I've never seen Danny Ainge make a stupid trade before today.
The Celtics just took themselves out of contention with this move. Then again, it may be by design. This is the Cleveland-Golden State show for the next 2-3 years and maybe they knew that so grab Kyrie who's locked up for a few years, let Tatum simmer for a bit and then go from there.
Honestly would this trade have passed in this league?
Kyrie
for
Isaiah Thomas Jae Crowder Ante Zizic Brooklyn 1st (likely a top 5 minimum)
It makes a LITTLE bit of sense given that Thomas is gonna be looking for a major contract but damn.
This is a great deal for the Cavs. We get the only player that the GSW don't have an answer for in Thomas and a tough defender in Crowder (from that same team that consistently played GSW tough) who will benefit from playing off of both LeBron and Isaiah Thomas. Ante Zizic who we can throw at Zaza.
What they do with the 1st will be very interesting. I could see a deal that combined with Kevin Love nets them a real difference maker. Or they could just hold onto it in the event that LeBron decides to go to another team. Given that the best prospect since LBJ is in this year's draft it wouldn't be a surprise to me. Cleveland now has options that they didn't have before, bravo to whoever the architect of this deal was.
Last Edit: Aug 23, 2017 14:46:01 GMT by Jeremiah Hill: Mixed up tatum and porter lol
Personal Rating System so you know where I'm coming from. Superstars 90+ All-Star 85-89 Great Starters 81-84 Starter Caliber 79-80 Good Bench Guys 77-78 3pt Specialist type guys 75-76 Prospects/End of the Bench 69-74
Given that Kyrie is demanding out of Cleveland it does perplex me how Danny Ainge gives up this much for Kyrie.
It's kinda hilarious considering one of my main plans of attack to get Kyrie from Portland this off-season was acquiring Isaiah Thomas and then making a deal. Alas JR Wiles, Isaiah's status only went from "never trading" to "offer up" after his Bird Rights disappeared!!
Cleveland will also have D5 SAS's backcourt with Rose and IT4.
This actually makes me want to stop pursuing Kyrie. I don't want my team to be too similar to the real life Celtics otherwise there'll be no frame for comparison!
First game of the year is Kyrie's return to Cleveland. Is he gonna get booed?
Probably although not really fair to him.
Personal Rating System so you know where I'm coming from. Superstars 90+ All-Star 85-89 Great Starters 81-84 Starter Caliber 79-80 Good Bench Guys 77-78 3pt Specialist type guys 75-76 Prospects/End of the Bench 69-74
C - Al Horford F - Marcus Morris F - Gordon Hayward G - Jaylen Brown G - Kyrie Irving
6 - Marcus Smart
if Jaylen gets to start I'm going to be so excited
Tatum is already better than Brown. I'd play Hayward at the 2 and Tatum at the 3. I find it interesting that now they made minutes for ANOTHER iso type player in Tatum. So Kyrie and Tatum will be fighting Hayward who's a better passer than either for touches. Gonna be a weird dynamic.
Personal Rating System so you know where I'm coming from. Superstars 90+ All-Star 85-89 Great Starters 81-84 Starter Caliber 79-80 Good Bench Guys 77-78 3pt Specialist type guys 75-76 Prospects/End of the Bench 69-74
Wow, that's really impressive, if he can get that 3pt up a little bit he'll really be a weapon.
Jaylen Brown Second Year Summer League (IE the one he's supposed to dominate):
13.2ppg 7.4rpg 1.4apg 40% FG 30% 3pt 61% FT
Brown couldn't even get over 40% FG against scrubs after supposedly having a "great" year last season. Jaylen Brown is basically a slightly better Jae Crowder. That's not your fault that's just how bad that draft was.
Personal Rating System so you know where I'm coming from. Superstars 90+ All-Star 85-89 Great Starters 81-84 Starter Caliber 79-80 Good Bench Guys 77-78 3pt Specialist type guys 75-76 Prospects/End of the Bench 69-74
Cmon Jeremiah. Jaylen played key minutes in the playoffs and actually looked like he belonged on the floor. Tatum hasn't played a single game yet.
There's nothing less meaningful than summer league stats. Also Brown looked better than Tatum in the Utah SL game I watched
Brown had his best game in the playoffs in a blowout loss. The only game they won was the one where he scored 0 points and played like 10 minutes. He looks like he belongs because he's huge and athletic. Wesley Johnson "looked" like a great player too until you check the stats.
Personal Rating System so you know where I'm coming from. Superstars 90+ All-Star 85-89 Great Starters 81-84 Starter Caliber 79-80 Good Bench Guys 77-78 3pt Specialist type guys 75-76 Prospects/End of the Bench 69-74
Cmon Jeremiah. Jaylen played key minutes in the playoffs and actually looked like he belonged on the floor. Tatum hasn't played a single game yet.
There's nothing less meaningful than summer league stats. Also Brown looked better than Tatum in the Utah SL game I watched
Brown had his best game in the playoffs in a blowout loss. The only game they won was the one where he scored 0 points and played like 10 minutes. He looks like he belongs because he's huge and athletic. Wesley Johnson "looked" like a great player too until you check the stats.
I can't believe you're comparing Wesley Johnson to Jaylen.
He's a rookie who averaged 14, 6 and 2 per 36 in the playoffs. On 54% true shooting. And he played good defense. That's damn good.
Just because they didn't beat the Cavs doesn't mean the Celtics weren't good. They were indisputably a top 5 team last year and Jaylen was a key part of that, at only 20 years old.
Your expectations for young players are too high. Most aren't as good as KAT out of the gate.
Good trade for Boston imo. I don't think they gave up as much as everyone else seems to think they did. Isaiah Thomas had the best year of his career and he'll never replicate it imo. Not that he'll be bad in Cleveland, but he's not on the same talent level as Kyrie. He's also older and will likely get hugely overpaid next summer. IT is not worth a max contract, but you probably have to give him one.
Crowder is solid, but Jaylen Brown, Jayson Tatum and Marcus Morris can easily pick up the slack. Zizic, who knows, I think he's a good prospect to be honest, but he's kind of irrelevant in a trade of this caliber. So the pick is really the make or break piece. I'm not so sure it'll be top 5, though it's guaranteed to be lottery. Basketball is about quality over quantity, especially at the stage Boston is at where they're trying to jump up to become a legit contender.
I'm also really happy to see the beginning of the end for the Cavs. I can't wait for Lebron to leave next summer.
Good trade for Boston imo. I don't think they gave up as much as everyone else seems to think they did. Isaiah Thomas had the best year of his career and he'll never replicate it imo. Not that he'll be bad in Cleveland, but he's not on the same talent level as Kyrie. He's also older and will likely get hugely overpaid next summer. IT is not worth a max contract, but you probably have to give him one.
Crowder is solid, but Jaylen Brown, Jayson Tatum and Marcus Morris can easily pick up the slack. Zizic, who knows, I think he's a good prospect to be honest, but he's kind of irrelevant in a trade of this caliber. So the pick is really the make or break piece. I'm not so sure it'll be top 5, though it's guaranteed to be lottery. Basketball is about quality over quantity, especially at the stage Boston is at where they're trying to jump up to become a legit contender.
I'm also really happy to see the beginning of the end for the Cavs. I can't wait for Lebron to leave next summer.
Don't worry, the Raptors will still suck and just lose to the Celtics instead.
Brown had his best game in the playoffs in a blowout loss. The only game they won was the one where he scored 0 points and played like 10 minutes. He looks like he belongs because he's huge and athletic. Wesley Johnson "looked" like a great player too until you check the stats.
I can't believe you're comparing Wesley Johnson to Jaylen.
He's a rookie who averaged 14, 6 and 2 per 36 in the playoffs. On 54% true shooting. And he played good defense. That's damn good.
Just because they didn't beat the Cavs doesn't mean the Celtics weren't good. They were indisputably a top 5 team last year and Jaylen was a key part of that, at only 20 years old.
Your expectations for young players are too high. Most aren't as good as KAT out of the gate.
Jaylen is gonna be a very nice player
Brown actually exceeded my expectations for him. Rookies are terrible. Thats what people in this league and in the general sports community online don't seem to understand. Rookies are borderline useless in the NBA. Even the ones that put up numbers like KAT did aren't doing it in terms of making any actual difference to team success.
His averages over that series are true. But they lack context, he had one pretty good game one good game and 3 terrible games. That's not even to say that he couldn't have put up numbers had he ended up on Brooklyn or something. But he certainly wouldn't average 45 percent over the season. He showed that he can't convert when he's a primary focus of the defense in summer league both years.
People wanted to boost him into the mid to high 70's based off that series which is ridiculous. He's simply not that good now. He's an alright 9th guy off the bench that's fine for a rookie out of last year's class. But people act like because he is one of the better rookies that he's automatically really good need to look at the rookie results. A guy who averaged like 8 points won rookie of the year. That's laughably bad for a ROY candidate and as always I'm comparing him to other regular replacement level NBA players and he's still not even close. He'll get there I think but its not a given based on what I've seen from him.
Personal Rating System so you know where I'm coming from. Superstars 90+ All-Star 85-89 Great Starters 81-84 Starter Caliber 79-80 Good Bench Guys 77-78 3pt Specialist type guys 75-76 Prospects/End of the Bench 69-74
Don't worry, the Raptors will still suck and just lose to the Celtics instead.
Oh I don't expect the Raptors to win anything. They're the Memphis Grizzlies of the east. They've put together a really good team, but it doesn't mean shit because you can't win without a great team. The NBA is so top heavy that all but a few teams don't even stand a chance. So whatever.
I still respect what the Raptors have done way more than the Cavs. Masai is a great GM that has his shit figured out. The Cavs are only good because Lebron happened to be born in Ohio. Even then, they still churn through coaches and front office staff like they're jealous of the Sacramento Kings or something. You'd think having one of the greatest players of all time would lead to some stability, but I guess not. Soon they'll be back where they belong, right at the bottom of the standings.
Don't worry, the Raptors will still suck and just lose to the Celtics instead.
Oh I don't expect the Raptors to win anything. They're the Memphis Grizzlies of the east. They've put together a really good team, but it doesn't mean shit because you can't win without a great team. The NBA is so top heavy that all but a few teams don't even stand a chance. So whatever.
I still respect what the Raptors have done way more than the Cavs. Masai is a great GM that has his shit figured out. The Cavs are only good because Lebron happened to be born in Ohio. Even then, they still churn through coaches and front office staff like they're jealous of the Sacramento Kings or something. You'd think having one of the greatest players of all time would lead to some stability, but I guess not. Soon they'll be back where they belong, right at the bottom of the standings.
Cavs fans don't like our owner much more than anyone else. Don't blame you for having that sentiment. Our fans are pretty great though in terms of supporting a team which is something the Raptor and Cavs fans have in common.
Personal Rating System so you know where I'm coming from. Superstars 90+ All-Star 85-89 Great Starters 81-84 Starter Caliber 79-80 Good Bench Guys 77-78 3pt Specialist type guys 75-76 Prospects/End of the Bench 69-74
Don't worry, the Raptors will still suck and just lose to the Celtics instead.
Oh I don't expect the Raptors to win anything. They're the Memphis Grizzlies of the east. They've put together a really good team, but it doesn't mean shit because you can't win without a great team. The NBA is so top heavy that all but a few teams don't even stand a chance. So whatever.
I still respect what the Raptors have done way more than the Cavs. Masai is a great GM that has his shit figured out. The Cavs are only good because Lebron happened to be born in Ohio. Even then, they still churn through coaches and front office staff like they're jealous of the Sacramento Kings or something. You'd think having one of the greatest players of all time would lead to some stability, but I guess not. Soon they'll be back where they belong, right at the bottom of the standings.
That great player is also the biggest drama queen of them all. Love lebron, but he is petty as fuck
I can't believe you're comparing Wesley Johnson to Jaylen.
He's a rookie who averaged 14, 6 and 2 per 36 in the playoffs. On 54% true shooting. And he played good defense. That's damn good.
Just because they didn't beat the Cavs doesn't mean the Celtics weren't good. They were indisputably a top 5 team last year and Jaylen was a key part of that, at only 20 years old.
Your expectations for young players are too high. Most aren't as good as KAT out of the gate.
Jaylen is gonna be a very nice player
Brown actually exceeded my expectations for him. Rookies are terrible. Thats what people in this league and in the general sports community online don't seem to understand. Rookies are borderline useless in the NBA. Even the ones that put up numbers like KAT did aren't doing it in terms of making any actual difference to team success.
His averages over that series are true. But they lack context, he had one pretty good game one good game and 3 terrible games. That's not even to say that he couldn't have put up numbers had he ended up on Brooklyn or something. But he certainly wouldn't average 45 percent over the season. He showed that he can't convert when he's a primary focus of the defense in summer league both years.
People wanted to boost him into the mid to high 70's based off that series which is ridiculous. He's simply not that good now. He's an alright 9th guy off the bench that's fine for a rookie out of last year's class. But people act like because he is one of the better rookies that he's automatically really good need to look at the rookie results. A guy who averaged like 8 points won rookie of the year. That's laughably bad for a ROY candidate and as always I'm comparing him to other regular replacement level NBA players and he's still not even close. He'll get there I think but its not a given based on what I've seen from him.
Jaylen was just as good as Jae Crowder during the Playoffs. Sometimes he was our only bright spot! There's a reason he's not included in trade talks.
This season it's likely he will be starting at the 2. He will be overshadowed by Horford/Hayward/Kyrie but would Ainge and Stevens have pulled the trigger on the Kyrie Trade if they didn't think Jaylen was a solid choice? I can't wait to watch his progression.
Jaylen Brown did not average 14ppg in the playoffs. He averaged 5ppg and 12 mins per game with a whopping 21% shooting from 3. Yeah THATS the guy you want starting at SG lol. He didn't even average 14 ppg in any series Brian, where did you get that number?
Jae Crowder averaged 13.6ppg and 32mpg. Who was the guy they trusted most? I think we all know.
Brown is gonna get the opportunity to play big minutes because they just lost 68 minutes worth of starters on the wing in Crowder and Bradley. Not because of anything he did.
Personal Rating System so you know where I'm coming from. Superstars 90+ All-Star 85-89 Great Starters 81-84 Starter Caliber 79-80 Good Bench Guys 77-78 3pt Specialist type guys 75-76 Prospects/End of the Bench 69-74
Jaylen Brown did not average 14ppg in the playoffs. He averaged 5ppg and 12 mins per game with a whopping 21% shooting from 3. Yeah THATS the guy you want starting at SG lol. He didn't even average 14 ppg in any series Brian, where did you get that number?
Post by Brian Scalabrine on Aug 24, 2017 16:06:49 GMT
Rookies are almost universally bad players. Jaylen Brown was no exception. However he showed great skills, athleticism and potential during the regular season and especially the playoffs. And he's still 20 years old.
Jaylen is going to end up being a really good player on a really good team and you will look like a fool for what you said here
Rookies are almost universally bad players. Jaylen Brown was no exception. However he showed great skills, athleticism and potential during the regular season and especially the playoffs. And he's still 20 years old.
Jaylen is going to end up being a really good player on a really good team and you will look like a fool for what you said here
Rookies are almost universally bad players. Jaylen Brown was no exception. However he showed great skills, athleticism and potential during the regular season and especially the playoffs. And he's still 20 years old.
Jaylen is going to end up being a really good player on a really good team and you will look like a fool for what you said here
I see his peak at an 83 overall
This may be the homer in me but peak Jaylen Brown is over 90 in my opinion. I think he could become the best player from the 2016 Draft. The Celtics have Hayward and Kyrie now, but Jaylen could become better than them. It's unlikely, but it's not impossible.
Realistically I would be upset if Jaylen Brown didn't get above an 86 before all is said and done. Fight me!
This may be the homer in me but peak Jaylen Brown is over 90 in my opinion. I think he could become the best player from the 2016 Draft. The Celtics have Hayward and Kyrie now, but Jaylen could become better than them. It's unlikely, but it's not impossible.
Realistically I would be upset if Jaylen Brown didn't get above an 86 before all is said and done. Fight me!
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