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Post by Ian Noble on Jan 4, 2019 11:44:41 GMT
Since it was just proposed that James Harden be raised to a 98 I'd like to get GMs insights into how we rate historically great players. 99 RatingI am a little torn on whether a player not named Jordan or Lebron should ever reach 99 OVR rating. Should 99 be a rating that can only be reached via a decade or more of sustained GOAT performances? Should 99 be a plateau almost never reached? Even if a player like prime-Shaq is playing like he did before he left the Lakers, I'm not sure we should consider that enough to reach a 99 rating. A 99 rating should hold that level of importance. On the other hand there are 99 ratings and 99 ratings... because although it is possible to have a 99 Overall rating in-game, there is also a 'Player Value' rating which, when it reaches roughly 1600, gives a 99 Overall rating, but 'Player Value' can go much higher if you set every individual player rating to 99 by themselves. So there is technically such a thing as an elite 99 and a lesser 99 rating. Other 95+ RatingsI'll come back to this, I'm at work right now, but it might be beneficial to draw up an all-time ratings system. Would Bird or Magic have reached a 97 or 98 rating? Given that it would put them on par with prime Kareem and Wilt? Is it then fair for Durant and Harden to be a 97 or 98? It's a topic for discussion I'll come back to later.
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Post by Jared Montini on Jan 4, 2019 12:12:27 GMT
Imo the players now are more talented than those of back then. It's ridiculous what guys like harden Giannis etc are doing. They deserve ratings from 95-97. As for the 98 and 99 ratings, I'd say keep those for the top 10-15 players ever. I have Durant in my top 15 which is why I think he's a 98. Doncic will be the next 99 imo.
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Jan 4, 2019 12:23:29 GMT
I don't think Harden is historically great. He runs in and flails his arms and then shoots 24 FTa a game. He's also a pretty good passer and has improved to not trash water on defense.
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Kevin Hollis
Former Thunder GM for 7 years
All Star
Posts: 2,838
Dec 16, 2022 11:27:40 GMT
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Post by Kevin Hollis on Jan 4, 2019 13:07:17 GMT
Harden is not better than James or Durant. I don’t think anyone should be a 99 outside of lebron and mj. Yeah harden has had a crazy good run right now, but people can’t let his 5-6 game production automatically cause them to put harden over Durant and lbj. Playing o emotions.
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Post by Jerry West on Jan 4, 2019 13:16:46 GMT
It shouldn't matter if you enjoy watching a player or not, what matters it's their stats and contribution to their team.
Plus this Harden form isn't something new he is averaging MORE 5 PPG THAN CURRY WHO IS SECOND, and doing it more consistently then Curry. When was the last time you saw that big a gap between number 1 and number 2 in scoring? Add to that 6 rebounds and 8.5 assists per game with 2 steals.
This is a historical offensive performance, I'm going to get hate for this but nobody in the 80's or 90's could score in today's NBA the way Harden is doing it.
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Jan 4, 2019 14:03:26 GMT
I don't think Harden is historically great. He runs in and flails his arms and then shoots 24 FTa a game. He's also a pretty good passer and has improved to not trash water on defense. This is ridiculous. Per possession harden shoots equal fts to Jordan, Jerry west, Oscar and other all time greats in their prime. This is your bias showing. Harden has had the best 3 year run of isolation scoring in nba history and is one of if not the best passer in the entire league. His step back jumper is the biggest weapon in the game and again one of the best of all time. Diminishing his greatness is beyond silly
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Jan 5, 2019 1:43:51 GMT
I don't think Harden is historically great. He runs in and flails his arms and then shoots 24 FTa a game. He's also a pretty good passer and has improved to not trash water on defense. This is ridiculous. Per possession harden shoots equal fts to Jordan, Jerry west, Oscar and other all time greats in their prime. This is your bias showing. Harden has had the best 3 year run of isolation scoring in nba history and is one of if not the best passer in the entire league. His step back jumper is the biggest weapon in the game and again one of the best of all time. Diminishing his greatness is beyond silly I'm not saying he's not good, or even not great. But Jordan also played all-NBA defense and I believe Jerry West and Oscar also did as well.
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Jan 7, 2019 12:20:25 GMT
James Harden also travels everytime he does that step back.
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