|
Post by Andrei Kirilenko on Jul 23, 2017 21:32:44 GMT
Brooklyn Nets Send:80 Zach Randolph - 16,500,293 83 Jrue Holiday - $12,500,000 - $13,000,00071 Austin Rivers - $3,837,035 - $4,259,109 - $4,727,611 71 Miles Plumlee - $6,051,839 - $6,717,542 - $7,456,471 BKN 2020 2nd BKN 2021 2nd Total: $38,889,167 Brooklyn Nets Receive:81 Rudy Gay - $17,249,400 SAS 2021 1st Total : $17,249,400 San Antonio Spurs Send:87 Paul Millsap - $25,530,000 - $28,338,300 - $31,455,513 - $34,915,620 81 Rudy Gay - $17,249,400 73 Channing Frye - $3,001,232 75 Richard Jefferson - $2,553,000 78 Evan Turner - $8,778,713 - $9,744,371 75 Randy Foye - $800,000 - $900,000SAS 2021 1st Total: $57,912,345 (x1.25 = $72,390,431) San Antonio Spurs Receieve:86 Al Horford - $31,349,619 - $34,798,077 - $38,625,866 - $42,874,711 80 Zach Randolph - 16,500,293 83 Jrue Holiday - $12,500,000 - $13,000,00077 Kelly Olynyk - $1,894,566 71 Austin Rivers - $3,837,035 - $4,259,109 - $4,727,611 71 Miles Plumlee - $6,051,839 - $6,717,542 - $7,456,471 BKN 2020 2nd BKN 2021 2nd TOR 2021 2nd Total: $72,133,352 Toronto Raptors Send:86 Al Horford - $31,349,619 - $34,798,077 - $38,625,866 - $42,874,711 77 Kelly Olynyk - $1,894,566 TOR 2021 2nd Total: $33,244,185 (x1.25 = $41,555,231) Toronto Raptors Receive:87 Paul Millsap - $25,530,000 - $28,338,300 - $31,455,513 - $34,915,620 73 Channing Frye - $3,001,232 75 Richard Jefferson - $2,553,000 78 Evan Turner - $8,778,713 - $9,744,371 75 Randy Foye - $800,000 - $900,000Total: $40,662,945 JR Wiles Bryan Colangelo
|
|
|
Post by Andrei Kirilenko on Jul 23, 2017 21:34:19 GMT
I accept. This is a massive trade and probably involved more math than I've ever had to do before in D5. It also had more iterations than probably any trade I've ever been involved in, but I think it turned out well for everyone.
|
|
|
Post by Bryan Colangelo on Jul 23, 2017 21:37:36 GMT
Accept, I have limited access to internet right now but I will explain after. Also will respond to offers today. Sorry guys.
|
|
Kevin Hollis
Former Thunder GM for 7 years
All Star
Posts: 2,838
Dec 16, 2022 11:27:40 GMT
|
Post by Kevin Hollis on Jul 23, 2017 21:40:51 GMT
Toronto makes out like a bandit if others agree horford isn't an 86 anymore. Good deal for bkn and tor.
|
|
|
Post by Charles Barkley on Jul 23, 2017 21:42:06 GMT
How does a team manage to give up both the best player and best pick involved in a trade?
|
|
|
Post by Ian Noble on Jul 24, 2017 12:43:07 GMT
It's kinda funny to factor-in this trade from a few weeks ago where Gay joined the Spurs and Jrue joined the Nets, now that's being reversed, so it's almost like that SAS 2021 1st straight up for one year of 36 year old Zach Randolph on balance, which is turrrible. This trade by itself however is interesting and I will accept. Nets shed all that salary - I guess Andrei Kirilenko was thinking he'd get more in return (sorry for dragging along our negotiations too long!) for Jrue and Zach but the offers weren't forthcoming, so why not flip them back for Rudy and it's all bundled up in one package. JR Wiles gets a big-man pairing so their lineup is Horford - Randolph - someone - Point Guard - Isaiah Thomas I get this from Bryan Colangelo's perspective. The sticky bit is the Spurs 2021 1st. Let's be honest Zach Randolph is dropping off, this is a one-season trade made possible by shipping their insurance in the form of that pick, it's a head-scratcher but not bad enough to reject.
|
|
|
Post by Brian Scalabrine on Jul 24, 2017 13:59:58 GMT
Over the last 3 months the Spurs have traded a 2019 first round pick for Jrue Hooliday, subsequently traded away Holiday for Rudy Gay and a bunch of dead money and have now traded Rudy Gay and ANOTHER first round pick AND their 2nd best player to reacquire Holiday and get back Al Horford on a ginormous contract.
For those keeping track at home:
Spurs receive: Jrue Holiday for one year Zach Randolph for one year Kelly Olynk for one year Al Horford for 30+ million a year for 4 more years
Spurs trade: 2019 1st 2021 1st Evan Turner Paul Millsap on a smaller contract than Horford
Also once Holiday and ZBO leave next offseason the Spurs will be void of any assets and with less than $10 million in cap space
Only JR could go through with this series of transactions lol
|
|
Kevin Hollis
Former Thunder GM for 7 years
All Star
Posts: 2,838
Dec 16, 2022 11:27:40 GMT
|
Post by Kevin Hollis on Jul 24, 2017 14:13:27 GMT
Over the last 3 months the Spurs have traded a 2019 first round pick for Jrue Hooliday, subsequently traded away Holiday for Rudy Gay and a bunch of dead money and have now traded Rudy Gay and ANOTHER first round pick AND their 2nd best player to reacquire Holiday and get back Al Horford on a ginormous contract. For those keeping track at home: Spurs receive: Jrue Holiday for one year Zach Randolph for one year Kelly Olynk for one year Al Horford for 30+ million a year for 4 more years Spurs trade: 2019 1st 2021 1st Evan Turner Paul Millsap on a smaller contract than Horford Also once Holiday and ZBO leave next offseason the Spurs will be void of any assets and with less than $10 million in cap space Only JR could go through with this series of transactions lol Easy reject if you ask me. If the TC is here to protect teams and are letting a team literally trade away and for the same exact people it had in the first place, maybe it is time to speak up? Idk, just a thought. Don't really care either way.
|
|
|
Post by Ian Noble on Jul 24, 2017 14:18:56 GMT
Over the last 3 months the Spurs have traded a 2019 first round pick for Jrue Hooliday, subsequently traded away Holiday for Rudy Gay and a bunch of dead money and have now traded Rudy Gay and ANOTHER first round pick AND their 2nd best player to reacquire Holiday and get back Al Horford on a ginormous contract. For those keeping track at home: Spurs receive: Jrue Holiday for one year Zach Randolph for one year Kelly Olynk for one year Al Horford for 30+ million a year for 4 more years Spurs trade: 2019 1st 2021 1st Evan Turner Paul Millsap on a smaller contract than Horford Also once Holiday and ZBO leave next offseason the Spurs will be void of any assets and with less than $10 million in cap space Only JR could go through with this series of transactions lol Easy reject if you ask me. If the TC is here to protect teams and are letting a team literally trade away and for the same exact people it had in the first place, maybe it is time to speak up? Idk, just a thought. Don't really care either way. The Spurs still have a lot of assets after this trade though. I'm not going to search but I'm pretty sure I've heard the opposite argument given that GMs should be allowed to make trades, even if they're ripped off, if they still look ok afterwards. It is true though that JR's putting himself in a pickle here, to put it extremely Englishly. lol
|
|
|
Post by Jared Montini on Jul 24, 2017 14:25:37 GMT
He lost Jval in FA, isn't his only his only asset Isaiah Thomas? Rose stinks and is on a terrible deal, Horford on a bad deal. He has no cap space either
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Mar 29, 2024 14:24:03 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2017 14:47:06 GMT
Over the last 3 months the Spurs have traded a 2019 first round pick for Jrue Hooliday, subsequently traded away Holiday for Rudy Gay and a bunch of dead money and have now traded Rudy Gay and ANOTHER first round pick AND their 2nd best player to reacquire Holiday and get back Al Horford on a ginormous contract. For those keeping track at home: Spurs receive: Jrue Holiday for one year Zach Randolph for one year Kelly Olynk for one year Al Horford for 30+ million a year for 4 more years Spurs trade: 2019 1st 2021 1st Evan Turner Paul Millsap on a smaller contract than Horford Also once Holiday and ZBO leave next offseason the Spurs will be void of any assets and with less than $10 million in cap space Only JR could go through with this series of transactions lol Easy reject if you ask me. If the TC is here to protect teams and are letting a team literally trade away and for the same exact people it had in the first place, maybe it is time to speak up? Idk, just a thought. Don't really care either way. Sounds like we need some BK on the TC
|
|
|
Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on Jul 24, 2017 14:56:20 GMT
Which side are you? Accept - Not enough to reject Reject - It is pretty obvious that SAS will loss in this trade Pick one now
|
|
|
Post by Alex English on Jul 24, 2017 15:02:06 GMT
Yea, I think this could turn out really badly for the Spurs.
Randolph, Jrue and Olynyk will be around for one year. Next offseason they'll already have $85 million locked up. So maybe they keep Olynyk, or maybe Randolph but he'll likely have a rating decrease by that time. Jrue will certainly be gone, not just because of the money issues, but also the Spurs already have Isaiah Thomas and Derrick Rose.
This is just so shortsighted from SAS. They might be better for one season, then everything is set up to crumble moving beyond that. They were in a good place too. Paul Millsap was locked up and Isaiah Thomas has been around for long enough that he should re-sign. Rudy Gay likely wouldn't be too difficult to re-sign since his stock is so low. He's still a pretty good player though, so right there the Spurs could have a solid core for the foreseeable future.
That pick is just so dangerous. It's clearly what Josh is after too. Rudy Gay is useless to him, he'll just try and flip him again to a contender for some more young players/picks. I think Josh is definitely doing this with the foresight that it could bring a quick end to this rebuilt Spurs team that has finally gotten good. By the time that 2021 pick comes around the Spurs will have $78 million tied up in Horford and Rose alone. It's also very possible neither will be 80+ players by then too. They'll be fucked.
The Raptors obviously do this for Millsap who's the best player in the deal. They get even better and have the potential to challenge MIL, CHI and CHA in the east with one good playoff run.
I'm going to reject this. I think this makes it over the bar with how much it can fuck up the Spurs in the long run.
JR hasn't even accepted this yet, I hope he takes another look at this and decides against it.
|
|
Vlade Divac
Former Kings GM
Sophomore
Posts: 629
Feb 23, 2024 23:40:50 GMT
|
Post by Vlade Divac on Jul 24, 2017 16:17:08 GMT
Have you ever wondered if JR cares about the future at all? I think that is what this trade says. Good trade, Josh, and I want to let the TC know that I will take the Spurs if JR leaves them high and dry at a later date.
|
|
|
Post by Ian Noble on Jul 24, 2017 16:49:01 GMT
Have you ever wondered if JR cares about the future at all? I think that is what this trade says. Good trade, Josh, and I want to let the TC know that I will take the Spurs if JR leaves them high and dry at a later date. No you won't you're the Pistons GM
|
|
Vlade Divac
Former Kings GM
Sophomore
Posts: 629
Feb 23, 2024 23:40:50 GMT
|
Post by Vlade Divac on Jul 24, 2017 17:13:04 GMT
Have you ever wondered if JR cares about the future at all? I think that is what this trade says. Good trade, Josh, and I want to let the TC know that I will take the Spurs if JR leaves them high and dry at a later date. No you won't you're the Pistons GM Yes sir, but I have enjoyed taking a bad team so much if you need me. Basically, I ask what I can do for D5, not what D5 can do for me!
|
|
|
Post by Andrei Kirilenko on Jul 24, 2017 17:18:57 GMT
JR will have BRs on Olynyk, btw.
|
|
|
Post by Brian Scalabrine on Jul 24, 2017 17:26:55 GMT
JR will have BRs on Olynyk, btw. This changes everything
|
|
|
Post by JR Wiles on Jul 24, 2017 17:40:59 GMT
First of all I want to explain why I am doing this trade.
The Spurs went into this off-season with Jonas Valanciunas as a FA. We didn't have rules in place for him to be restricted, etc. We did not have the salary cap to fe-sign Jonas no matter what. The only way would been to have traded my core guys for cap space. We had a few offers, but there was no way we were trading Isaiah Thomas. He's my favorite player in the league for one and because I feel he will only get better IRL.
We had to figure a way to get a big man to replace Jonas. We have talked to player agents and GMs. No legit big man was going to sign. We had no choice but to trade to fill our positions and stay a playoff team.
I do understand that BKN and I just traded Holiday for Gay and honestly that was not a reason for doing this trade. We did this trade for Randolph and to fill all open positions. Doing so required certain cap figures.
We are high on Holiday but at the time we were looking to improve our SF issue. Gay was the answer. The thing is, acquiring Horford and trading Gay allowed us to fill all positions.
We also get a great player in Kelly and a decent guard in Rivers. Plus a big in Plumlee.
Rose is still a good NBA player. We were thinking to trade him instead of Gay, but we decided with the assets we have it's better to keep and acquire players with extended contracts. We really didn't want an expiring in Randolph but like I said we needed to do what we needed to fill positions.
Evan Turner had an off first year in Portland and I still have hope that improves. We are trading him, but a trade is in place right after the approval of this trade to re-aquire Turner. Everything was done for a reason and with decisions put in order.
We hate losing Millsap, but if you look at Horford...he was one of the top 3 players in the postseason IRL.
We feel we did what we had to and you guys can say what you want but I don't use draft picks. Never have and never want to. That's my choice. I stay active as long as my team is my team and there is no worry that I will ruin my team and lose. If it happens I mess things up, I promise to Ian and the league to start a rebuild and leave the team positive moving forward. That's speaking to far really because I'm a D5 GM for life...GO SPURS!!
PS. WE accept!!
|
|
|
Post by Andrei Kirilenko on Jul 24, 2017 17:54:29 GMT
Yea, I think this could turn out really badly for the Spurs. Randolph, Jrue and Olynyk will be around for one year. Next offseason they'll already have $85 million locked up. So maybe they keep Olynyk, or maybe Randolph but he'll likely have a rating decrease by that time. Jrue will certainly be gone, not just because of the money issues, but also the Spurs already have Isaiah Thomas and Derrick Rose. This is just so shortsighted from SAS. They might be better for one season, then everything is set up to crumble moving beyond that. They were in a good place too. Paul Millsap was locked up and Isaiah Thomas has been around for long enough that he should re-sign. Rudy Gay likely wouldn't be too difficult to re-sign since his stock is so low. He's still a pretty good player though, so right there the Spurs could have a solid core for the foreseeable future. I don't want to argue too much here, but this trade really isn't hurting JR as much as you are saying. If you look at value of give/get: Jrue = Gay... we proved that in a trade a month ago. Horford + Olynyk = Millsap... both Horford and Millsap are old man, they are both probably done in the next few years. JR probably comes out ahead here because he has another foundational piece in Olynyk who should play a prominent role in Miami this year. Remember, JR will have BRs on Olynyk. Randolph + 3 2nds = SAS 2021 1st... this is a first round pick that is 4 years away. Some people here trade 3 2nds for a 1st, or an 80 rated expiring for a 1st straight up. It is hard to argue that JR isn't getting value for his pick. You guys are saying this ruins his future, but he is basically trading 2 players + a 1st for 4 players + 3 2nds. The value is there, it doesn't ruin his future... it might actually help it once you consider Olynyk's value.
|
|
|
Post by JR Wiles on Jul 24, 2017 17:59:24 GMT
Not only that Holiday just re-signed with the Pelicans and I expect a big year from him.
I personally like Horford more than Millsap. He has a quiet game but does it all. Yes both guys are getting older, but by the time the decline alot..their contracts will be ending.
|
|
|
Post by Bryan Colangelo on Jul 24, 2017 18:01:55 GMT
Also to Add Kelly BR is huge. I decided to trade Kelly because he does not have a starting spot for me. He would've left in the off season even though I have Bird rights to him. I bet one of you guys would've offered him a starting spot and that would be it.
Since we are all talking about this 2021 1st rounder, and can somehow predict the future, I'm going to also predict Kelly has a breakout year with the Miami Heat in real life after signing that 4 year deal. I would imagine some of you guys here would agree.
Lets say Zack Randolph doesn't return with the Spurs, JR will now have a spot for Kelly to be the starting Center and move Al Horford to PF. His team is still doing great even after this year. Jure could now be trade bait to a team who needs a PG. Form what Ian said, he was one of the teams who wanted him. Idk what JR has plan for Jure but I can imagine he will use it to his advantage.
If Kelly did not have Bird rights, sure I can see why you guys feel it's a rip off but it's not as bad is you guys are making it sound.
|
|
|
Post by JR Wiles on Jul 24, 2017 18:07:19 GMT
Thomas Rose Turner Randolph Horford
Holiday Rivers Plumlee Olynk
|
|
|
Post by Brian Scalabrine on Jul 24, 2017 18:09:59 GMT
Jure could now be trade bait to a team who needs a PG. Maybe JR can trade him for 2 first round picks....
|
|
|
Post by JR Wiles on Jul 24, 2017 18:10:13 GMT
Thomas Rose Turner Randolph Horford Holiday Rivers Plumlee Olynk Attachments:
|
|
|
Post by Charles Barkley on Jul 24, 2017 18:21:32 GMT
Thomas Rose Turner Randolph Horford Holiday Rivers Plumlee Olynk Versus Cleveland Horford was 12.4 PPG, 4.2 RPG, 4.4 Assits per game, with 0.6 blocks I think, in 33.3 MPG. I am not a Horford fan and I think Millsap is a much better player and will be better in Denver, and I really don't like Millsap
|
|
Vlade Divac
Former Kings GM
Sophomore
Posts: 629
Feb 23, 2024 23:40:50 GMT
|
Post by Vlade Divac on Jul 24, 2017 19:39:16 GMT
Yea, I think this could turn out really badly for the Spurs. Randolph, Jrue and Olynyk will be around for one year. Next offseason they'll already have $85 million locked up. So maybe they keep Olynyk, or maybe Randolph but he'll likely have a rating decrease by that time. Jrue will certainly be gone, not just because of the money issues, but also the Spurs already have Isaiah Thomas and Derrick Rose. This is just so shortsighted from SAS. They might be better for one season, then everything is set up to crumble moving beyond that. They were in a good place too. Paul Millsap was locked up and Isaiah Thomas has been around for long enough that he should re-sign. Rudy Gay likely wouldn't be too difficult to re-sign since his stock is so low. He's still a pretty good player though, so right there the Spurs could have a solid core for the foreseeable future. I don't want to argue too much here, but this trade really isn't hurting JR as much as you are saying. If you look at value of give/get: Jrue = Gay... we proved that in a trade a month ago. Horford + Olynyk = Millsap... both Horford and Millsap are old man, they are both probably done in the next few years. JR probably comes out ahead here because he has another foundational piece in Olynyk who should play a prominent role in Miami this year. Remember, JR will have BRs on Olynyk. Randolph + 3 2nds = SAS 2021 1st... this is a first round pick that is 4 years away. Some people here trade 3 2nds for a 1st, or an 80 rated expiring for a 1st straight up. It is hard to argue that JR isn't getting value for his pick. You guys are saying this ruins his future, but he is basically trading 2 players + a 1st for 4 players + 3 2nds. The value is there, it doesn't ruin his future... it might actually help it once you consider Olynyk's value. Lol, I will give you all my 2nds for the Spurs 2021 1st because I think it will be a top 5 pick.
|
|
|
Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on Jul 24, 2017 22:47:20 GMT
I think the accept side is tilting the arguments into their favor.. Come on reject side, tilt it back!
|
|
|
Post by Jared Montini on Jul 24, 2017 23:02:00 GMT
Jr just stated that he never has drafted before and that he doesn't ever wanna draft. I wasn't in the league but didn't his pick end up top 5 1 year. He's trading the best player in this deal and his teams not getting any better. No one on his teams gonna increase because he doesn't draft rookies. that whole not drafting scares me a bit
|
|
|
Post by Walt Frazier on Jul 24, 2017 23:31:57 GMT
I need to think about this more but one thing is certainly true to me: Just because JR does not want to or care about drafting DOES NOT mean his picks should have any less value. He needs to be aware of the league-wide value of picks and the longevity of this league, and how these picks can change value based on team setup over 3-4 years.
I'm leaning on reject but need to give it a better look before officially voting.
|
|