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Post by Jared Montini on Feb 13, 2017 20:17:36 GMT
Suns Trade
80 Tobias Harris $22,250,000 $24,697,500 $27,414,225 $30,429,790 $33,299,890
For
Was Trades
76 Roy Hibbert $16,452,122 $17,452,122 2020 1st(WAS) Washington has the cap space to do this
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Post by Jared Montini on Feb 13, 2017 20:18:15 GMT
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Post by Charles Barkley on Feb 13, 2017 22:00:57 GMT
Ooof
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Post by Ian Noble on Feb 13, 2017 22:28:28 GMT
Hmm ok, I would love to hear from Kareem why he wants Tobias Harris whilst his team sucks! Do you think he's the missing piece that will make you a contender? Cos I don't think he willl be.
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Kevin Hollis
Former Thunder GM for 7 years
All Star
Posts: 2,838
Dec 16, 2022 11:27:40 GMT
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Post by Kevin Hollis on Feb 13, 2017 22:38:01 GMT
Tobias can't even get in the starting rotation
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Post by Jared Montini on Feb 13, 2017 22:46:34 GMT
Tobias can't even get in the starting rotation hes started in 75% of the games this year
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Kevin Hollis
Former Thunder GM for 7 years
All Star
Posts: 2,838
Dec 16, 2022 11:27:40 GMT
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Post by Kevin Hollis on Feb 13, 2017 22:58:10 GMT
Tobias can't even get in the starting rotation hes started in 75% of the games this year My bad, had Stanley Johnson on my mind.
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Feb 13, 2017 23:05:51 GMT
Man if my trade got rejected there should be no chance this trash passes
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Post by Kareem Abdul-Jabbar on Feb 14, 2017 1:16:03 GMT
I Accept. I don't think he'll that good to lift my team for the current season and the next 2 seasons but his young and good, I believe. Tanking for the next 3 years, so 2020 it's already time to give some contention. And also Guards Prospects in 2020. ^^
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Post by Charles Barkley on Feb 14, 2017 1:55:11 GMT
I Accept. I don't think he'll that good to lift my team for the current season and the next 2 seasons but his young and good, I believe. Tanking for the next 3 years, so 2020 it's already time to give some contention. And also Guards Prospects in 2020. ^^ You do realize there have been teams tanking for 3 years that end up tanking for 5 years all the time, right? I understand the logic though, you're a struggling, lower tier team, who is looking for a starter for the foreseeable future. Having said that, I do not think Tobias Harris is the one guy I would put my money on. If you want to give yourself a ticking time bomb and trade the 2020 pick, be my guest, but I don't think Toby is the guy to do it with. There's plenty of players out there on a solid deal who are young and locked up for the foreseeable future, I would rather see you go after one of them with this pick, than Toby.
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Post by Alex English on Feb 15, 2017 3:01:57 GMT
I can accept this I guess. It is a little risky, but Tobias Harris isn't a bad player and we've seen plenty of teams do quick rebuilds through trading and free agency. It doesn't always have to be via non-stop tanking. I don't like this, but I don't think the value is so outbalanced that it needs a reject.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Feb 16, 2017 3:40:33 GMT
There's something about Washington moving 1st round picks that just gets me all TRIGGERED
New GM (this isn't TMac), sure, just really not sure Tobias is worth what is still likely to be a high pick. I guess maybe (no guarantees on any pick, ever). It's probably not rejectable, but again, got me triggered and it's really hard to accept.
Thinking about it a little more.
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Post by Ian Noble on Feb 16, 2017 19:00:24 GMT
This makes me happy for the Suns but unhappy for Washington, because barring a series of extremely lucky events there's no way it fits with what they're doing.
For Washington this deal devalues their own picks whilst they're trying to rebuild and gets rid of one after they've handicapped their own rebuild.
I reject.
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Post by Bryan Colangelo on Feb 16, 2017 19:21:24 GMT
I reject as well, I believe WAS shouldn't be trading their 1st rounder at this point.
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Post by Jared Montini on Feb 17, 2017 0:01:42 GMT
No one knows where that pick will end up, that pick may be a huge bust or a huge winner. We dont even know how good that draft class will be. Washington is going to have a good pick in this year and he has cap space to sign free agents. trading Hibbert for Harris may cause his tank to be even better because he has no center at all. This trade is not bad enough to reject
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Feb 17, 2017 5:42:39 GMT
No one knows where that pick will end up, that pick may be a huge bust or a huge winner. We dont even know how good that draft class will be. Washington is going to have a good pick in this year and he has cap space to sign free agents. trading Hibbert for Harris may cause his tank to be even better because he has no center at all. This trade is not bad enough to reject Jared it is very hard to go from bottom five in the league to even the playoffs. Look at Boston. They've had 3 or 4 top 5 picks and like 10 other draft picks. And still might miss the playoffs in year 4 of his plan. The last GM of the Wizards made 2 or 3 similar trades to this and then just left. Its essentially crippled the team moving forward which is why the trade committee is very protective of them.
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Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on Feb 17, 2017 5:51:12 GMT
To make it more straightforward and account for UNCERTAINTIES, just look at that pick as the 15th pick of the 2020 draft...
Is it fair or not??
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Post by Ian Noble on Feb 17, 2017 11:51:12 GMT
To make it more straightforward and account for UNCERTAINTIES, just look at that pick as the 15th pick of the 2020 draft... Is it fair or not?? Look at the 2017 pick, 2018, 2019 picks as well though. They were going to be Top 5, now they're late lottery.
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Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on Feb 17, 2017 12:03:03 GMT
To make it more straightforward and account for UNCERTAINTIES, just look at that pick as the 15th pick of the 2020 draft... Is it fair or not?? Look at the 2017 pick, 2018, 2019 picks as well though. They were going to be Top 5, now they're late lottery. And finishing in the late lottery give you better leverage in the free-agency....... While still having a chance of getting one of those top 3 picks.... It is true that finishing near the bottom and near the top is always better than finishing in the middle but with proper team-building and reasoning, mediocrity is not always the worst thing in the world...
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Post by Ian Noble on Feb 17, 2017 12:04:26 GMT
Look at the 2017 pick, 2018, 2019 picks as well though. They were going to be Top 5, now they're late lottery. And finishing in the late lottery give you better leverage in the free-agency....... While still having a chance of getting one of those top 3 picks.... It is true that finishing near the bottom and near the top is always better than finishing in the middle but with proper team-building and reasoning, mediocrity is not always the worst thing in the world... Is it just you controlling both the Wiz and Cavs? Or is it really your bro?
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Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on Feb 17, 2017 12:10:34 GMT
And finishing in the late lottery give you better leverage in the free-agency....... While still having a chance of getting one of those top 3 picks.... It is true that finishing near the bottom and near the top is always better than finishing in the middle but with proper team-building and reasoning, mediocrity is not always the worst thing in the world... Is it just you controlling both the Wiz and Cavs? Or is it really your bro? No.... I am just tired of this thinking that TANKING for SEVERAL years is the only way to the top. I am not arguing that this is a fair trade and needed to be accepted... I am against TURNING this league into a league of tanking zombies... If you keep on pushing the idea that transactions, that will push teams with bad rosters into winning more games, is a VERY BAD decision, then this is NOT REALISTIC already...
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Feb 17, 2017 12:30:58 GMT
Is it just you controlling both the Wiz and Cavs? Or is it really your bro? No.... I am just tired of this thinking that TANKING for SEVERAL years is the only way to the top. I am not arguing that this is a fair trade and needed to be accepted... I am against TURNING this league into a league of tanking zombies... If you keep on pushing the idea that transactions, that will push teams with bad rosters into winning more games, is a VERY BAD decision, then this is NOT REALISTIC already... I do agree that right now literally everyone is zigging (tanking) so it might actually be a decent idea to zag and try to get players. There is something to be said for doing something different than everyone else (real life Spurs come to mind). However, in this particular case, Washington has in my opinion, D'Angelo Russell as his only prospect who's upside is probably starter. The rest of his team is either really old guys who aren't in the league or future role players and bench riders. This draft is great in the top 7. Wouldn't it be awesome to see him get at least one more young guy to go with Russell. Right now it's looking like he'll get a future pretty solid wing player at minimum. If he lucks out and gets Fultz or Ball he can trade D'Angelo for another guy that pairs well and then he can then look to start acquiring players. For example, just asking Jared Montini, do you feel good knowing that your team doesn't have your picks for this year and in 2019? And judging by the way Jared is off-loading picks Cleveland is probably gonna have a really good pick 2019. Washington was in a similar predicament last year to Detroit this year, basically having 0 talent worth holding on to. Having him sacrifice his future assets which could be VERY good for a guy who is generally regarded as alright just seems silly to me. The reasons that Phoenix is selling on these players means that Washington has all of the leverage here. Phx wants to clear 20 million and be worse for next season. He can ask for a 1st but why give it to him when you know that he's not likely to move the needle for your team in any significant way. I have 0 problem with Washington acquiring Tobias, I just don't see him being worth what is likely a top 10 pick still in 2019.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Apr 20, 2024 5:03:21 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2017 13:26:29 GMT
Kareem and Hanamichi are not the same person.
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Feb 17, 2017 18:30:33 GMT
Kareem and Hanamichi are not the same person. OK Josh.
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Post by Jared Montini on Feb 17, 2017 19:30:54 GMT
The reason I'm trading away all my assets for picks is because I don't have my 2019 pick, IDC how good I make the Cavs pick in 2019 because it doesn't concern me anymore. What matters is tanking for 2018 and 2020
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Feb 18, 2017 2:09:41 GMT
The reason I'm trading away all my assets for picks is because I don't have my 2019 pick, IDC how good I make the Cavs pick in 2019 because it doesn't concern me anymore. What matters is tanking for 2018 and 2020 Your team is in a better spot than Washington. Any reject is going to be to protect Washington in this trade. Not you.
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Post by Ian Noble on Feb 19, 2017 9:52:33 GMT
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Post by Danny Longley on Feb 19, 2017 13:29:38 GMT
Accept.
Tobias is 24 and an okay starter - Washington has a few young pieces that look solid and could be good while he's relevant. And besides - if you're worried about the current pick, it's not like Phoenix is tearing up the league even with Harris.
Wouldn't do it either, but I don't agree that it's rejectable.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Feb 19, 2017 16:56:48 GMT
OK. Facts.
Wizards are 5.5 Games out of the playoffs right now, while on a 3 game winning streak. Those 3 games they've won on that modest streak are 30% of their wins for the entire season (10). Conclusion - While a player like Tobias may keep them about where they are in the standings, I doubt he really makes the difference in climbing the standings over the Celtics, Knicks, Magic, and then Pacers/Nets to actually get into the 8th spot.
Wizards are 4.5 Games out of the #1 slot in the Lotto. They are currently the 5th worst record in the league, and just barely above the 76ers who should probably end up better than them. The Pistons may also do what they can do win this year at some point, so that's another team ripe for the picking on the tank-train. Conclusion - They're the 5th worst team in the league and that 3-game win streak, which will likely correct itself with a 6-8 game losing streak at some point, has skewed them higher than they really should be. Much closer to being the 1st pick than being a playoff team.
Roy Hibbert, as crappy as he is in his own right, was probably the Wizards' 5th or 6th best player, however, tied for their 2nd best rating. Conclusion - 76 Hibbert to 80 Harris will not make a huge difference in this game. I suppose 76 Ed Davis takes over at Center? Or 73 Nogueira? If it's Davis, he likely needs a decrease. So, again, this doesn't really move the needle all that much in this Sim for W-L. Washington remains closer to the #1 pick than the Playoffs.
Future of this team: Tobias instantly becomes their 2nd best player IMO (after D'Angelo Russell). Nogueira has some talent but the addition of Ibaka to his team IRL hurts a bit. Larry Nance Jr is possibly his 4th best player, but he, along with guys like Rivers, Burke, and Hardaway Jr are role players and probably shouldn't be relied on as more than bench players.
So, he has about 2.5 starters who are not exactly setting the world on fire (they're not on their way to being 88's or 90+, at all, which is where we start to see big changes in team performance, and heck, they're not even on their way to mid-80's, which you need multiple players in that range to have a real chance in this league). He does have his pick in 2017, 2018, and 2019. If he gets lucky and he hits on all 3, and IF those picks are high picks (which I guess this trade isn't changing the landscape of his record all that much, but it isn't helping him tank either), maybe he makes the playoffs by 2020? However, we've seen it's incredibly possible that anyone misses on 2/3 of those picks, in which case he's still just got Tobias Harris, a bunch of role players, and needing to re-sign D'Angelo Russell that year w/o his pick in his back pocket.
I really think this is a problem for the Washington franchise.
Reject.
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Post by Jared Montini on Feb 19, 2017 17:47:08 GMT
wow
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