that's what happens in real life?

I dunno about this, regular season PAs were introduced for a reason.

[Jeremiah Hill]

Apr 25, 2018 10:13:27 GMT Ian Noble said:

Apr 24, 2018 20:06:01 GMT Jeremiah Hill said:

How about no in season player agents?

Wouldn't it make more sense that someone gets a player mid-season purely based on money given that's what happens in real life?

I dunno about this, regular season PAs were introduced for a reason.

The Whiteside thread was one of the more fun threads in a while. Just a flat bidding war. Whoever offers the most immediate money. Mid-season FA is gonna accept 5 million for one year over a 3 year deal for 1.5 mil a year. It would also help keep people from locking up new FAs overly long term and cheap. 

[Brian Scalabrine]

Apr 25, 2018 12:07:41 GMT Jeremiah Hill said:

Apr 25, 2018 10:13:27 GMT Ian Noble said:

I dunno about this, regular season PAs were introduced for a reason.

The Whiteside thread was one of the more fun threads in a while. Just a flat bidding war. Whoever offers the most immediate money. Mid-season FA is gonna accept 5 million for one year over a 3 year deal for 1.5 mil a year. It would also help keep people from locking up new FAs overly long term and cheap. 

I also like this idea

[Walt Frazier]

If nothing else, our PAs need this mindset.

[James Kay]

Ian Noble

Concerns which weren't addressed:

Was Belinelli on the FA list? You said he was there since August which is just plain incorrect because he was only recently released in March.

Can over the cap teams bid on agents rated 70 or higher?

Is this contract going to stand? You're just going to take Belinelli for 1 million a year for four years?

[Ian Noble]

Apr 25, 2018 14:07:23 GMT James Kay said:

Ian Noble

Concerns which weren't addressed:

Was Belinelli on the FA list? You said he was there since August which is just plain incorrect because he was only recently released in March.

Can over the cap teams bid on agents rated 70 or higher?

Is this contract going to stand? You're just going to take Belinelli for 1 million a year for four years?

1. Yes obviously Belinelli was on the FA List. The bit I got wrong was the 'since August' bit. Looks like he's been available since March 15th.

2. This has been a grey area for a while. There used to be a rule stating that players rated above 70 could not be signed for anything smaller than the league minimum contract, but I forgot the rule existed and so did the player agents, so a few 70+ players got signed to the minimum and eventually I just removed the rule and left it up to the player agents. I'm content to keep it that way actually.

3. I think it should stand. I'm hyped I got Belinelli for so cheap when he's been on the market for 6 weeks or so. I'm pretty sure that every single example of something happening in the past, when we've come across something we don't like that requires a rule change, such as the Josh Barber rule or your very own James Kay rule, we've allowed the first example to stand but implemented the rule afterwards. On top of that - this signing didn't even require a rule change anyway, just a methodology change from the Player Agents to post a thread here when a new offer arrives and be more scrupulous with deals.