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Post by Ian Noble on May 17, 2012 12:35:29 GMT
The following players will soon enter regular season free agency:
Jermaine O'Neal Al Thornton Chris Wilcox Jeff Green Greg Oden Note: Andreas Nocioni and Andrei Kirilenko will not be available, they are both under contract with Argentinian and Russian teams respectively.
I'd like to discuss what we think each player should be rated though, before they become available.
I honestly don't think any of them should be rated above 75, not even Jeff Green since he was diagnosed with an aortic aneurysm and we wont know if he'll ever be the same again until he returns next season.
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Post by Walt Frazier on May 17, 2012 13:22:44 GMT
Jermaine O'Neal - 72/73. 5 and 5 with close to 2 blocks per game in about 23 minutes is not bad, but he's clearly deteriorated.
Al Thornton - 68? Didn't play this year, when he played last year, he only put up 7 and 3. 3 pt shooting was terrible (in the teens for his %).
Chris Wilcox - 73ish. Also around a 5/4 type of guy, but he only put in about 17 mpg this season, AND he knows his limits by now. He shot nearly 60% this season, which I appreciate greatly. He's a good bench guy, 73 range works for me.
Jeff Green - 75. I hear what you are saying about Green, and I'm not choosing the 75 just b/c you said no one above 75. He does have some issues, but on the other hand, he's shown a big upside and ability to produce. 75 is a solid player who can start for some teams, or be a 6th man type for most. I think that's appropriate for Jeff.
Greg Oden...hmm. Man this guy's life must suck. When he's played, he's done well. Though it was limited time both seasons, he made a lot of improvement in his 2nd season - 1 mpg less, his blocks doubled, rebounds went up by 1.5, and FT% went up from 65% to 72%.
All that said, he's only played 13 games in his career. Maybe give him like a 72/73. He should be able to be useful but not be an impact player.
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Post by Danny Longley on May 17, 2012 14:11:54 GMT
Agree with Minny on most points, must disagree on Al Thornton. I don't think you should be using 3PT Shooting as an argument against him considering he only shot 26 total last year. Since his rookie year, he seems to have lost any delusions of being a shooter. While he may have a bit of a reputation as a chucker, he's actually got a decent FG% going for him. Maybe 71 or 72 cause I think he's at least as good if not better than most of the wings on the list at the moment.
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Post by Mike Krzyzewski on May 17, 2012 14:47:44 GMT
Agree almost entirely with Minny here.
2 differences.
Al Thornton should be around a 70-71 IMO. I know he didn't play but if he had, he would probably deserve something more like 75. I actually think he is going to bounce back pretty decent.
Odom - What can you say about Odom? If he plays in our sim, then it is assumed he is healthy. That has been his big problem obviously (health). So are we to say that he is going to be in our game, and healthy, but only a 72-73? I say at least a 75. If he truly played, he would be more than a bottom of the bench role player. He is a tough one to rate though.
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Post by Ian Noble on May 17, 2012 15:32:11 GMT
Oden - I think we have to take into account that his injuries essentially erase his trade value. He should NOT be above 70. I think he should be mid 60s, that's the only way to incorporate the fact that he's played 82 games in 5 seasons.
If he ever returns to the NBA and starts to succeed we'll review his rating again. Until then I'd give him a 64.
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Post by Alex English on May 17, 2012 16:19:45 GMT
Jermaine O'Neal - 73/74 - I think he can be a servicable back up but he is not the same player.
Al Thornton - 70 - I don't know what the problem is with him but he looked pretty good in his first two years but he has just gotten worse and worse since then.
Chris Wilcox - 74 - He is a pretty decent back up, when he actually got playing time in Seattle he put up 13 and 7 and everywhere else he goes he has good numbers for getting less than 20mpg
Jeff Green - 76/77 - If he was still in OKC he might have like an 80 rating and it seems like every random player in this league has a mid 70s rating and he is still only 25 years old. He deserves above a 75 in my opinion.
Greg Oden - ?? - I don't know, when he actually plays he is pretty damn good, he averages 15.3 points, 11.9 rebounds and 2.3 blocks per 36 minutes which would make him one of the top centers in the league. If we aren't simming injuries then I just don't think there is a realistic way to include Greg Oden.
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Post by Mike Krzyzewski on May 17, 2012 16:56:14 GMT
Oden - I think we have to take into account that his injuries essentially erase his trade value. He should NOT be above 70. I think he should be mid 60s, that's the only way to incorporate the fact that he's played 82 games in 5 seasons. If he ever returns to the NBA and starts to succeed we'll review his rating again. Until then I'd give him a 64. This is just from a discussion standpoint... Does that mean that all players who are retired, paying overseas or injured for more than a 1 year or so go into this same category? Oden may be the poster child for this type of rating but he won't be the only guy like this in the future. I like what making him a 64 does though. Basically, you are giving him a roster spot and hoping that he will make an eventual comeback. That is basically what any NBA team that gives him a contract right now is doing. This would be, IMO, a much better way to mimick real life than to give a 70 something rating.
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Post by Ian Noble on May 17, 2012 17:31:59 GMT
I like what making him a 64 does though. Basically, you are giving him a roster spot and hoping that he will make an eventual comeback. That is basically what any NBA team that gives him a contract right now is doing. This would be, IMO, a much better way to mimick real life than to give a 70 something rating. Yeah exactly, I think that's how we need to approach the situation.
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Otis Smith
Former Rockets GM
Sophomore
Posts: 280
Dec 24, 2013 6:32:46 GMT
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Post by Otis Smith on May 17, 2012 17:46:45 GMT
Jermaine O'neal: Should be around 70-72 at best. To me when he lost consistency with his jump shot, O'neal lost most of the value on the offensive side. Defensively can still bring it but the injuries plus his age are big limits for him changing the game there. Average to below average big now. Al Thornton: Should be around high 60s to low 70s. His transition from college to the NBA has been bad since he mostly relied on his size and strength in college against small wings. Unfortunately for him NBA wings are much bigger, faster, and stronger than SFs in college. Thorntons not a great shooter, passer (even for his position), or even great off the ball. To me he is the epitome of a mediocre wing. Chris Wilcox: 73 or 74. Wilcox is the prototypical high energy big and at this point in his career is a max 20 mpg player. Nothing special about him other than he can give you a good 15 to 20 minutes of the bench provide rebounding and some defence. In limited time with Detroit he did give 15/9 per 36 and had a 22% rebounding rate. So he is still useful to a team. Jeff Green: I would say maybe 73 to 75. Like Ian said he was diagnosed with aortic aneurysm (also looking at the wiki article it doesn't look like thats a walk in the park to recover from en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aortic_aneurysm#Signs_and_symptoms ). So he would have to prove next year if he still is the same player, personally I don't think he will but you never know. Greg Oden: 65 to 70. Personally if we are going for realism he shouldn't even be an option since he said himself he won't play in the 2013 season, let alone this year. Still he does have some value with rebounding and defence but the rest of his game is to underdeveloped for him to contribute really anything useful to a team right away.
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Samuel Jenkins
Former Grizzlies GM
Rookie
Posts: 50
May 31, 2012 23:02:23 GMT
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Post by Samuel Jenkins on May 17, 2012 19:31:01 GMT
I agree with some of the posters.
Greg Oden-70-73, only injuries have kept him out Chris Wilcox-74-76, maybe 77 Jermaine O'neal-Still a decent player should be between 73-77, might be able to start on some teams Al Thornton-68-73 Jeff Green-74-77 of course should really be 76-78, a legite starting small forward and could easily be 79, good three point shooter
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Post by thegame on May 17, 2012 19:31:52 GMT
O'neal should be at least a 73, reason being every other aging star still maintains a high rating such as Tmac,Redd,etc.
Oden same boat as oneal or better, when the man has played he has played well. Career average 12/8 when he has played. The man is not garbage just injury prone. Realistically with Oden if he could be 100% the rest of his nba Career I think he would easily be a top 3 center.
Green above 75 we don't know what the future holds, but the man can play and has a tremendous upside if he can come back healthy. I still think he should maintain his original rating.
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Post by Aubrey Graham on May 17, 2012 20:14:55 GMT
JO - 70-73 Oden - 67-70 Wilcox - 73-75 Green - 73-75
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Post by Dominique Wilkins on May 17, 2012 20:30:20 GMT
Greg Oden- 69-71 Chris Wilcox- 74-75 Jermaine O'neal- 73-74 Al Thornton- 70-72 Jeff Green- 75-77
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Lucas Lutkus
Former Bobcats GM
Sophomore
Posts: 684
Jul 16, 2013 9:57:53 GMT
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Post by Lucas Lutkus on May 17, 2012 20:46:12 GMT
Oden - 75-77 Wilcox - 73-75 O'Neal - 72-74 Thornton - 68-70 Jeff Green - 77-79
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Post by Walt Frazier on May 18, 2012 0:14:26 GMT
O'neal should be at least a 73, reason being every other aging star still maintains a high rating such as Tmac,Redd,etc. This is something we could address though. A mistake in the game or in the past does not mean future mistakes are acceptable.
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Post by thegame on May 18, 2012 0:30:32 GMT
That is true, but you have to take in consideration that JO has been banged up the past two season with Boston. When healthy the man still can produce 10/7 and play great post defense. His game has decline no doubt, but can you honestly say that of we line up all the bigs rated between 70-73, that Jo would be the best talent by a mile in that line up?
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Post by Walt Frazier on May 18, 2012 2:28:23 GMT
That is true, but you have to take in consideration that JO has been banged up the past two season with Boston. When healthy the man still can produce 10/7 and play great post defense. His game has decline no doubt, but can you honestly say that of we line up all the bigs rated between 70-73, that Jo would be the best talent by a mile in that line up? Just from my own team, Nikola Pekovic is a 73, and I'd take him in a heartbeat over O'Neal. Przybilla is at 71. Udoh is at a 72. Turiaf a 71. Joel Anthony a 71. Hansbrough 72. Darrell Arthur 73. Nikola Vucevic in at a 73. Asik at 72. Zaza is a 73. Personally, I like a lot of those players more than O'Neal.
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Post by Mike Krzyzewski on May 21, 2012 0:50:37 GMT
These guys aren't on the market yet, right?
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Post by Ian Noble on May 26, 2012 8:45:43 GMT
Miami submitted these to me via PM and after reading through this thread I think I agree with him.
We can review any changes at a later date:
Greg Oden-70 Jermaine O'Neal-75 Jeff Green-75 Al Thornton-70 Chris Wilcox-74
I'll enter them into Free Agency later today.
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