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Post by Blake Bowman on May 20, 2013 20:12:59 GMT
79 - Anderson Varejao :: $8,618,182 - $9,286,364 - $9,954,545 80 - Boris Diaw :: $8,000,000 82 - Rodney Stuckey :: $8,500,000 - $8,500,000 2014 First (MEM)
$25,118,182
for
79 - Tyrus Thomas :: $8,000,000 - $8,694,215 - $9,388,429 82 - David West :: $10,000,000 82 - Jameer Nelson :: $10,000,000 - $10,500,000 - $11,000,000 - $11,000,000 2015 First (SAS)
$28,000,000
I Accept
I clear some more cap, but mainly do it to get a starting PF to play by Hibbert and, I won't have to try to resign him. Also, I get a third first in 2014 and some more cap in the nearer future. I think it's fair, since I'm rebuilding and he's on a championship hunt it makes sense for both of us.
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Greg Schiano
Former Grizzlies GM
Rookie
Posts: 133
Oct 18, 2013 2:51:44 GMT
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Post by Greg Schiano on May 20, 2013 20:17:01 GMT
79 - Anderson Varejao :: $8,618,182 - $9,286,364 - $9,954,545 80 - Boris Diaw :: $8,000,000 82 - Rodney Stuckey :: $8,500,000 - $8,500,000 2014 First (MEM) $25,118,182 for 79 - Tyrus Thomas :: $8,000,000 - $8,694,215 - $9,388,429 82 - David West :: $10,000,000 82 - Jameer Nelson :: $10,000,000 - $10,500,000 - $11,000,000 - $11,000,0002015 First (SAS) $28,000,000
I Accept I clear some more cap, but mainly do it to get a starting PF to play by Hibbert and, I won't have to try to resign him. Also, I get a third first in 2014 and some more cap in the nearer future. I think it's fair, since I'm rebuilding and he's on a championship hunt it makes sense for both of us. A lot of people may be asking me, 'Greg, why mess up something that has gotten you this far.' Well 1. Stuckey and Diaw are two players I do NOT like. Diaw was brought in for this EXACT purpose. 2. Anderson Varajeo is not the player beside Nene that David West would be. This changes up the dynamic of my team a little bit. Also, Jameer Nelson is a player that I feel offers extreme upside. Mario Chalmers is a great player, one of our favorite players within the organization. I don't want people to take this as, Mario's on his way out. I also know people are going to look to my cap situation this off-season and say that I won't be able to resign both West and Anderson, well if that's the case.. I'll make my decision at the time. This move is to keep me in third in the west, and offer me a better chance to win the entire ship. We wish Rodney, Boris, and Anderson luck in Orlando. Welcome to Memphis, David, Tyrus and Jameer. We hope you fit in well.
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Greg Schiano
Former Grizzlies GM
Rookie
Posts: 133
Oct 18, 2013 2:51:44 GMT
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Post by Greg Schiano on May 20, 2013 20:24:07 GMT
Also, wanted to say Orlando, it was great working with you. Made the process easy, bounced ideas off each other and came to an agreement on a deal I think is personally, very fair.
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Post by Blake Bowman on May 20, 2013 20:32:07 GMT
Also, wanted to say Orlando, it was great working with you. Made the process easy, bounced ideas off each other and came to an agreement on a deal I think is personally, very fair. Great working with you too! Good luck in your championship ambitions and glad we could work a deal out.
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Post by Alex English on May 20, 2013 21:48:19 GMT
I like this a lot more for Orlando. Memphis would have both David West and Ryan Anderson expiring, there is no way both of those guys would come back. Even if they would Memphis doesn't have the money, he'll only have about 13mil in cap space with just 6 players signed. Whereas Blake now only has to deal with re-signing Hibbert since Diaw is bad enough to just let him walk and take the cap space. He also turns the money he's spending on Tyrus Thomas into a useful player in Varajeo. Plus he saves that 11mil from Jameer's player option year. At first glance it is a pretty even deal but considering David West is only a rental and that Memphis will only have 13mil to sign 6 or 7 players then it kinda sucks for the Grizzlies. I'm not sure it's bad enough to reject though.
Greg, what are your off-season plans?
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Glenn Robinson
Milwaukee Bucks
Starter
Posts: 1,226
Mar 2, 2024 5:20:47 GMT
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Post by Glenn Robinson on May 20, 2013 22:52:04 GMT
I'm going to reject this deal. Orlando gets the better draft pick, and the better players all while Memphis gets hosed taking on a very bad contract in Tyrus Thomas and an expiring West with not a lot of cap room to resign everybody. Keep in mind, Memphis WILL have to have 12 players eventually, especially with the injury settings taking effect next season, so that cap space will be eaten up by players to fill out the roster.
Sorry guys, just too lopsided for me.
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Greg Schiano
Former Grizzlies GM
Rookie
Posts: 133
Oct 18, 2013 2:51:44 GMT
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Post by Greg Schiano on May 21, 2013 17:27:58 GMT
I like this a lot more for Orlando. Memphis would have both David West and Ryan Anderson expiring, there is no way both of those guys would come back. Even if they would Memphis doesn't have the money, he'll only have about 13mil in cap space with just 6 players signed. Whereas Blake now only has to deal with re-signing Hibbert since Diaw is bad enough to just let him walk and take the cap space. He also turns the money he's spending on Tyrus Thomas into a useful player in Varajeo. Plus he saves that 11mil from Jameer's player option year. At first glance it is a pretty even deal but considering David West is only a rental and that Memphis will only have 13mil to sign 6 or 7 players then it kinda sucks for the Grizzlies. I'm not sure it's bad enough to reject though. Greg, what are your off-season plans? Has anyone in this league ever heard of the let these teams make their moves and govern themselves? I make moves, to set up other moves. David West will be here short term I feel. Andersosn is my offseason goal, West adds more talent. I can now work within Tyrus and Jameer and worry about those two contracts. I'm not worried about my cap space, as I'll be fine when this is all said and done. I'm trying to acquire talent, and picks? I get San Antonio's pick in 2015... they're the worst team in the league currently.
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Post by Danny Longley on May 21, 2013 17:50:54 GMT
Considering that injuries are going on for next season, and well, Varejao's history and likely hardiness rating (haven't really checked) - is this really all that bad? just my two cents.
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Greg Schiano
Former Grizzlies GM
Rookie
Posts: 133
Oct 18, 2013 2:51:44 GMT
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Post by Greg Schiano on May 21, 2013 17:55:06 GMT
Considering that injuries are going on for next season, and well, Varejao's history and likely hardiness rating (haven't really checked) - is this really all that bad? just my two cents. This. Tyrus is a useful player with his rating still as well. It'll help me in my hunt to get to the playoffs. Also, Why are we caring at all about Jameer's contract? Is this trade really in question? You guys micro-manage, man.
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Post by Alex English on May 21, 2013 19:21:06 GMT
Considering that injuries are going on for next season, and well, Varejao's history and likely hardiness rating (haven't really checked) - is this really all that bad? just my two cents. This. Tyrus is a useful player with his rating still as well. It'll help me in my hunt to get to the playoffs. Also, Why are we caring at all about Jameer's contract? Is this trade really in question? You guys micro-manage, man. Tyrus is only useful until the end of the season when he gets at least a 5 point decrease in his rating. We care about Jameer's contract because it's awful. You seem to not value your money at all. I'm not sure how you're supposed to improve your team when you have no money and mediocre players. This is not a good trade for your team, but whatever man, if your heart is set on making this deal then I accept. Also, how do we micro-manage? 189 of the 221 trades have been accepted, and some of the 32 rejected trades weren't even rejected, they had other issues with them. If anything the TC is too soft.
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Post by Ian Noble on May 21, 2013 20:02:49 GMT
I've not read the entirety of this thread yet but, Mr Schiano and Bowan, let me reacquaint you with league trading regulations which state that: Trading of draft picks is allowed up to a maximum of three years in the future. Only two of the three first round picks may be traded. Memphis has already traded 2 of their 3 draft picks away.
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Post by Alex English on May 21, 2013 20:19:09 GMT
I've not read the entirety of this thread yet but, Mr Schiano and Bowan, let me reacquaint you with league trading regulations which state that: Trading of draft picks is allowed up to a maximum of three years in the future. Only two of the three first round picks may be traded. Memphis has already traded 2 of their 3 draft picks away. Is that how the rule is? I thought you just had to have at least one 1st, but it could be another team's pick. So since he gets a first back in the deal it would be allowed.
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Post by Alex English on May 21, 2013 20:23:04 GMT
If that's the rule then JR shouldn't have been able to trade the Spurs 2015 1st to Orlando in the Beasley trade.
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Post by Ian Noble on May 21, 2013 20:33:41 GMT
If that's the rule then JR shouldn't have been able to trade the Spurs 2015 1st to Orlando in the Beasley trade.Looks like I missed that one, I didn't even update it on the Draft Rights spreadsheet! Dammit!
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Post by Blake Bowman on May 21, 2013 22:57:22 GMT
So, is it legal Ian?
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Glenn Robinson
Milwaukee Bucks
Starter
Posts: 1,226
Mar 2, 2024 5:20:47 GMT
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Post by Glenn Robinson on May 22, 2013 4:11:43 GMT
This trade won't work because of the draft pick. Ian is only Human and has to uphold the rule otherwise it opens up the floodgates for more illegal draft pick trading.
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Post by Blake Bowman on May 22, 2013 4:51:51 GMT
This trade won't work because of the draft pick. Ian is only Human and has to uphold the rule otherwise it opens up the floodgates for more illegal draft pick trading. It wasn't a clearly stated rule and happened in a previous trade without clarification. "Only two of the three first round picks may be traded." What about when BRK got their own 2013 pick back but traded his other picks in 2014 and 2015? TECHNICALLY, he traded all three picks so three of the three first round picks were traded, which is CLEARLY what this rule says may not happen. If this is legal, why is it not legal to trade away all of your firsts and receive other teams as yours? And SAS traded ALL of their six picks, not just their firsts. I'm not trying to get around a trade rule, I honestly didn't know that was the meaning of the rule and it has happened in previous cases. I know Ian is only human, and Ian is my favorite sim league Commish of any league I've ever been in, but I don't see how it would open flood gates if this trade were allowed to be voted upon by the Committee, at least, and after this trade it would be made more understandable that you may not trade your own picks consecutively. I mean, the trade hasn't even been passed, I'd like to see the pass/veto vote at least. I'm in another league where the rule is the same, but you MAY receive another team's pick to replace your own, and it works very successfully. I really hope that didn't sound douchey, I just want to get this passed, as I'm sure any of you would if it were your deal.
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Greg Schiano
Former Grizzlies GM
Rookie
Posts: 133
Oct 18, 2013 2:51:44 GMT
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Post by Greg Schiano on May 22, 2013 5:37:52 GMT
If this doesn't go through for one of many reasons, It's unbelievable. This trade isn't specified clearly, and I worked within my rights to even get that. I don't want picks, I don't value them. I trade them away when the value is right. Everyone keeps doubting my GM ability, but damn, let me work
If you want to make an example, shut it down. Otherwise, do it on the next one and clearly state the rule. It's asinine.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Apr 23, 2024 7:46:39 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2013 15:19:57 GMT
I don't want picks, I don't value them. The Spurs GM thought the same thing and look at him and his team now.
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Post by Ian Noble on May 22, 2013 15:50:59 GMT
I feel that the rule should stay and this trade should remain illegal. I suppose the best approach is to examine the reason why we have the rule. This is the first time the rule's legitimacy has been challenged. As a veteran commissioner I know that absolutely any and every GM can potentially leave one day, and it's even more likely that they will leave if they trade away all the draft picks they possess. San Antonio Spurs as an ExampleTeams like San Antonio have lost all their draft picks and don't even have the talent to show for it, which is a failure upon us as a committee. If JR Wiles and his incredible enthusiasm left us I really don't know how long it would take to replace him in the Spurs job with such a poor roster and no future prospects. Alternatively you could say that since the Spurs own Brooklyn's 2014 1st Rounder, surely that should count as a first rounder and San Antonio should be allowed to trade away all of their own 1st Round picks, since they own one of Brooklyn's? Brooklyn is a playoff calibre team though, that pick is not likely to make a huge difference to San Antonio's prospects, whereas if they had kept hold of it it's clearly going to be a Top 5 pick in the Wiggins/Parker sweepstakes that could revitalise the franchise in one move, making the Spurs a free agent destination as well as anything else.
So whilst the rule would seem to be potentially flexible in instances where teams own other first rounders I think it's most important to realize that the rule acts as a kind of insurance if/when a GM really ruins their prospects. Alternatively we could assess the likelihood of a 1st Rounder being a high pick on a trade-by-trade basis, but I think that could become a messy business, too subjective and for picks that are happening three years in the future it's really impossible to tell how they will pan out considering all the trades that go on each year. The rule's existence means that if a team trades away all its talent it will still have future prospects no matter what, and a first round pick when you're a cellar dweller is really the only way for a team to drag itself out of the dungeon. The rule is a sort of last-chance-insurance that protects the league from destroying itself through inactive GMs and as such it's my opinion that we should keep the rule.
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Post by Blake Bowman on May 22, 2013 18:46:42 GMT
I understand, but he's giving a pick of a team that's one of the best in the West for SASs pick, which you have stated, he doesn't own his own and has no talent. So if anything the pick in the trade makes more sense for him. But I respect your decision, Ian, thanks for the quick explanation too.
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Greg Schiano
Former Grizzlies GM
Rookie
Posts: 133
Oct 18, 2013 2:51:44 GMT
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Post by Greg Schiano on May 22, 2013 19:17:32 GMT
I understand, but he's giving a pick of a team that's one of the best in the West for SASs pick, which you have stated, he doesn't own his own and has no talent. So if anything the pick in the trade makes more sense for him. But I respect your decision, Ian, thanks for the quick explanation too. This. And Charles Bowen, how dare you accuse me of being like San Antonio. I think what I've done for Memphis should stand that I'm not leaving. Hell, during my tenure in this league, I've dealt with actual homelessness and continued to check in. You want to talk about devotion?
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Chris Mullin
Golden State Warriors
Starter
Posts: 1,303
Feb 19, 2024 21:58:28 GMT
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Post by Chris Mullin on May 22, 2013 19:31:25 GMT
Why don't you guys just take the picks out of the trade?
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Greg Schiano
Former Grizzlies GM
Rookie
Posts: 133
Oct 18, 2013 2:51:44 GMT
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Post by Greg Schiano on May 22, 2013 19:53:26 GMT
Why don't you guys just take the picks out of the trade? Blake and myself are working out just taking the picks out, but if that happens would it still be passable or is it still NOT FAIR?
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Post by Ian Noble on May 23, 2013 20:59:04 GMT
You'll have to repost it and find out guys, I don't speak for the entire committee.
Until then I'm moving this to the Rejects.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Apr 23, 2024 7:46:39 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2013 21:00:59 GMT
And Charles Bowen, how dare you accuse me of being like San Antonio. I think what I've done for Memphis should stand that I'm not leaving. Hell, during my tenure in this league, I've dealt with actual homelessness and continued to check in. You want to talk about devotion? I never questioned your devotion, but rather am stating why the TC decided to put that rule into place.
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